1993 Lions tour
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Someone has posted highlights of the entire 1993 Lions tour on youtube. Including all the provincial matches.
I think this might have been posted on TSF a couple of years ago but its worthy of its own thread. Particularly as it seems the Sky pop up channel only has rights to the 2005 tour
The VHS rip quality improves after the first few minutes
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Special memory for me as first every road trip to the final test with my Dad as one of the boys ... few beers in the car, and probably about 5,000 mentions of the word "fuck".
A coming-of-age moment.
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@Duluth Thanks for posting that, some great footage. A few stand out things, Ieuen Evans was on fire in that series, how many bombs did Gavin Hastings drop? And Zinzan Brooke had an even bigger melon than I remembered.
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The third test was my first ever test. Awesome first.
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Cheers @Duluth for the clips
Forgotten how Foxy dug us out of that BIG hole in Chch
Made me think of all the close losses the Lions have had at all 3 countries (Sth Africa games spring to mind too).
Getting ahead of things but I can see the next Lions to SA being a bit of a changing of the guard type scenario.
Pretty strong Lions side in 93
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Nice, I think I've still got those videos somewhere in storage back home.
That Magpies v Lions game was awesome. I went to the 83 one as well and we sucked, so it was awesome to see Hewitt and co kick their butts.
What's funny is the minimal focus on Richards stomping on Bunce. If that was today there would be a lot more focus on it, TBF if it was the other way around the NH press would have turned it into the evilist act of 1993.
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Coached AND captained by Scotsmen. Sigh, those were the days.
I remember they came to train at my school. Martin Bayfield had to duck some low flying aircraft.
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@Catogrande said in 1993 Lions tour:
A few stand out things...
British Lions 1993 Tour Part 1
Vs. NZ Maori
15:50 - or thereabouts...
Maori winger #11 Allen Prince sprints down touchline giving a hospitable in-your-face middle-finger to the Lions cover defence on his way to scoring a try.
What stands out to me is comms never mentioned, a stand-out again 'cos we were probly using two fingers back then before kiwi culture became more absorbed by American/Hollywood influence. Prince was surfing a New Wave.
I reckon if Prince had tried to do the same today talk-radio & social media would blow up and he would have been subjected to heaps of tsk-tsk scrutiny (see Nepia's comment above re: Dean Richards stomping Frank Bunce's ear off) and have to do the tail between legs apology tour on tv.
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@Nepia said in 1993 Lions tour:
Nice, I think I've still got those videos somewhere in storage back home.
That Magpies v Lions game was awesome. I went to the 83 one as well and we sucked, so it was awesome to see Hewitt and co kick their butts.
Same for me with Waikato. Thrashed in 1983 (Ollie Campbell got a bucketload of points) but returned the favour in spades in 1993. That midweek Lions team played like they didn't want to be there for the last provincial game, except for Bumface.
@MN5 Peter Wright - one of the worst modern-day Lions players ever.
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@Bovidae said in 1993 Lions tour:
@Nepia said in 1993 Lions tour:
Nice, I think I've still got those videos somewhere in storage back home.
That Magpies v Lions game was awesome. I went to the 83 one as well and we sucked, so it was awesome to see Hewitt and co kick their butts.
Same for me with Waikato. Thrashed in 1983 (Ollie Campbell got a bucketload of points) but returned the favour in spades in 1993. That midweek Lions team played like they didn't want to be there for the last provincial game, except for Bumface.
@MN5 Peter Wright - one of the worst modern-day Lions players ever.
Haha. They called him 'teapot' on the tour cos he always had his hands on his hips as opposed to actually playing dynamic rugby.
I'd argue Damian Cronin and Andy Reed were even worse. Gav Hastings was an awesome captain though and his bro did ok before getting injured.
I could be wrong but I think it may have been an all Scottish tight 5 vs Waikato? How embarassing. Scotland went so far downhill when Jeffrey, Calder and Sole retired all about the same time.
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@Bovidae said in 1993 Lions tour:
Same for me with Waikato.
That try can't even remember who scored it featuring Mitch striding through a gap and offloading was a thing of beauty.
That midweek Lions team played like they didn't want to be there for the last provincial game, except for Bumface.
Bumface had a cheeky smile on his face in the post-match interview.
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LOved watching Doug Te Puni score that try from the grass banks, dont recall seeing that interview with him before, classic!
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@taniwharugby said in 1993 Lions tour:
LOved watching Doug Te Puni score that try from the grass banks, dont recall seeing that interview with him before, classic!
What a good effort, he outpaced a halfback!
I think Gav Hastings got in a bit of shit at home for pointing out that his midweek countrymen were fucken poor. Apparently there was a massive divide between the midweekers and test players. The former got aquainted with more than a few pubs by the sounds of things...
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@MN5 Yes
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@Salacious-Crumb said in 1993 Lions tour:
Prince's move would have been better had they (the Maori) not lost. It is still stuck in my mind as one of the most pathetic things I've seen a player do. And I've watch Chris Ashton play.
As I recall it he got a fair bit of stick at the time, less for the finger, more for doing to finger & then losing.
