All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2



  • Well done NZ.

    Class from Read and Hansen.

    This is a very special side. I can't think of another international side who could have competed against this BIL side with a man down for so long. And almost win it.

    SBW aside they can be proud of their effort. They came to play, but that was curtailed by the sending off. In real time I thought it was a yellow. On reflection red was the correct call.

    Garces was the worst kind of referee, inconsistent. At times he looked as if he was trying to balance the ledger, at others like he was making it up as he went along.

    Thank goodness.

    Despite almost clutching defeat from the jaws of victory I'm delighted that my Doomsday scenario didn't come to pass and the Lions proved me very wrong.

    AWJ and Warburton had their best games on tour. O'Brien and Itoje were very good, and the rest of the pack went about their business with quiet steel. Our tackling was immense.

    Vunipola has been criticised, but I think he was given the job of the Fall Guy. His transgressions kept Garces' gaze on him and our back 5 had free reign to ignore the offside line.

    Wellington police need to be informed that Itoje has appropriated McCaw's Cloak of Invisibility.

    Gatland certainly told his team to 'beg for forgiveness, not ask for permission' and they got away with as much as I could.

    His try aside I thought Murray was average and Webb must be wondering what he has to do to get a run.

    And I'm not convinced that the Sexton Farrell combo worked.

    Despite plentiful, clean ball from scrum and line out the BILs created very little. Davies was the pick of the backs again I thought, and Farrell's pass to Williams to set up Faletau's try was top drawer.

    A draw would have been a fair result but I'm very happy that we're going back to Eden Park with it all to play for.

    But hopefully Gatland realises that he got out of jail with this result.

    Hopefully he won't be fooled that he picked the right team.

    I can understand why he would start the same team next week but if we have any chance of beating a 15-man NZ at Fortress Eden then Lawes needs to partner Itoje, with Henderson on the bench.

    And I'd put Farrell back at 10 and Te'o at 12.

    So on to Act Three, 'The Fall of Eden' 🙂



  • Darn that was a hard fought game. Everyone (bar SBW) who took the field take a fucking bow. I mean the first test was very enterntaining, but this one was full out fuck you nah fuck you players smacking the shit out of each others.

    I think Hansen needs to shoulder some blame for this, after the red card if you absolutely feel the need to get more speed out there, swap Kaino for Ardie, he could have performed a hybrid 12/7 role easily, but hindsight is 20/20 and Laumape could have decided that, he looked dangerous with ball in hand. Either way he was forced becouse SBW was dumb.

    Also Sam Cane and Reallick were Massive, their workrate is second to none, and Cane probably hits harder than anyone in the game right now.

    Last, congratulations Lions and their fans, I always thought they would get more competetive the longer they are together and the first teamers stayed fit and got more minutes under their belt. The third test will be one for the ages and one could only hope to be there.



  • The new word for ref = fluffybunny



  • @Frank said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I've decided rugby is just a meaningless, silly game.
    I tend to have this conversion after we lose.

    Uh me too....spades of it



  • Watching the replay, I don't know how that dirty cheating fluffybunny Vunipola escaped a red card.
    There's no way he should have been on the pitch after the first challenge on Beaudy - THAT challenge was on the man in the air and even more dangerous than when he rolled over Beaudy on the ground.



  • While we didn't help ourselves with a number of brainfart decisions made throughout, I appreciate the renewed physicality the Lions pack brought today.
    Good points

    1. It has set up a mouthwatering clash for next week
    2. Lions tours will continue
    3. Good for fans of all nationalities
    4. Gives AB coaches something to think about with PLENTY of work-ons


  • I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.

    When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.

    Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.

    However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.



  • @Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.

    When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.

    Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.

    However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.

    Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.



  • @antipodean loved Reads comment to the ref. So we should all jump into tackles



  • @Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.

    When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.

    Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.

    However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.

    Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.

    I don't even know who hit Naholo but his was also a poorly executed, lack of due care, tackle assist that actually caused a head injury yet nothing? I think Ayoub had given up by then, he knew Garces wasn't listening to him.

    A poor showing by the ref team that lost it's way. Not only with the MV and Naholo incidents but the ARs completely lost sight of the offside lines in the last 10 minutes as well, it was a fucken mess.



  • @Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.

    When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.

    Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.

    However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.

    Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.

    I don't even know who hit Naholo but his was also a poorly executed, lack of due care, tackle assist that actually caused a head injury yet nothing? I think Ayoub had given up by then, he knew Garces wasn't listening to him.

    A poor showing by the ref team that lost it's way. Not only with the MV and Naholo incidents but the ARs completely lost sight of the offside lines in the last 10 minutes as well, it was a fucken mess.

