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@gt12 It isn't tax dollars causing police, politicians and media to say there is no issue here. It's progressive ideology pushing policy which 'feels good' but is harming a section of Australian society whom they feel can be ignored or written off.
It's being portrayed in the media as purely white Australians having this issue but its not. It's working class people from a number of backgrounds.
Vietnamese aren't happy either, but they can at least get a media pass for standing up against it.
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@gt12 said in Aussie Politics:
In reality, probably both, however for this exercise, I'd like to ask that we assume that tax dollars are being used appropriately or at least can't be easily reassigned to the cops and policing.
My question is that there could be a personal contribution required here, and I wonder whether people are prepared to not only complain about problems, but also make themselves a little worse off in dealing with it?
I think the bigger question is to ask whether people are prepared to pay more to police a problem that has been imported. About a decade ago questions were raised about whether it was such a good idea to let in so many people from a war torn 3rd world country. Of course those people were shouted down as racists. Now that their concerns have been realised, the same screamers are claiming there is no problem when there clearly is.
How about having a logical, civil and adult discussion about immigration? That's what's missing here.
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It's doesn't, but that might also be a sign that they are seriously underfunded, and need to pass that along (I agree they shouldn't). As a result of a lack of funding, certain policing activities may also not get attended to, and hence people in low income communities may have to put up with violence from immigrant gangs. I agree that some (many) of those people shouldn't have been let in, but that's not helping the people in the communities living with these people - most of whom (I assume) are naturalized Australians and can't be sent home.
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The UN at their ideological best. How dare straya not sign the migrant accord!
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@gt12 said in Aussie Politics:
In reality, probably both, however for this exercise, I'd like to ask that we assume that tax dollars are being used appropriately or at least can't be easily reassigned to the cops and policing.
My question is that there could be a personal contribution required here, and I wonder whether people are prepared to not only complain about problems, but also make themselves a little worse off in dealing with it?
I think the bigger question is to ask whether people are prepared to pay more to police a problem that has been imported. About a decade ago questions were raised about whether it was such a good idea to let in so many people from a war torn 3rd world country. Of course those people were shouted down as racists. Now that their concerns have been realised, the same screamers are claiming there is no problem when there clearly is.
How about having a logical, civil and adult discussion about immigration? That's what's missing here.
Surely you realise that having a logical civil and adult discussion will only really be fruitful if people are of at least similar views. Reality is that your view, will be poles apart from somebody else's, and hence a middle ground won't be found.
A second generation Somali immigrant who has integrated nicely who wants to bring his extended family of 100 people over from a poor, pirate stricken area isn't going to come close to sharing the same view of one of the victims of crime of African youth gangs -and I really doubt a middle ground will ever be found.
I have no real solution to be honest, either.
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@MajorRage said in Aussie Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@gt12 said in Aussie Politics:
In reality, probably both, however for this exercise, I'd like to ask that we assume that tax dollars are being used appropriately or at least can't be easily reassigned to the cops and policing.
My question is that there could be a personal contribution required here, and I wonder whether people are prepared to not only complain about problems, but also make themselves a little worse off in dealing with it?
I think the bigger question is to ask whether people are prepared to pay more to police a problem that has been imported. About a decade ago questions were raised about whether it was such a good idea to let in so many people from a war torn 3rd world country. Of course those people were shouted down as racists. Now that their concerns have been realised, the same screamers are claiming there is no problem when there clearly is.
How about having a logical, civil and adult discussion about immigration? That's what's missing here.
Surely you realise that having a logical civil and adult discussion will only really be fruitful if people are of at least similar views. Reality is that your view, will be poles apart from somebody else's, and hence a middle ground won't be found.
A second generation Somali immigrant who has integrated nicely who wants to bring his extended family of 100 people over from a poor, pirate stricken area isn't going to come close to sharing the same view of one of the victims of crime of African youth gangs -and I really doubt a middle ground will ever be found.
I have no real solution to be honest, either.
It should still be possible to have a civil and adult debate. But, unfortunately large portions of the media, cultural gatekeepers and the latte set have polarised the topic to such an extreme that any questioning of anything other than open door immigration is racist. Of course there are racist dickheads on the other side, but good luck airing those views in public.
