All Blacks v Ireland II

booboo

Well ... watching BeIN Sport's round up of the Test matches from overnight it seems green is the new black.

Having just thrashed Canada all they have to do is turn up next week ...

Ok that's a little overstated but it will be a fascinating clash.

So what do the good guys do to fix up the fuck up from Soldier Field?

My conjecture as to selections as follows.

Don't expect too many surprises. Mainly the bench mix.

Not 100% sure on injuries so let me know if I'm wrong.

Props.
The top four on rotation. LH starting option open due to Moody's propensity to give away penalties. Mind you it might be good to have the option to drag the guy should a YC loom.

Franks to start as Charlie is a better impact benchie.

Coles starting. Taylor bench. Duh.

BBBR and Barrett.
JK, Cane, Read.

The interest for me is around the mix on the bench to cover locks and loosie.

Given the JK experiment did not go 100% to plan I'd be tempted to have a lock option. Either Paddy T - who would have benefitted from a couple of games in a row - or Luatua over Squire. You guys who watched v Italy will have to tell us Aus based Ferners if eithef of those is an option.

I expect Ardie as back up 7.

I'd pick Smith on reputation. How did he look last night? Regardless AS and TJP in the XXXIII.

BB
ALB
MF

JS
ID
BFA

Remaining bench:
Cruds
Ioane Jr would be my choice.

Bring it on ...

KiwiMurph

I think Whitelock is on track for this game too.

I'd start Perenara. I'd also start Naholo over Savea but I can't see them doing that.

booboo

@KiwiMurph said in Ireland II:

I think Whitelock is on track for this game too.

I'd start Perenara. I'd also start Naholo over Savea but I can't see them doing that.

Re Whitelock - assumed he was stil crocked. Throws another curve ball into the selection mix.

Tim

Crockett
Coles
Faumuina
Retallick
Kaino
Cane
Read, on reputation only
TJP
Barrett
ALB
Fekitoa
Dagg
Smith

mariner4life

I would still pick Smith at 9

booboo

@Tim said in Ireland II:

Crockett

Coles

Faumuina

Retallick

Kaino

Cane

Read, on reputation only

TJP

Barrett

ALB

Fekitoa

Dagg

Smith

i started close to that then flipped on starting props. And tried to workout the bench mix. And tossed a coin on 11.

taniwharugby

MY team would be (assuming all are fit)

Crocket, Coles, Franks
BBBR, Whitelock
Kaino, Read, Cane
Smith, BB
ALB, Fekitoa
Naholo, Smith, Dagg

Taylor, Moody, Faumuina, PT, Squire, TJP,Cruden, ??

Not sure who to play here, Ioane?

Donsteppa

I'd probably go with:

Crockett
Coles
Franks
Retallick
Whitelock/Barrett
Kaino
Cane
Read (similar to Tim, with a big kick up the backside after his Irish performance)
TJP
Sopoanga (can't keep ignoring the goalkicking with how tight this game could be, BB has an offseason ahead to find a good technical advisor. Cruden an offseason to find a technical advisor to remove Annoying Chipkick Disease)
Naholo
ALB
Fekitoa
Dagg
B Smith

16 Taylor, 17. Moody 18. Faumuina 19 Barrett/Whitelock 20 Savea 21 A Smith 22 Barrett 23 Cruden/Savea

With some reservations over the last back reserve on the bench, and with an acknowledgement to Todd that he could feel hard done to, and BB would back to his super sub role this week before starting against France next week. Moody lucky not to be left right out, purely on my selectorial grounds of bitterness and spite

I reckon TJP deserves the starting spot on 2016 form, Smith has had a mixed year for the AB's even prior to whatever "gate" we're calling the recent incident.

kiwiinmelb

There is a part of me that thinks maybe Cruden to start , going with a bit more structure early when the game is possibly in more of an arm wrestle stage .