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@gollum said in 1993 Lions tour:
@Salacious-Crumb said in 1993 Lions tour:
Prince's move would have been better had they (the Maori) not lost. It is still stuck in my mind as one of the most pathetic things I've seen a player do. And I've watch Chris Ashton play.
As I recall it he got a fair bit of stick at the time, less for the finger, more for doing to finger & then losing.
Yeah, watching those highlights he got made to look stupid a couple of times too, so not all too smart.
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@Damo said in 1993 Lions tour:
The third test was my first ever test. Awesome first.
The first was mine.
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You could have quite comfortably landed a jet on any one of the waikato frontrowers heads.
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Also has anyone ever made running fast look as awkward & painful as Walter Little? Yes, Lee Stensness.
He was sensational in that 3rd test, but jeez... its like watching someone in a Vauxhall Viva try to let rip at the lights.
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@gollum said in 1993 Lions tour:
Also has anyone ever made running fast look as awkward & painful as Walter Little? Yes, Lee Stensness.
He was sensational in that 3rd test, but jeez... its like watching someone in a Vauxhall Viva try to let rip at the lights.
Stainless Stensness was certainly no Alama the charmer Ieremia when it came to putting in the big hits.
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He was however the answer to a question on a UC Berkeley materials science class' final exam.
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This thread and the 2005 one have whetted my appetite and I've managed to source some highlights of the 1971 series. Watching the highlights of the third test gave me just about the best commentary moment I've seen and heard in a test match.
"And there's Joseph, and he tripped over a dog believe it or not".
Sure enough there was a dog on the field and at one point some young kid came on the field to get their dog back during a break for a line out. No one batted an eyelid.. Fantastic.
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I had forgotten how nippy Barnes was.
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@Disgusted-of-TW said in 1993 Lions tour:
I had forgotten how nippy Barnes was.
You are referring to the dog?
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@Catogrande said in 1993 Lions tour:
This thread and the 2005 one have whetted my appetite and I've managed to source some highlights of the 1971 series. Watching the highlights of the third test gave me just about the best commentary moment I've seen and heard in a test match.
"And there's Joseph, and he tripped over a dog believe it or not".
Sure enough there was a dog on the field and at one point some young kid came on the field to get their dog back during a break for a line out. No one batted an eyelid.. Fantastic.
71 series was the first Lions one I really followed - as in scrapbook listened to every game. Went to the Maori and 4th test. Dawes, John and Gibson visited my school
Great memories for a young in - even if the result sort of sucked
Since them only missed one Lions test at EP (83 when I was making myself very popular in London by successfully predicting the 4-0 sweep)
TBH we were bloody lucky in in 77 when the Lions forwards owned us but poor coaching and unimaginative backs plus a shocking inter did for the Lions - although it was all on until Knight scored at the end of the 4th test
93 could have gone either way in the test series but 83 and 95 were just disasters for the Lions - although the fans didn't seem to mind - full credit.
Will miss another one this year as only have tickets to 3rd Test
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@dogmeat said in 1993 Lions tour:
71 series was the first Lions one I really followed - as in scrapbook listened to every game. Went to the Maori and 4th test. Dawes, John and Gibson visited my school
Great memories for a young in - even if the result sort of sucked
The 1971 tour was before my time but I was interested to read Phil Gifford's opinion piece on the tour, and in particular the myth that the Lions backs were the difference in that series.
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Had the Lions vs Waikato game on in the background just before. Geez Wayne Warlow was a big hard running winger. Did he ever play Super Rugby?
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@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Had the Lions vs Waikato game on in the background just before. Geez Wayne Warlow was a big hard running winger. Did he ever play Super Rugby?
I don't think so. Warlow's career was winding down by the time Super rugby started although he did make a few appearances for Waikato in 1998-99 at centre. He was a big back for that era.
Warlow scored the only try for Thames Valley against the 1986 Aust team, which gives you an idea of when he started.
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Actually played against Wayne Warlow once. Was at Lions-Maoris game in 1993 at Athletic Park and remember Prince doing that, although admittedly I just chuckled at the time. Boy did that backfire though, remember the Lions being behind at halftime with Bayfield etc being shut out at lineout time but all one way traffic in the 2nd half.
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@Bovidae Nice article. As Willie-John McBride said - "Get your retaliation in first"!
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@Bovidae said in 1993 Lions tour:
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Had the Lions vs Waikato game on in the background just before. Geez Wayne Warlow was a big hard running winger. Did he ever play Super Rugby?
I don't think so. Warlow's career was winding down by the time Super rugby started although he did make a few appearances for Waikato in 1998-99 at centre. He was a big back for that era.
Warlow scored the only try for Thames Valley against the 1986 Aust team, which gives you an idea of when he started.
to be fair some of the Lions backs looked pretty miniscule in comparison, a far cry from what we'll see mid year!
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@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
to be fair some of the Lions backs looked pretty miniscule in comparison, a far cry from what we'll see mid year!