    Quit the whingeing lads, we're not Irish. Naholo concussion doesn't automatically equal foul play. Reckon there is zero zilch nada chance O'Brien will be cited for that.

    Ref had some poor calls either way. Just like in every match ever played.



  • @Crucial But Lions sides don't commit penalty offenses, the ref is only there to make sure the AB's don't bring the game into disrupt 😜



  • @Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.

    When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.

    Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.

    However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.

    Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.

    I don't even know who hit Naholo but his was also a poorly executed, lack of due care, tackle assist that actually caused a head injury yet nothing? I think Ayoub had given up by then, he knew Garces wasn't listening to him.

    A poor showing by the ref team that lost it's way. Not only with the MV and Naholo incidents but the ARs completely lost sight of the offside lines in the last 10 minutes as well, it was a fucken mess.

    Quit the whingeing lads, we're not Irish. Naholo concussion doesn't automatically equal foul play. Reckon there is zero zilch nada chance O'Brien will be cited for that.

    Ref had some poor calls either way. Just like in every match ever played.

    Who's whingeing? I've stated clearly in a few posts that I think it was accidental.

    Just also pointing out how inconsistent the application of the head contact directive is in different situations. The proof is in the pudding in that Naholo failed a HIA



  • @Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I'll be surprised if Vunipola doesn't get cited. Surely Ayoub will try and defend himself because he was clearly being ignored by Garces. He will have to put that in his post match report.
    Garces was being a real arrogant fuck at times. Too hot headed to ref at this level.

    I've watched that Vunipola YC several times and that was clearly a deliberate act - a shoulder to the head (of Beaudy) in the cleanout. In the interests of fairness If SBW's was a RC then the Vunipola card should also have been the same colour.



  • @Crash Don't hold your breath on a citing it isn't going to happen. Expect SBW to 2 weeks. Mid field selection is going to be an interesting one, do you stay with ALB and Laumape or go for a 4th different combo.



  • I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?



  • @Wreck-Diver For midfield I think Crotty will come back into the reckoning and will start with ALB.
    Laumape to the bench.
    Interesting that they chose to sacrifice Kaino instead of sticking with a depleted and re-jigged midfield.



  • Is it a prerequisite that all Lions players throw their arms in the air when they believe they should have a penalty. Murray Farrell O'Brien Itoji are experts at it.



  • @Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    Is it a prerequisite that all Lions players throw their arms in the air when they believe they should have a penalty. Murray Farrell O'Brien Itoji are experts at it.

    Kind of like the way TJP always has something to say whenever NZ let in a try I suppose.

    For next week, I can't see any changes to the forwards. The only possible change is reverting to the 2 loose forwards option on the bench with Fafita. Backs will take some thought though.



  • Not based on the final penalty because I am not here to whinge but Garces is not up to international standards as a referee and I think both sides would agree.



  • @Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    Have to ask, curious penalty against the AB's for "offside" when Smith was box kicking - since when have refs seen that as a penalty? But more importantly - why was there only one penalty for that in a match where it happened every time there was a box kick?

    Can't answer question re consistency ...

    ... but assume it was for an AB forward not bound in the ruck being in front of the last foot.

    ... see para one.



  • @booboo again though, that's 90% of breakdowns when there's a box.



  • @kev said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I have had a couple of cracks and no bites at this so last go. The only player concussed was Naholo by a short arm forearm to the head by O'Brien. If was in Australia that replay would have been on high rotation until the game was stopped. No penalty we were up 18-9 and they scored in th next phase of play....just saying that for consistency in the game, this one was missed.

    ... umm ...



  • @MadGav said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    Those blaming Barrett need to take a few breaths.

    He missed a few, sure.

    He still kicked 7 penalties and all our points. Carter had plenty of kicking nights like his.

    "Blaming" would be harsh. Noting that he missed a couple of reasonably easy kicks as contributory to the result would be fair.



  • @Billy-Tell not whinging but well worth a discussion I would have thought. Contact to head with with swinging forearm that results in a concussion. Similar situation to SBW in that the Lions player inside had made the tackle and O'Brien came in late and to the side on a dropping player.



  • @Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?

    So you think he deliberately targeted the head with his shoulder?



  • @Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?

    So you think he deliberately targeted the head with his shoulder?

    I can't see any other explanation. Best I can see if being optimistic is that he saw Naholo making the tackle and was trying to hit Wise with his shoulder to help with the drive. But then that doesn't explain him looking directly at where he was going to plant his shoulder, bracing his shoulder perfectly for a shoulder charge and well and truly following through. It's not like Watson dropped a massive height or anything and even if he did it's hardly accidental.