But i cant make my mind up with that , because I counter that thought with wanting Barrett on the field for as many minutes as possible. So I think they will run with Barrett to start at 10 , and moving to FB later barring injuries.

Halfbacks , Smith at his best yes for me , but the coaches will know more than us though who is in the best mental and physical space and will run with that I would imagine.

Maybe Savea and Naholo will get a start each with the two remaining games , toss a coin for this one .

taniwharugby

@Donsteppa I think the bulk of the starting 15 picks itself, but with a few tweaks based on form and I guess whats going on in the camp, positions potentially open:

Loosehead - Moody or Crockett
Halfback - TJP or Smith
10 BB or Cruden or Sopoaga
left wing - Naholo or Savea

pakman

Not much to add on starting 15. For me I'd go with Cruden, Crockett and Dagg. Cruden's game management is superior to Barrett's, who was best at this when he had Crotty outside him. Crockett bolsters ruck, maul and carrying, whilst not weakening scrum much. My read is that Savea (J) is a lock in. Dagg is in good form, safe under high ball and offers dual first receiver option.
As perhaps noted above, the biggest query is BBBR's starting partner. He was a little off the pace and will be better for the run. If selectors follow same logic Sam W will be on bench. Either way not clear which way selectors will swing. Pat T was much better this week whilst Barrett (S) was tidy. I think ruck ball is the key to smashing Ireland, and on balance (and subject to watching replay) I'd be inclined to go with the latter.

Have a hunch JK may not be 100%. If so, I could see Squire starting, with Savea (A) on bench. If not, am slightly bemused Cane had full 80, so slight chance Todd starts with Savea/Squire contesting bench. Something doesn't quite add up!!

Other talking point is third back reserve. I have to assume Seta T is back up and will be lucky to see minutes this tour, in particular if Crotty fit for France. So easy choice is Naholo. Covers both wings and midfield in an emergency. With Dagg, BFA and Barrett in the 23 full back well and truly covered.

P.S. expect to see more of short inside balls against Ireland.

westcoastie

Selection time got real interesting for this one...

Massive fan of Beaudy - but for me whoever starts comes down to whichever halfback the selectors feel is the best fit for this game. I feel the consensus is TJP should have started the Chicago game, and Smith sometimes gets monstered.
Hansen will really earn his money this week, making assumptions on what Ireland will do and where they will attack us. Schmidt will know what worked well last test, and where they targetted us, but it would be folly to assume they can beat us in exactly the same areas, however they absolutely have to get to the same standard they achieved last test.

For me TJP starts, which means Beauden starts. TJP doesn't have any combo with Cruden, whereas the Smith/Cruden number goes back to Manawatu and plenty of tests, thus those are our bench guys.

Dagg definitely comes back in. Its a coin-toss between Savea & Naholo - but maybe Savea gets the nod. Ben Smith at the back.

ALB & Fekitoa start, I'd personally love for Rieko to get the bench nod as a winger, I reckon hes got the head on his shoulders for the big time. Ben Smith to cover midfield

Forward pack is straight forward enough I reckon. Retallick and Scott Barrett - I think PT is great for impact - just not sure about combat in the trenches.

Kaino, Cane & Read. If Jerome Kaino is injured - could they go a Cane, Savea, Read - 6,7,8 ?

Franks, Coles, Moody to start, Crockett, Taylor, Faumuina to close it out.

so...
Franks, Coles, Moody
Retallick and Scott Barrett
Kaino, Cane & Read
TJP & BB
ALB, Fekitoa
Savea, Dagg, BFA

Crockett, Taylor, Faumuina
Whitelock
A.Savea
Smith, Cruden, Ioane

westcoastie

Whos the Ref?

chimoaus

This is the most excited I have been for a game since WC final. The atmosphere will be electric. I wonder how much tickets are going for on black market.

I really think BB goal kicking could haunt us if he starts. With this pressure I just don't trust him and we may need all the points we can get. I read an article somewhere which stated BB was rated the worst kicker out of all the top countries.

gt12

Although he often overdoes them, Cruden's chip kicks often help create doubt in a rush defense. I thought he did it wellish against Italy. I'd be tempted to start him again, especially with ALB at 12.

