All Blacks v Pumas
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What we know: Crotty, Cane and Crockett are available for selection. Naholo and Franks are not. Kaino will play for Auckland.
Here's possibly a hint at who will play against the Pumas on Saturday: Barrett instead of Whitelock starting?
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Lock is an interesting position for the ABs.
We've possibly got the two best locks in the world, but then the drop-off is huge. Barrett is apparently third in line, but he's several inches short of the desired height and still pretty green. Romano's not quite good enough, Tuipolotou has not built on his early promise and Broadhurst is forced out of the game.
Big gap for someone else to step into IMO.
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@Chris-B. said in All Blacks v Pumas:
Lock is an interesting position for the ABs.
We've possibly got the two best locks in the world, but then the drop-off is huge. Barrett is apparently third in line, but he's several inches short of the desired height and still pretty green. Romano's not quite good enough, Tuipolotou has not built on his early promise and Broadhurst is forced out of the game.
Big gap for someone else to step into IMO.
Romano seems to have led a pretty charmed life to get as many caps as he's had
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@MN5 Yep. If he'd nailed it, Barrett wouldn't be getting a look in.
Still, he's no orphan in that regard.
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Last year, the All Blacks selectors indicated a preference for a combination of athletic locks and power locks. They seem to do the same this year and that explains why Romano is there. While Whitelock and Barrett are more athletic locks and Retallick fits both descriptions, Romano is the best power lock available (although well behind Brodie). So I'm not surprised Romano is there, because PT - who can also be considered a power lock - is clearly not up to it at the moment.
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AB selectors need to prioritize defence. Leaking too many tries. When was the last time ABs gave up 45 straight points?
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@Salacious-Crumb said in All Blacks v Pumas:
AB selectors need to prioritize defence. Leaking too many tries. When was the last time ABs gave up 45 straight points?
i was thinking the same thing during the wallaby game , lions found plenty of gaps too
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apparently Foster reckons we are giving them the chances through our attacking errors more so than defensive lapses
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@Salacious-Crumb said in All Blacks v Pumas:
AB selectors need to prioritize defence. Leaking too many tries. When was the last time ABs gave up 45 straight points?
Yeah, but, it's a balancing act between how adventurous you want to be on attack and how many points you are willing to concede.
For example, England in 2003 were outstanding on defense. But a lot of that is because their whole attack revolved around Wilkinson kicking drop goals and penalties, so they rarely had to defend turnover ball etc.
Wayne Smith has talked about the link between throwing the ball around and a watertight defense in the past. Typically the ABs have struck a great balance, but recently we've certainly been leaving ourselves a bit open. Not having McCaw to cover our asses probably has an impact there.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Pumas:
apparently Foster reckons we are giving them the chances through our attacking errors more so than defensive lapses
I'd agree with that. When we've been loose with the ball and turned it over, the Lions and Aussies have capitalised.
A bit more patience is what is needed. Even Aaron Smith in that second Bledisloe was playing like a juiced up energizer bunny.
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@No-Quarter Probably largely linked to the sub-par handling being demonstrated this year. We're not usually that prone to spillages and turnovers all over the show.
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ALL BLACKS: Damian McKenzie, Israel Dagg, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sonny Bill Williams, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Vaea Fifita, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Nepo Laulala, Dane Coles, Joe Moody.
Reserves: Codie Taylor, Wyatt Crockett, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Scott Barrett, Sam Cane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Lima Sopoaga, Ngani Laumape.
Return of the hot stepper.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Pumas:
ALL BLACKS: Damian McKenzie, Israel Dagg, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sonny Bill Williams, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Vaea Fifita, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Nepo Laulala, Dane Coles, Joe Moody.
Reserves: Codie Taylor, Wyatt Crockett, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Scott Barrett, Sam Cane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Lima Sopoaga, Ngani Laumape.
Return of the hot stepper.
Good to see Nehe back.
Little bit of rotation without going OTT. Good.
Sammy deserves a rest.
Would be fun to watch Laumape and Dubs together although I don't expect that to be plan A.
Only question for me is TKB on the bench. No problem in as much as he is clearly in the 3 best halfbacks, but as he's leaving are we missing a chance to get another 9 blooded? Or is Weber next in line and still not 100% so TKB is stop gap as nobody else is ready?
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interesting team , you can visualize everything clicking , and them running in some great tries ,
and you can visualize it going the other way , where it doesnt quite run that smoothly , and they make hard work of it -
Oh yeah, Ben Smith is done for the year.
With McKenzie, Dagg, NMS and Barrett, I think we have fullback covered.
