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@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
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@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
I'm fully aware of that. But how did he, the Daily Telegraph or anyone else know anything at all about this if there were only two witnesses and they told nobody about it. Clearly that isn't the case. Either the journalists did tell someone or others witnessed it.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
I'm fully aware of that. But how did he, the Daily Telegraph or anyone else know anything at all about this if there were only two witnesses and they told nobody about it. Clearly that isn't the case. Either the journalists did tell someone or others witnessed it.
I’m not sure why you are getting hung up on the two witnesses. Yes another journo was right there in the conversation etc, but there were other people that kicked on to the bar that night. And they were media and staffers. So again not that hard to say that it was possible that others saw something and Ashleigh wasn’t aware that others saw/heard stuff going on.
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@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
I'm fully aware of that. But how did he, the Daily Telegraph or anyone else know anything at all about this if there were only two witnesses and they told nobody about it. Clearly that isn't the case. Either the journalists did tell someone or others witnessed it.
I’m not sure why you are getting hung up on the two witnesses. Yes another journo was right there in the conversation etc, but there were other people that kicked on to the bar that night. And they were media and staffers. So again not that hard to say that it was possible that others saw something and Ashleigh wasn’t aware that others saw/heard stuff going on.
I'm not hung up on anything. It goes back to my whole point of who knew something and didn't say anything. Fair enough with Ashleigh herself, but not if others just brushed it under the carpet.
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Agreed. I read a bit afterwards with many discounting this approach by saying it won’t work everywhere, which is true. Nevertheless, I’ll bet it will work in a lot of places, so seems like one data and observational driven means of addressing the problems.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
I'm fully aware of that. But how did he, the Daily Telegraph or anyone else know anything at all about this if there were only two witnesses and they told nobody about it. Clearly that isn't the case. Either the journalists did tell someone or others witnessed it.
I’m not sure why you are getting hung up on the two witnesses. Yes another journo was right there in the conversation etc, but there were other people that kicked on to the bar that night. And they were media and staffers. So again not that hard to say that it was possible that others saw something and Ashleigh wasn’t aware that others saw/heard stuff going on.
I'm not hung up on anything. It goes back to my whole point of who knew something and didn't say anything. Fair enough with Ashleigh herself, but not if others just brushed it under the carpet.
But knowing ‘something’ but not everything may be the reason they didn’t say anything. There’s no evidence that anyone brushed it under the carpet. I think it’s clear that those that knew something were investigating it to try and find more.
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@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@act-crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@barbarian said in Aussie Politics:
I don't want to get in an argument about it, but it's far easier IMO to come on here and say what could/should have been done at the time.
I've never been in a situation like that, and don't wish it on anyone. I find it very hard to condemn anyone's actions here, other than of course Foley.
Clearly there is far more to this situation than just the incident occurring and the two witnesses being totally mute about it. If that was the case you wouldn't have a Liberal making accusations in parliament or all the apparent "rumours". As I said, either other people witnessed what happened and they too said nothing or the two witnesses we do know about told other people.
Parliamentary privilege means you can say whatever you want.
I’m not saying there is or isn’t more to the story. What we do know for certain is that a journalist from the DT was sitting on the story for months. It was a public event and others were around the area and you take note of who’s talking to who. Not that hard in my opinion to ask the right sort of questions of people and join the dots.
I'm fully aware of that. But how did he, the Daily Telegraph or anyone else know anything at all about this if there were only two witnesses and they told nobody about it. Clearly that isn't the case. Either the journalists did tell someone or others witnessed it.
I’m not sure why you are getting hung up on the two witnesses. Yes another journo was right there in the conversation etc, but there were other people that kicked on to the bar that night. And they were media and staffers. So again not that hard to say that it was possible that others saw something and Ashleigh wasn’t aware that others saw/heard stuff going on.
I'm not hung up on anything. It goes back to my whole point of who knew something and didn't say anything. Fair enough with Ashleigh herself, but not if others just brushed it under the carpet.
But knowing ‘something’ but not everything may be the reason they didn’t say anything. There’s no evidence that anyone brushed it under the carpet. I think it’s clear that those that knew something were investigating it to try and find more.
Nothing is clear in this case. How can you claim that without knowing who actually knew or saw anything? Yes a journalist investigated it, but who else knew and did nothing? You simply don't have the answer to that.
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Australian government sources have confirmed that they will grant Asia Bibi and her family asylum if Canada does not make an offer.
This really is terrific news. I have to commend Scott Morrison over the last two weeks, calling for the reduction in immigrant numbers, a new hardline stance removing citizenship from terrorist offenders and the calling out of radical islam and the apologists within the community. Adding in this asylum offer (which Britain shamelessly refused) shows that he is both prioritising the safety of Australian citizens and doing what is morally right.
Outside of this I haven't been following him much, is he tracking well in other's eyes?
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@nta said in Aussie Politics:
Victorian Libs got smashed on the weekend. They're losing blue seats like crazy
Yeah saw that, am in NZ atm. I don't watch any TV but it seemed like the Liberals had no real visibility, are they low on funds or something? I was pretty inundated with Greens, ALP, Vic Socialists and even Clive Palmers party adverts on Youtube & Social media and very rarely, if anything at all, from Lib Dems or Liberals. Someone was telling me at a bar that Turnbull was really financing them and now that he is gone they are toast..probably just drunk talk but almost saw nothing of Matthew Guy and there was certainly plenty to attack Andrews on.
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@rembrandt I'm not in VIC so saw very little of the campaigning. I was camping in western NSW at the time and caught a bit of media coverage via print and social media. The analysts are saying there are a few factors in play:
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Andrews promised to spend big - lot of infrastructure (rail, road, etc), lot of school and hospital support. Rates are at an all-time low so now is the time for getting some big works in place and allow the effects to be felt into the future. And chances are, those promises can be kept, and kept Labor "focussed on the practical" as I saw one journo put it, in the public's eyes.
