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Some of my thoughts about this issue.
Having lived in several countries on different continents, I must say that part of this expectation of NZR/WRU to act, is due to the insane importance given in NZ to sport and athletes. How athletes can be seen as role models is beyond me, but that's what 'we' expect them to be. They are supposed to be model citizens that people (esp children) look up to with respect to everything in life, including things that have nothing to do with sport.
To me that is just plain weird. A role model should be someone who has wisdom, is of exemplary behaviour and of a certain moral standard (for lack of a better word); it should be a person you can talk to and go to for advice. Usually, that is a person who has lived a bit, has experienced life and all the trouble it can give you. Someone in your own environment, such as a respected family member, someone in your church or other social environment, your teacher, and yes, it could be your rugby coach as well etc. ... but not because (s)he's a rugby coach.
A (well)known athlete, musician, artist can be an example, an inspiration to become just as successful as they are in their specific capacity. As athletes, muscians, artists etc; but not as 'persons'. Athletes, musicians, artists etc are not the people you would go to for advice on life, on what's good and bad, on decisions that have nothing to do with sport, music, art etc., unless you personally know them and they are those respected people I referred to earlier. Seriously, why would even Richie McCaw be a role model for your kids? He can be an example if your kid wants to be a good rugby player: he can give them the inspiration to train hard and be as good a rugby player they can possibly be. But apart from that, how can they model themselves on a man they don't personally know? We have no idea what he is like in his personal life; whether he is actually a nice person in private, whether he has some wisdom to offer about life or certain problems etc etc. If we can't expect someone like Richie to be a role model, how can we expect that from any other rugby player that wears the jersey of the NZ, your Super or NPC, or even local club team? By all means, let them go into the community and to schools and junior rugby clubs. Let them give young players the motivation and advice about playing rugby and strive for a career in sport. But for everything else? No! That's not the message that should be given to kids and it's also not fair on the athletes themselves, who - especially the young ones - should be allowed to make mistakes (I'm not talking about criminal offences here) without being crucified by the media and public alike.
I'm not saying that rugby clubs/unions/players don't have any responsibility towards the community. The Chiefs 'issue' is one example where that went wrong because things were said and done in a public environment that society doesn't accept to be done, at least not in public (the homophobic comment, hiring a stripper). For clubs/unions just to look away as if it didn't happen isn't acceptable and they will need to act if things go wrong. But to me, that responsibility doesn't always, or necessarily, extend to something an individual player does in his/her private life, not wearing the team jersey.
Where I struggle is where you draw the line. If a player has assaulted someone (in case of Filipo this was proven in court), do you rip up his contract? Do you keep him on your books, but suspend him for some time? Do you let him pull on the team jersey and play like nothing happened, because it happened in private? Can you fully separate the private person from the player that represents his club?
In the case of Julian Savea (assault on his partner in private), the Canes did not suspend him but he didn't play a few games because he had "too much on his mind", dealing with what happened etc. This was before it was brought before the courts. After the diversion, nothing happened.
In the case of Losi, the Lions did nothing at all.
In the case of Guildford (Raro), the men at the receiving end of his fists didn't find it a big deal (they said they hardly felt it because he was too drunk to punch) and did't want to lodge a complaint with police; the police could not charge him; it never came before the courts, but NZ rugby suspended him for 4 months anyway and he could not play for the Crusaders until months later.
In Guildford's case it is clear that his suspension had everything to do with NZR's image, despite the fact that ZG acted as a private person, not an All Black. Would it have been different if he had 'punched' his girlfriend in private (compare Savea) and nobody had seen it happen? Would it have been different if he had punched several people in public and it had come before the courts (compare Losi), would they have sacked him instead of suspended him?
It's difficult, but as long as we keep treating rugby players and other athletes as role models and the sport as a religion; and as long as unions/clubs keep using players as ambassadors not just of their product (rugby) but also as role models, we will keep on having these cases popping up in the media now and then. Because young people will keep on making mistakes and the media love writing about it.
Sorry, that became longer than I intended, but this is just not a simple clear-cut issue.
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@WillieTheWaiter Yep, the bile being flung at Tew and the NZRU is baffling and weird. Tew is not responsible for the actions of that little creep.
And public 'remorse' doesn't mean jack shit. He could have written a letter of apology to his victims, the people who actually deserve it. The general NZ public aren't entitled to anything, no matter what they think.
Sure it's all nice happy clappy to care about the offender's future, but it's not much of a deterrent to other rugby players, or to anyone who has a nasty temper. Justice really does suck sometimes.
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Dude, what is it with you and Guildford? Are you his brother?
I was sort of with you on the "role models thing" and i have made the same point on one of the many, many "footballer behaves badly" threads we have had over the years (my stance is players are mostly responsible for how they act as rugby players, all other lessons should come from your parents).
But then it morphed in to a quick monologue about how Zac was unfairly treated in comparison because he can't fight (way to leave out some parts there as well Gus Gould).
Again, as with the thread based on that silly bint's article on Stuff, this is not a uniquely NZ thing, or even just a rugby thing. Sport means a lot to people, and favoured athletes are forgiven shit all over the world. Look at all the gangsters in the big American sports forgiven waaaay worse things than this because they can make big plays for your team. There are no shortage of league players running around with long records. Messi got done for tax fraud, got a fucking lenient sentence, do you think the people of Barcelona wanted his contract torn up?
What NZ has is a small country, with a vocal minority who have had enough of what they call the "rugby" culture, and a media willing to voice their opinions. We also have fuck all in the way of "celebrities" so sports stars it is. And rugby certainly sells things/generates clicks.
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@taniwharugby Pah. Stuff needs to up its medication.