So:

Moody (better be better), Coles, Franks
Retallick, S. Barrett
Kaino, Cane & Read
A. Smith, Cruden
ALB, Fekitoa
Savea (somewhat lucky), Dagg, BFA at 15

Crockett, Taylor, Faumuina, Squire, A.Savea
TJP, B Barrett, Ioane or Tamanivalu

Bet I've got at least 5 of those wrong, compared to what will be picked.

Siam

@gt12 said in Ireland II:

Although he often overdoes them, Cruden's chip kicks often help create doubt in a rush defense. I thought he did it wellish against Italy. I'd be tempted to start him again, especially with ALB at 12.

Yes.
They aren't a guaranteed try scoring opportunity and shouldn't be treated as such, rather a component of the "chess match" designed to reap benefits later on

Siam

Should reward Crockett with a start after last night. Depends what the scrum gurus reckon I guess but a good message to both Crockett and Moody if Crockett gets the nod

Do you give Beaudy a chance at redemption or are selection strategies not so forgiving? Perhaps solace in the impact role for Beaudy off the bench

Play Barrett if Whitlock ain't fit. Bad luck Romero

Izzy and Naholo on a wing, if Julien asks just mention running right behind a goaline instead of left into open pastures

TJP to start - no shit sherlock

Who's left in midfield? ALB and feki will be ok

Basically all the intrigue will be at ten and the two forward subs not in the front row

Crockett
Coles
Franks
BBBR
Whitelock/Barrett
Kaino
Cane
Read
TJP
Cruden
ALB
Feki
Izzy
Naholo
BFA

Charlie
Cody
Joe
Liam
Arid
Aaron
Beaudy
Jules

Bones

Stands to reason that the dirty dirties from this week will be playing next week.

Whitelock was out running around for a good 40 minutes before the game, looked ok to me.

Is Crotty injured still? He was running around playing touch at the end I'm sure.

Unite

@westcoastie Jaco Peyper (SARU)

westcoastie

@gt12 Whitelock over Squire - but this or swap 9 & 10's

ACT Crusader

I can't see Savea being dropped after not being in the 23 against Italy. It's a Naholo v Dagg call to start. I'd start Dagg and have Naholo on the bench.

ALB and Fekitoa unless if Crotty is fit, I'd go with Crotty and ALB.

Smith and Barrett. TJP and Cruden on the bench. I would love to see Lima start against France.

Moody, Coles and Franks pick themselves. Likewise Crockett, Taylor and Charlie pick themselves for the bench.

Kaino, Cane and Read - all 3 need a rocket because they were all poor in Chicago. Savea on the bench.

Brodie back a certainty. If Whitelock is fit he plays and Tuipoluto on the bench.

Stargazer

What a bollocks that B Barrett needs redemption. He's by far the best 10 we have now, so he should get the start. As has been said several times by the coaches, B Barrett struggled with his health and he needed a rest. He's had a week of rest; if he is fit to play, he should start. Hopefully his kicking is better, but in all other respects, he's way better than Cruden at the moment. Also, v Ireland in Chicago, Beauden only mist one kick out of five, so his kicking problems shouldn't be exaggerated.

TJP has been better the last few games, most notably in the 2nd half of the game v Ireland in Chicago, and also deserves the start, regardless of who plays at 10. Won't mind if Smith starts though.

Also, people who keep on mentioning Romano: is it even certain he has returned to the squad? For me, S Barrett ahead of Tuipulotu.