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NMS and Dmac together in the back 3 is very short arse ,
Opposition coaches would see an opportunity there , to send some tall guys through to compete in the air
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@kiwiinmelb Izzy and SBW will just have to work doubly hard on D to make up for the lack of height then...SBW owes us one anyway
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@Crash think he owes more than. One, although I guess we at least won the last test
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Pumas:
ALL BLACKS: Damian McKenzie, Israel Dagg, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sonny Bill Williams, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Vaea Fifita, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Nepo Laulala, Dane Coles, Joe Moody.
Reserves: Codie Taylor, Wyatt Crockett, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Scott Barrett, Sam Cane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Lima Sopoaga, Ngani Laumape.
Return of the hot stepper.
Good to see Nehe back.
Little bit of rotation without going OTT. Good.
Sammy deserves a rest.
Would be fun to watch Laumape and Dubs together although I don't expect that to be plan A.
Only question for me is TKB on the bench. No problem in as much as he is clearly in the 3 best halfbacks, but as he's leaving are we missing a chance to get another 9 blooded? Or is Weber next in line and still not 100% so TKB is stop gap as nobody else is ready?
I think the options are way open for halfbacks. I'd say a close eye is being kept on the NPC with the likes of TTT and JT as youngsters finding their feet.
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@Crash said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@kiwiinmelb Izzy and SBW will just have to work doubly hard on D to make up for the lack of height then...SBW owes us one anyway
Yeah, he could drop a shoulder into any kick chasers.....
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Good to see Whitelock has been given a rest, although I assume that Retallick will need a break soon, too. Have no strong opinion on the choice between Romano and Barrett; Romano has more experience, Barrett more talent.
Interesting that they've gone for Fifita instead of Squire. It can't be about Squire needing a rest, because he hasn't played that much. Maybe it's because Savea is starting and they've played together at the Canes? For Savea, it's time to prove that he can start games, too.
Good to see TJP getting a start. I always think he's better as a starter than as a reserve. Time to prove something for him, too. A bit disappointed that Sopoaga doesn't get the start, but may they just wanted the TJP-Barrett combo, or Barrett's experience in light of all the other changes they've made in the backline.
Crotty not in the 23. Seems they want to keep him in one piece for the more difficult games against the Springboks. I assume Laumape can cover centre as well, because with BFA and Rieko not in the 23 either, he seems to be the only one option to replace ALB if he gets injured.
Great to see the skud back, and Dagger on the right wing for all the high balls. I'm disappointed that they don't use this game to test Havili. I can't imagine them giving him his debut against South Africa or in away games, unless Dmac is giving away tries again this weekend or when the RC is in the bag.
To me it's obvious that TKB is on the bench because Weber needs more match fitness. He only just got his first start of the year, last night. I have no doubt that Weber, if he stays fit and healthy, will be on the EOYT; there is no better candidate.
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Stoked for ALB TKB and NMS! Less stoked for SBW
Happy they are giving DMac a decent run at this level. He's a pass mark for me and would be excelling if he cut out a few of the errors.
With BFA gone, it is likely he will trot on out against SA too, I imagine.
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@Hooroo Yep I'm happy they're testing some of the squad members out and giving others a well earned break. I would like to see Havili get a run at some stage to see how he copes. Plus interested to hear Shag speak of Blake Gibson in one of the pressers (in Matt Todd's absence)
Building toward the 2019 WC starts here and now. -
@Stargazer I think Fifita is in the squad and this is the game that makes the most sense to give him a run. If you don't play him in this game he probably doesn't get a run in TRC. They obviously want some experience/leadership in the 23 too so Cane.
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I think he's got to make the most of it too. He's certainly got the potential, but yet to deliver. Were he to do so, he could really make the bench interesting, especially as 6/lock cover.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Pumas:
ALL BLACKS: Damian McKenzie, Israel Dagg, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sonny Bill Williams, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Vaea Fifita, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Nepo Laulala, Dane Coles, Joe Moody.
Reserves: Codie Taylor, Wyatt Crockett, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Scott Barrett, Sam Cane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Lima Sopoaga, Ngani Laumape.
Return of the hot stepper.
Good to see Nehe back.
Little bit of rotation without going OTT. Good.
Sammy deserves a rest.
Would be fun to watch Laumape and Dubs together although I don't expect that to be plan A.
Only question for me is TKB on the bench. No problem in as much as he is clearly in the 3 best halfbacks, but as he's leaving are we missing a chance to get another 9 blooded? Or is Weber next in line and still not 100% so TKB is stop gap as nobody else is ready?
Who says they'll even have 3 full-time halfbacks in the squad after TKB leaves? It wasn't that long ago they only had Weepu and Cowan, with Ellis only called up when needed.
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@Stargazer Sonny Bill can cover centre and has done so in the past.