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The Libs' State President was typically Liberal about this, doomsaying about "running up debts" and so on, but really when you're the party who privatised electricity in Victoria, and all it did was raise power prices, you don't really have a leg to stand on when it comes to cost-of-living concerns.
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In a similar vein, the ALP made some big noise about maintaining the VRET (Victorian Renewable Energy Target) and listened to the concerns of people about climate change and transition of their big coal industries.
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The Libs kept focusing on a "Back in Control" agenda, trying to play on fears about immigration, population control, and crime in general. It failed, by and large, despite the recent terror attack in Melbourne.
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There was a real concern from the Liberals about some infighting that occurred in the leadup - not sure on the details, but it seemed the admin and the representatives were not in harmony. Guy is a "moderate" and knows that trying to get the fringe right loses the centre badly; hamstrung, in a way.
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Of course, the bullshit being served up by changes of leadership in Canberra didn't help. One part of the ALP campaign strategy was to drive billboards around with prominent Feds (mostly the ones who are considered in the right of the party) featured next to Matthew Guy. That said, the issues were state-level issues so the last point was minor, overall.
In short, the ALP - who are not without their own controversies - seemed to push forward with what they could do, rather than focus on what might not happen if they lost. The Libs were trying to gear up the paranoia about immigrants, and started to look a little hysterical by the end of the campaign.
There is going to be a root-and-branch review at Liberal HQ, but I suspect the two major factions in the party (moderates versus hard right) are going to find reconciliation difficult. I see a lot of talk from conservative commentators that the party is "losing the base" but, unfortunately, some of them think the right side of the party is the base, and some think the centrists are the base. The Liberal Party is under threat of a split in the current environment, and unless something can be done to bring it back in line, the Libs are going to see some more blood on the cobbles at the NSW and Federal elections in the first half 2019.
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@rembrandt I'd also add that the Federal Liberals have started shitting the bed over this result, despite the message that it wasn't due to their shenanigans - I've quoted a couple of bits from this article, but it is worth reading in its entirety as it has key messages from Liberal politicians.
Senior Liberals have rung the alarm on a voter backlash that threatens to wipe out the Morrison government, warning that a hardcore message on social issues is turning away the party’s own supporters.
Victorian senator Scott Ryan said the party needed to regain its “real base” with a message about long-standing Liberal values, as he slammed media commentators and some party colleagues for setting “tests” for members around social issues and climate change.
“I am sick of being lectured to by people who aren’t members of the party, by people who have never stood on polling booths, about what it means to be a real Liberal,” Senator Ryan said.
“Our voters sent us a message. Liberal voters want us to focus on their issues.”
Prime Minister Scott Morrison called all federal Victorian MPs to a meeting on Monday morning to discuss the Victorian election result, amid calls for state party president Michael Kroger to resign.
Liberal MP Tim Wilson said voters had named the federal leadership spill and climate change as factors in their votes against the Liberals in the state election.
Etc.
And well they might ring alarm bells: several of the blue rinse seats in eastern Melbourne are host to people like Josh Frydenberg.
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I think the role of Federal issues in the Vic election is a bit overplayed. From memory Guy was down by only two points in the polls a month ago, and within striking distance.
There are a few good lessons for NSW, in that people will actually support an incumbent Government who goes to the election on a state-building agenda. Weirdly it could be a good sign for the NSW Libs, who will likely do the same.
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@nta said in Aussie Politics:
@rembrandt I'd also add that the Federal Liberals have started shitting the bed over this result, despite the message that it wasn't due to their shenanigans - I've quoted a couple of bits from this article, but it is worth reading in its entirety as it has key messages from Liberal politicians.
Senior Liberals have rung the alarm on a voter backlash that threatens to wipe out the Morrison government, warning that a hardcore message on social issues is turning away the party’s own supporters.
Victorian senator Scott Ryan said the party needed to regain its “real base” with a message about long-standing Liberal values, as he slammed media commentators and some party colleagues for setting “tests” for members around social issues and climate change.
“I am sick of being lectured to by people who aren’t members of the party, by people who have never stood on polling booths, about what it means to be a real Liberal,” Senator Ryan said.
“Our voters sent us a message. Liberal voters want us to focus on their issues.”
Prime Minister Scott Morrison called all federal Victorian MPs to a meeting on Monday morning to discuss the Victorian election result, amid calls for state party president Michael Kroger to resign.
Liberal MP Tim Wilson said voters had named the federal leadership spill and climate change as factors in their votes against the Liberals in the state election.
Etc.
And well they might ring alarm bells: several of the blue rinse seats in eastern Melbourne are host to people like Josh Frydenberg.
It was a first term incumbent govt that won right? Time to ring the alarm bells in Canberra then! Ffs.
Btw anyone who thinks the Libs can improve their polling position by going hard on climate change is absolutely kidding themselves.
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@rembrandt said in Aussie Politics:
I don't watch any TV but it seemed like the Liberals had no real visibility, are they low on funds or something?
A lot of the funding was tied up in litigation, whose fault it was is up for debate. It all got there in the end but too late.
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The sooner the Liberals have it out, the better off they'll be, There's literally no way they can win a Federal election by pursuing votes on the far right - there simply aren't enough up for grabs.
When your own polling is telling you your base is embarrassed to vote for you and is deserting you, take note, take action.
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@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
The sooner the Liberals have it out, the better off they'll be, There's literally no way they can win a Federal election by pursuing votes on the far right - there simply aren't enough up for grabs.
When your own polling is telling you your base is embarrassed to vote for you and is deserting you, take note, take action.
How are they pursuing votes on the far-right?
Aussie Politics