I think this comes close to the line-up v Ireland in Dublin:

Crockett - Coles - Franks
Retallick - S Barrett
Kaino (if healthy)/Squire - Cane/Todd** - Read
Perenara - B Barrett
Lienert-Brown - Fekitoa (unless Crotty if fit to play)
Savea - Dagg - B Smith (at 15)

Taylor - Moody - Faumuina
Whitelock (if healthy)/Tuipulotu - Squire (if not starting)/Dixon - Todd (if not starting)/A Savea
A Smith - Cruden/Sopoaga - Naholo (unless Crotty starts; in that case Fekitoa)

**not sure about Cane or Todd. Normally, I'd expect them to start Cane, but due to the fact that he hasn't been convincing since his return from injury & played 80 minutes v Italy, Todd might get the nod as he has been steadily improving this year, was an absolute beast in Bledisloe III & there's not much between them at the moment. A Savea didn't seem physically up to it against the Irish in Chicago, so I'd hesitate to even name him on the bench.

mariner4life

I'm just fucking astounded the world's premier halfback has one bad game and everyone wants him dropped.

Siam

@mariner4life said in Ireland II:

I'm just fucking astounded the world's premier halfback has one bad game and everyone wants him dropped.

Hear ya but the tackling and muscle around the ruck are a good argument and an area the paddies exploited last time

The plan will be to smash those emerald isle fuckers this time won't it?

Toilet boy ain't got his swagger back yet either IMO

nostrildamus

@Siam I thought A Smith played well against Italy?
I am still stunned how good ALB is, at either 12 or 13.
I thought Naholo actually had a good match and is defensively more reliable than Savea but they'll pick the latter and put some pressure on him to perform.
Cruden, Barrett, Sopoaga-a good problem to have!

Am also tempted to think Patrick is better off the bench..

Siam

@nostrildamus
Yeah, he did. He was quick with the pass, made good breaks. He added a lot vs Italy

I'd go for Perenara for the physicality v Ireland. May it be so again that when facing a recent conquering team the ABs fucken pile in physically and willingly. Smash the feckers. I think TJP is better suited ti start to compliment this style. Nugget for the last 25-30 mins to run 'em around would be ideal I reckon

Derm McCrum

Hmmmm.

profitius

The Ireland side will probably remain unchanged. Peter O'Mahony will be the only change in the squad and whether or not he starts is the question.

I don't think we (Ireland) will win this one. There are a few good reasons. Obviously the ABs will be firm favourites but from an Ireland point of view, everything went to plan in Chicago and thats unlikely to happen twice in a row. Hansen will be analysing the match and will strengthen areas the ABs got caught out, like the maul, not giving penalties away, garryowens etc. And in Chicago the ABs still scored 4 tries.

Ireland can still make it a tough game and they'll do the same again... mainly not give the ball away too easily. The Ireland defence is good and even the forwards are athletic and fairly fit. More mobile than the Australians and South Africans while probably being more physical than the Argentinians. Andy Farrell has made a massive difference since taking over in the summer and that might have caught the ABs off guard in the first test. It was interesting to see the ABs kick-pass the ball so much against the Italians. It was almost like they were practising it. I'd say we might see a bit of that next week.

So I would say business for the ABs but sport can throw up surprises. The weather will be a bit different than it was in Chicago.

Billy Tell

@profitius said in Ireland II:

The Ireland side will probably remain unchanged. Peter O'Mahony will be the only change in the squad and whether or not he starts is the question.

I don't think we (Ireland) will win this one. There are a few good reasons. Obviously the ABs will be firm favourites but from an Ireland point of view, everything went to plan in Chicago and thats unlikely to happen twice in a row. Hansen will be analysing the match and will strengthen areas the ABs got caught out, like the maul, not giving penalties away, garryowens etc. And in Chicago the ABs still scored 4 tries.

Ireland can still make it a tough game and they'll do the same again... mainly not give the ball away too easily. The Ireland defence is good and even the forwards are athletic and fairly fit. More mobile than the Australians and South Africans while probably being more physical than the Argentinians. Andy Farrell has made a massive difference since taking over in the summer and that might have caught the ABs off guard in the first test. It was interesting to see the ABs kick-pass the ball so much against the Italians. It was almost like they were practising it. I'd say we might see a bit of that next week.