Big game for ALB. He's having second (test) season blues. Just a little concerned about our defence and who will be the backline leader.
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@Unco said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Pumas:
ALL BLACKS: Damian McKenzie, Israel Dagg, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sonny Bill Williams, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Vaea Fifita, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Nepo Laulala, Dane Coles, Joe Moody.
Reserves: Codie Taylor, Wyatt Crockett, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Scott Barrett, Sam Cane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Lima Sopoaga, Ngani Laumape.
Return of the hot stepper.
Good to see Nehe back.
Little bit of rotation without going OTT. Good.
Sammy deserves a rest.
Would be fun to watch Laumape and Dubs together although I don't expect that to be plan A.
Only question for me is TKB on the bench. No problem in as much as he is clearly in the 3 best halfbacks, but as he's leaving are we missing a chance to get another 9 blooded? Or is Weber next in line and still not 100% so TKB is stop gap as nobody else is ready?
Who says they'll even have 3 full-time halfbacks in the squad after TKB leaves? It wasn't that long ago they only had Weepu and Cowan, with Ellis only called up when needed.
I don't think there is a clear 3rd choice after TKB leaves. And the options are a little thin at the moment, so IMO I wouldn't be just getting anyone. Smith and TJP are pretty durable.
If DMac stays in the squad then perhaps he will be our emergency standby....
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@Unco said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Pumas:
ALL BLACKS: Damian McKenzie, Israel Dagg, Anton Lienert-Brown, Sonny Bill Williams, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Kieran Read (c), Ardie Savea, Vaea Fifita, Brodie Retallick, Luke Romano, Nepo Laulala, Dane Coles, Joe Moody.
Reserves: Codie Taylor, Wyatt Crockett, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Scott Barrett, Sam Cane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Lima Sopoaga, Ngani Laumape.
Return of the hot stepper.
Good to see Nehe back.
Little bit of rotation without going OTT. Good.
Sammy deserves a rest.
Would be fun to watch Laumape and Dubs together although I don't expect that to be plan A.
Only question for me is TKB on the bench. No problem in as much as he is clearly in the 3 best halfbacks, but as he's leaving are we missing a chance to get another 9 blooded? Or is Weber next in line and still not 100% so TKB is stop gap as nobody else is ready?
Who says they'll even have 3 full-time halfbacks in the squad after TKB leaves? It wasn't that long ago they only had Weepu and Cowan, with Ellis only called up when needed.
Still going to need that Ellis equivalent given some game time whether he's in the squad or not. Point stands.
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Hansen has said that they don't view Fifita as a lock. That may change with opportunties in that position as he's a similar height to Barrett.
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@Bovidae Probably the difference in weight.
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Yeah, I've seen that, but I personally don't see that much value in him as a straight up 6, unless he is some kind of project. My point was that he could cover 6/lock (not lock/6) in an era when both of our two front liners (and even Barrett) can go 80.
As injury cover, I think he's an interesting piece of the puzzle, if we are trying for full-on speed in the last 30.
Right now, the bench is pretty weak, so I assume they are trying to make Ofa the new Charlie (come back Charlie!), with Taylor plus ____?, a 6/lock like Fifita, Ardie, TJP, McKenzie (as 10 cover but coming on at 15), And Laumape/ALB there is plenty of power and speed.
Lots of those players need testing and experience of course, but I think that's where this year is most interesting. I feel like many are trying to guarantee a 23 spot.
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Ha ha, Steve responds
Edit: Link not working to herald article?
nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11918985
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@gt12 Given what they say about his change in weight and explosive drills results, you can see why they're so excited at the promise he can bring to the blindside. Good explanation why they don't see him as a lock.
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@gt12 we'll see about what they do with Ofa now that Laulala has shown his wares. At least for the rest of the season Ofa will get good game time to improve. But when Franks comes back who knows.
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@ACT-Crusader Earlier in thread it was suggested that they were trying to make Ofa the new Charlie. I seem to recall Charlie wasn't the greatest scrummager in his early days but to paraphrase Joel Stransky had the potential to become a 10 in a prop's body. Ofa is certainly a physical specimen in the loose.
Laulala is scrumming specialist, so a straight back up for Franks. As are Hames and Moody. Moli seems to offer potential to be another mobile prop who can scrummage tidily.
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As long as Ofa doesn't become another Joe McDonnell or Jamie Mackintosh.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Pumas:
As long as Ofa doesn't become another Joe McDonnell or Jamie Mackintosh.
Wrong initials
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Pumas:
Ha ha, Steve responds
Edit: Link not working to herald article?
nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11918985
Christ on a bike, any excuse to mention SBW as some kind of super athlete as if the rest are beer swilling club players.