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@MajorRage said in Aussie Politics:
A second generation Somali immigrant who has integrated nicely
Or, even worse - a second generation immigrant who has NOT followed their arriving parents' example of integrating nicely. Or someone who emigrated as a youth and decided to raise hell. Happened with Vietnamese and Lebanese in Sydney, both groups fleeing civil war overseas during other eras. They had a much higher level of organised crime rather than just random attacks, too.
The calls were all the same i.e. kick them out. And the same thing was found, particularly when governments attempted to use it as leverage: by and large, tarring everyone with the same brush is ludicrous. The vast majority of people from Country X contribute positively.
By all means, let's have the debate about immigration - as long as it concentrates on who someone is, not which number they are in the queue. And certainly not based on what their children are doing after they're accepted into the country.
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@Rembrandt said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean Except they aren't delusional when their neighborhood is a regular target for home invasions. You seem to be looking at this through the lens of your safe neighbourhood. I know I don't need a weapon but if I lived where these people did and this was happening and the police were showing they could not help then I would want a firearm.
People who express a desire for a firearm for self defence are the last people who should have one. And my safe neighbourhood, being the inner city, has the highest incidences of assault, sexual assault and robbery.
I also think pepperspray should be legalised, it is in WA already. Just set a high punishment for misuse but at least it will give women some level of protection at night.
Murder has a high punishment and yet people still do it. I've already pointed out the escalation aspect and it would be of cold comfort to the victim that you've added a punishment for the offensive use of a defensive item.
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@NTA said in Aussie Politics:
@MajorRage said in Aussie Politics:
A second generation Somali immigrant who has integrated nicely
Or, even worse - a second generation immigrant who has NOT followed their arriving parents' example of integrating nicely. Or someone who emigrated as a youth and decided to raise hell. Happened with Vietnamese and Lebanese in Sydney, both groups fleeing civil war overseas during other eras. They had a much higher level of organised crime rather than just random attacks, too.
Thats true, but the reason I said integrated, was to point out how two people who share similar ethics and contribute strongly to society may have a completely different view on things.
Reality is that immigration is a huge source of issue, across all walks of life. But ultimately, almost all immigration is just one set of people, trying to make things better for themselves & their loved ones.
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The Banking Royal Commission is out, and just as we all thought, even though the big headlines were around the illegal shit being done by the Big 4 banks, the real problem was those pesky mortgage brokers. Chucking them right the fuck under the bus is going to fix everything.
Mortgage Choice's share price has dropped 13% today. CBA's has not.
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@mariner4life all the big banks went up!
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@NTA said in Aussie Politics:
@mariner4life all the big banks went up!
it's so fucked. And then they'll whack a margin on mortgage rates to cover any cost (perceived or real) make higher profits, and it will all roll merrily along
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@Rembrandt said in Aussie Politics:
I just now walked out of a Commsec seminar by CBA. They mentioned the 'elephant in the room' ..and also how well they were doing despite that.
banks are evil fluffybunnies
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Politics:
@NTA said in Aussie Politics:
@mariner4life all the big banks went up!
it's so fucked. And then they'll whack a margin on mortgage rates to cover any cost (perceived or real) make higher profits, and it will all roll merrily along
Meanwhile the mortgage brokers could see a downturn in business as they're forced to ask customers to pay the finders fee
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@NTA said in Aussie Politics:
@mariner4life said in Aussie Politics:
@NTA said in Aussie Politics:
@mariner4life all the big banks went up!
it's so fucked. And then they'll whack a margin on mortgage rates to cover any cost (perceived or real) make higher profits, and it will all roll merrily along
Meanwhile the mortgage brokers could see a downturn in business as they're forced to ask customers to pay the finders fee
well you can see what the market thinks of their future
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@mariner4life even the little guys tho
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@NTA said in Aussie Politics:
@mariner4life even the little guys tho
and of course the customer will ultimately lose out. Winners of the Royal Commission? the big 4 banks.
Tremendous.
Aussie Politics