Owen Farrell & Jonathan Joseph are pretty small for modern backs. Ditto Hogg, Halfpenny etc. There's not that many big munters in the lions frame, North, Kearney I guess, but we probably outsize them, Savea, Dagg, Naholo, SBW are all big,
Rene RangerIsia ToeavaNorm BerrymanJordie Barrett if he gets a run -
@gollum Farrell is 1.88m and 96kg (Source: Wiki) so while not being a giant is not exactly small even for these days. But yeah some of those poached boys of yours will be bigger...
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Dagg is big???
Henshaw is as is wildcard Superstar Tim Visser
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That's not big for a modern inside centre tho'. If you figure England have had Zara's husband, Barritt, Twelvetrees & Tuilagi all there prior & they were all 100kg+, the ABs had used Nonu & SBW, Wales used anyone 100kg+ who could run straight & not pass...
My point was in reply to the idea that this Lions team will be huge munters compared to the ABs (a reversal of the tour MN5 was discussing), I'm pretty sure we wil outweigh their backline.
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Dagg is big???
Yes, he really is. Certainly bigger than Halfpenny, Mike Brown, Hogg, Farrell etc
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@gollum said in 1993 Lions tour:
That's not big for a modern inside centre tho'. If you figure England have had Zara's husband, Barritt, Twelvetrees & Tuilagi all there prior & they were all 100kg+, the ABs had used Nonu & SBW, Wales used anyone 100kg+ who could run straight & not pass...
My point was in reply to the idea that this Lions team will be huge munters compared to the ABs (a reversal of the tour MN5 was discussing), I'm pretty sure we wil outweigh their backline.
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Dagg is big???
Yes, he really is. Certainly bigger than Halfpenny, Mike Brown, Hogg, Farrell etc
Fair call those fullbacks are all smallish jokers.
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@gollum said in 1993 Lions tour:
That's not big for a modern inside centre tho'. If you figure England have had Zara's husband, Barritt, Twelvetrees & Tuilagi all there prior & they were all 100kg+, the ABs had used Nonu & SBW, Wales used anyone 100kg+ who could run straight & not pass...
My point was in reply to the idea that this Lions team will be huge munters compared to the ABs (a reversal of the tour MN5 was discussing), I'm pretty sure we wil outweigh their backline.
@MN5 said in 1993 Lions tour:
Dagg is big???
Yes, he really is. Certainly bigger than Halfpenny, Mike Brown, Hogg, Farrell etc
Agree, not that big for a 12 these days but ask him and he'd likely say he's a 10. BTW, Wiki has Dagg at 1.85m and 96kg. If true not that big either
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Various big options open to the ABs, but if we ran with:
Smith, Barrett, Crotty, ALB, Savea, Dagg, Smith then Savea would be the only guy over 100kg
Most likely variation, I think is SBW at 2nd five (or centre?), which would add some size. As would alternative midfielders like Fekitoa, Tamanivalu or Moala.
I can't see them pairing Savea and Naholo to play two big wings.
TJ would add size at halfback.
Alternatively Cruden or NMS would make our unit smaller.
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@Bovidae said in 1993 Lions tour:
The 1971 tour was before my time but I was interested to read Phil Gifford's opinion piece on the tour, and in particular the myth that the Lions backs were the difference in that series.
Jeez Giffords article was all over the place
Whilst technically correct his piece about the Lions ignores the tone of the tour
I myself used to take solace in the fact that if tries had been worth 4 points (introduced the next year) we would have won the 71 series.
But that straw and Giffords piece ignores the relative strengths of the two teams.
By 71 the AB's were coming (had come) to the end of one of their most successful eras ever.
An era built on forward dominance but that under the innovation of Fred Allen had redefined the game on the 67 tour so that it resembled something like the modern game in terms of interplay between forwards and backs and skills etc
The Needle had gone and been replaced by Vodanovich an old school coach who was suspicious of airy fairyness and favoured 9 man rugby with Going as the playmaker.
The lions reputation for open running was built around their demolition of our provincial sides.
they beat wtn by 38 points, Maori by 11 (midweek) Akl in the game before the 3rd test and were the only Lions side to go undefeated against the provinces.
Come the tests they were up against an aging AB side that didn't have a lot of pace and should have won the first test in Dunedin more comfortably.
They underestimated us in the 2nd and were well beaten so they figured to play safety first because they knew they had the measure of our forwards and didn't really rate our backs - amd who can blame them
For the record these are the backs who started the last 2 tests
Laurie Mains, Bruce Hunter, Howard Joseph, Wayne Cottrell, Ken Carrington, Bob Burgess (rep Mick Duncan), Sid Going,
Laurie Mains, Ken Carrington, Mick Duncan, Phil Gard, Bryan Williams, Wayne Cottrell, Sid Going
Decidedly average
Lions: Williams, Gerald Davies, Dawes (c), Gibson, Duckham, John, Edwards
Nearly 50 years later I reckon every Kiwi that follows rugby to any extent recognizes all those Lions names. I went to the 4th test and theres 2 AB names I don't know
I had to look up Gard, Duncan and Joseph. They played 5 tests between them. All debuted against the Lions. None ever capped again
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@dogmeat But it's not an article, it's an opinion piece, so that means it doesn't have to be correct.