So I would say business for the ABs but sport can throw up surprises. The weather will be a bit different than it was in Chicago.

It's a cliché, but Ireland don't do "not the underdog" very well. So on the one hand, expectation will be ramped up, on the other hand surely NZ won't play as badly as they did in Chicago?

If I were Hansen, I would play some territory (Ireland don't remotely have the same ability to strike long-distance tries as NZ) put pressure on the Irish halves (hopefully resulting in Sexton spitting the dummy), don't give away silly penalties that allow Ireland to kick to the corner and maul, compete better on the high ball etc.

I think the match could be very close though, especially if Ireland start well.

rotated

@mariner4life said in Ireland II:

I'm just fucking astounded the world's premier halfback has one bad game and everyone wants him dropped.

He got hooked against the Boks earlier in the year for being average and in the mean time TJP has taken massive strides. His returns post the Wales series and Bledisloe I have been middling.

That said there are some players who are core to the team and you have to give them every chance to fight their way out of it. Smith deserves the big stage and another crack at it.

reprobate

@mariner4life said in Ireland II:

I'm just fucking astounded the world's premier halfback has one bad game and everyone wants him dropped.

total knee-jerk. smith is the best halfback in the world, in all contexts except our forwards getting smashed. are we really willing to concede that that is going to happen?

reprobate

crockett was very good against italy. regardless of moody's shit in the first one, i have thought crockett should be getting the lion's share of those minutes on ability for some time. why not moody for 20 then crockett for 60?

Crucial

@reprobate said in Ireland II:

crockett was very good against italy. regardless of moody's shit in the first one, i have thought crockett should be getting the lion's share of those minutes on ability for some time. why not moody for 20 then crockett for 60?

Crockett was awesome from the pieces I saw and I understand the scrum was good against a strong Italian pack

reprobate

@Crucial yeah he was really good. moody scrums solidly, but he has nothing on crockett anywhere else, and it is not often crockett lets the scrum down, for a few years now. just makes sense to me to have the better player on the field for longer.

Donsteppa

I'm fucking astounded that people have forgotten Aaron Smith vs Argentina, though that wouldn't tally with; bleating about just "one poor game", or most importantly ignoring TJP's 2016 form, (or blaming everything on two cretins making a recording.)

Either way, it looks like the days of Smith playing 75 minutes for the AB's are less likely... so it's essentially people getting fucking astounded at which side of a 50/30 minute split you argue for.

No Quarter

@reprobate said in Ireland II:

crockett was very good against italy. regardless of moody's shit in the first one, i have thought crockett should be getting the lion's share of those minutes on ability for some time. why not moody for 20 then crockett for 60?

Agree, I think Crockett is in his prime now. Scrummaging more then solid and he's a fucking wrecking ball around the paddock. He's a great impact player but I'd rather he start.

taniwharugby

isn't this what everyone has been wanting around AB selections? People were tired of the team picking itself, so much stability, so much winning...

Donsteppa

@taniwharugby said in Ireland II:

isn't this what everyone has been wanting around AB selections? People were tired of the team picking itself, so much stability, so much winning...

Arguing selections is always half the fun. Especially when my team doesn't have to actually take to the park.

Tordah

Crockett needs to be in every matchday 23:

Wins..Draws....Losses....%
54.......1................1...... 97.32

And he was great against Italy, scrum was superb and his running and support play is incredible for a prop

ACT Crusader

@taniwharugby said in Ireland II:

isn't this what everyone has been wanting around AB selections? People were tired of the team picking itself, so much stability, so much winning...

Is it too early to state what the actual team will be? Naahhhh

W. Crockett
C. Taylor
O. Franks
L. Romano
S. Whitelock
S. Barrett
M. Todd
K. Read
T. Lander
T. Cane
T. Blue
R. Crotty
A. Lienart-Brown
I. Dagg
D. McKenzie

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All Blacks v Ireland II