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The fact that the head of NZ Rugby is under media attack for this pretty much sums up for me how fucking retarded this quest for mob justice has become. We (society at large) are so desperate for someone to blame, we just keep moving along the chain until we find someone to take responsibility. Organisations just need to learn to ride it out until next week when the great unwashed will be outraged by something completely different.
On the flip side, now is a great time to invest in pitchforks and torches
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@mariner4life said in Appalling double-standard:
Dude, what is it with you and Guildford? Are you his brother?
...
But then it morphed in to a quick monologue about how Zac was unfairly treated in comparison because he can't fight (way to leave out some parts there as well Gus Gould).Dude, chill! I just couldn't remember another case of an All Black doing something very stupid and receiving a relatively long suspension for something that never came before the courts. That's the only reason I mentioned Guildford. I didn't argue anywhere in my post that he was unfairly treated in comparison, I just pointed out there were differences in circumstances (no charges, no court case) and that there was a difference in how unions have responded, which may or may not have to do with the fact that something happened in public or because the person involved was an All Black or not.
Again, as with the thread based on that silly bint's article on Stuff, this is not a uniquely NZ thing, or even just a rugby thing. Sport means a lot to people, and favoured athletes are forgiven shit all over the world.
I never said it didn't happen anywhere else or only in rugby, but I have lived in countries where sport isn't as sacred as it is here and where sports people don't get that much attention (some small tabloid excluded) for things other than their performance on the field etc.
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It's the way the world works ... and rightly so. Man at the top takes the blame for everything. It comes with the big job and of course, the big salary.
I didn't see the interview, but Tew should be street smart enough to be able to handle anything Paul Henry can throw at him. If he can't, then it's a fair question if he's the right man for the job.
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@MajorRage said in Appalling double-standard:
It's the way the world works ... and rightly so. Man at the top takes the blame for everything. It comes with the big job and of course, the big salary.
I didn't see the interview, but Tew should be street smart enough to be able to handle anything Paul Henry can throw at him. If he can't, then it's a fair question if he's the right man for the job.
you can see it online FB paul henry show - wasn't really an interview - just him yelling at him and cutting him off.
just crazy - you'd think it was Tew that got him pi$$ed and sent him out on the streets!
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Interesting - comment on FB
Paul Henry forgot to mention it was her male friends that picked on his older brother with racial slurs and threw the first punch paul Henry didn't mention that she bottled his brother from behind and tried to gauge his eyes out when the rest of her group jumped his brother two against six he helped his brother out and when they all got a hiding the rang the cops. Word from some one that was actualy there the trouble maker in her group is known for stirring up crap all the time hence the reason why the judge made the right call they were provoked there should be some video footage and it will show she came running in with a bottle went they out numbered his brother before he jumped in. Not for violence but if you and your friends decide to get drunk and think it's ok to start making trouble you better think if you don't want nothing don't start nothing
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@WillieTheWaiter who knows exactly what happened but it is pretty obvious the accusers are not the "innocent victims" they are claiming to be in the media. As I said multiple times earlier, we've only heard a very one-sided version of events so far, and everyone has thrash wanked themselves into a frenzy over it.
The major difference between this case and others is that these people went crying to the media, whereas other victims have accepted the courts decision and moved on with their lives.
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I used to like Henry, but now he is even more of a big mouth with a big pedestal.
Tew watch:
He told Paul Henry on TV3 he would contact the victims "before he left the country" to join the All Blacks in Argentina for their Rugby Championship match this weekend.
Tew departed late Wednesday morning with attack victim Greg Morgan still waiting to hear from him. "It's still early days so I'll just keep waiting and see if they [New Zealand Rugby] do end up contacting me," he said.
Steve Tew has been slammed for NZ Rugby's handling of the Losi Filipo assault case.
Great to see the keyboard warriors out in force still, wireless mice being thrown everywhere.
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says 'morning'
Maybe Tew sent him an e-mail and it went into his junkmail box?
I hope this servies notice to all corporate employers that they are expected to apologise to victims of incidents that pre-date their employment.
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Appalling double-standard:
Interesting - comment on FB
Paul Henry forgot to mention it was her male friends that picked on his older brother with racial slurs and threw the first punch paul Henry didn't mention that she bottled his brother from behind and tried to gauge his eyes out when the rest of her group jumped his brother two against six he helped his brother out and when they all got a hiding the rang the cops. Word from some one that was actualy there the trouble maker in her group is known for stirring up crap all the time hence the reason why the judge made the right call they were provoked there should be some video footage and it will show she came running in with a bottle went they out numbered his brother before he jumped in. Not for violence but if you and your friends decide to get drunk and think it's ok to start making trouble you better think if you don't want nothing don't start nothing
But the judge didn't say we aren't letting Filipo off because he was provoked. He said he was letting him off because he was good at rugby.
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@hydro11 I'd argue it was more that it would adversely affect his career, which happened to be rugby....whether the same rule had applied if this guy was a promising swimmer, lawyer or something else is probably more the point.
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@No-Quarter We don't know the whole story but I assume the police do via independent witnesses. None of the reports have stated that any of the 4 were charged with any offence.
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@taniwharugby said in Appalling double-standard:
@hydro11 I'd argue it was more that it would adversely affect his career, which happened to be rugby....whether the same rule had applied if this guy was a promising swimmer, lawyer or something else is probably more the point.
Yeah, and if the conviction means they will no longer have that promising career, well the judge can often rule that the punishment outweights the crime as it's a massive loss in earnings etc.
What would help is if they published the judgement from the trial, instead of just the judgement from the sentencing. That would properly explain the sentencing by the judge, including all of the mitigating factors.
Appalling double-standard