  • @kev said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Billy-Tell not whinging but well worth a discussion I would have thought. Contact to head with with swinging forearm that results in a concussion. Similar situation to SBW in that the Lions player inside had made the tackle and O'Brien came in late and to the side on a dropping player.

    Yeah I dunno. No point crying over split milk I'd rather concentrate on next week. The midfield concerns me a bit.



  • @akan004 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Stargazer Can't believe the call on Retallick. He did what every forward does at a ruck before a box kick which was to be a blocker for the halfback. What a shocking call.

    Looking at the highlights @Stargazer posted was he even offside?

    Serious question: is the offside line formed by the last part of the body lying in the tuckle (cross between ruck and tackle) or the foot pf the last person on their feet?

    If tge former he was offside but tgst is not Garces reffed tge rest of the night.

    Felt we should have got the penalty the Lions got just before halftime for holding on. His timing on those tackle penalties varied massively. Take for example hid fist pen v. A Smith for not rolling away. Seemed to be one movement for me.

    And playing on from that penalty on the break the great cross field kick Murray should probably have been a penalty try for Taylor being offside.



  • Shit loss, but makes for a more exciting 3rd test. Eden Park, must-win. Bring It On.



  • Shag was good in the presser , not one excuse and full of praise to the lions , but makes it so obvious he gets sick of the media and their obsession with a negative story .
    He kept reminding them, it's one all, we have a decider , get excited over that.



  • @Frye said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @antipodean said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    Someone explain to me how SBW deserved a red card and Vunipola didn't. Both were straight shoulders to the head. I'm also interested in how you can get a penalty from jumping into tackles.

    Because French.

    And we got another one of the fluffybunnys next week.

    I think Poite is one level lower down the randomness scale. Still random but ever so slightly less so.



  • @Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?

    So you think he deliberately targeted the head with his shoulder?

    I don't believe he did , but I do think he was trying to be aggressive and there wasn't enough thought going into it, it's like the driver going through a red light because he isn't concentrating enough , you have to be a lot smarter than that .



  • @Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @antipodean loved Reads comment to the ref. So we should all jump into tackles

    Shame we can't backdate the rules, RC Gregan and Wilson gets a penalty try ...



  • @Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    Fucking infringing Lions. If Gatland mentions All Black infringements again this week he can have his citizenship stripped.

    Yep, SBW was dumb as fuck, Vunipola hitting BB as he did was pretty deliberate as well as dumb, should have resulted in same card.

    I really hope we address the off side line, I don't recal Read asking for a warning after repeated infringements, I mean i didn't even know Itoje played for us.

    Simple fact is, ref let them away with it, it worked in denying us any continuity or go forward, you ain't gonna stop unless on a warning.

    Also interesting to see if anything comes from the swinging arm to Naholo, looked largely accidental, but we are all about protecting the head now.



  • @Bones oops sorry @Bones that should have read "Can't answer question on consistency ..."



  • @taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    Fucking infringing Lions. If Gatland mentions All Black infringements again this week he can have his citizenship stripped.

    Yep, SBW was dumb as fuck, Vunipola hitting BB as he did was pretty deliberate as well as dumb, should have resulted in same card.

    I really hope we address the off side line, I don't recal Read asking for a warning after repeated infringements, I mean i didn't even know Itoje played for us.

    Simple fact is, ref let them away with it, it worked in denying us any continuity or go forward, you ain't gonna stop unless on a warning.

    Also interesting to see if anything comes from the swinging arm to Naholo, looked largely accidental, but we are all about protecting the head now.

    Realistcally Dub's was accidental too. Didn't think tgere eas a distinction.



  • @Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.

    When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.

    Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.

    However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.

    Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.

    Quite similar in essence to TKB YC for Maori. I think it's fair to say that had TKB and SBW been the only tackers it is almost certain they would have used arms. Perhaps a technical issue AB wise men ought to address in training?



  • @kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    @Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

    I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?

    So you think he deliberately targeted the head with his shoulder?

    I don't believe he did , but I do think he was trying to be aggressive and there wasn't enough thought going into it, it's like the driver going through a red light because he isn't concentrating enough , you have to be a lot smarter than that .

    I don't disagree with that. It looked to me like a split second decision to go in and help Naholo out but had incredibly high risk given the angle he was coming in and the lack of chance to get two arms in there. He fucked up for sure but I really don't think he deliberately aimed a shoulder at the head. He aimed a shoulder into the players to make an impact but the risk of contacting head was too high and happened.



  • I hope Sonny takes the chance, and the AB management give him he opportunity to front media in the debrief this morning NZT.


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