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    All Black backs' passing

    Sports Talk
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    • P
      pakman last edited by Duluth

      Once again a disappointing effort on Saturday. Nugget possesses the best 9 pass in rugby, but from there it goes pear shaped. BB just doesn't seem to have the tempo and weight on his pass to enable his outsides naturally to build momentum. in contrast, Sopoaga seems to get AB backs humming.
      Best pass I recall against Pumas was a beautifully weighted cutout pass, I think from Ofa T of all people!
      Contrast with Wobblies, where Foley is generally good and Beale often sublime. One wide pass against Boks was so good it created an easy try for the winger, when none looked to be on.

      R Crucial 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • R
        reprobate @pakman last edited by

        @pakman absolutely agree. aaron smith's passing gives us a hug advantage. beauden isn't bad, and he does some amazing other things - but sopoaga is better on that count. sbw played pretty well this week - and i know we've been spoilt by nonu - but this remains a weakness in his game. it has improved a fair bit, but still a way to go. get them watching videos of mehrtens, carter, nonu, larkham, horan etc.
        there are also far too many times when we see the inside man deliver a perfect pass for the outside man to hit at pace without losing momentum... only to be called (or not called) forward, because the supporting player is too flat. perenara is a serial offender, but he is far from alone. obviously the flatter the better up to a point, but i think we're going to get burnt by this eventually, and it could definitely be improved.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • ACT Crusader
          ACT Crusader last edited by

          DMac has a pretty laboured pass as well, which would be more noticeable if he were playing 1st 5.

          Aaron Smithโ€™s passing has been a bit scratchy this season IMO.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Rancid Schnitzel
            Rancid Schnitzel last edited by

            It was a piss poor display against Argentina, but a bit hysterical to claim Beale (and Foley of all people) are better. They've had their share of shockers as well. The ABs stand very flat on attack, and while there are advantages from doing that, there are also restrictions. Just look at DMacs pass to Folau.

            As mentioned further above, the big difference is the midfield. Nonu had a brilliant pass, while being a beast with ball in hand and nobody was better than Conrad at straightening the line. The midfielders on Saturday have some very positive qualities but they aren't in the same league as those two. It places extra pressure on BB having to create magic all the time.

            nzzp Bones 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • nzzp
              nzzp @Rancid Schnitzel last edited by

              @rancid-schnitzel said in All Black backs' passing:

              As mentioned further above, the big difference is the midfield. Nonu had a brilliant pass, while being a beast with ball in hand and nobody was better than Conrad at straightening the line. The midfielders on Saturday have some very positive qualities but they aren't in the same league as those two. It places extra pressure on BB having to create magic all the time.

              Nonu developed his passing game, and it became excellent.

              Also very few midfields breath the rarified air of Ma'a and Conrad. They were in the conversation for our best ever from probably 2010-2015

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
              • mimic
                mimic last edited by

                I blame Foster

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • KiwiMurph
                  KiwiMurph last edited by

                  Mick Byrne is with Australia now - perhaps a factor.

                  antipodean 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • antipodean
                    antipodean @KiwiMurph last edited by

                    @kiwimurph said in All Black backs' passing:

                    Mick Byrne is with Australia now - perhaps a factor.

                    If New Zealanders need to learn how to pass a rugby ball from an ex-AFL player, things are dreadfully bad.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                    • C
                      cgrant last edited by

                      I'd like to see a Crotty - Goodhue midfield combo at the EOYT or against the Wallabies in Brisbane. Goodhue is the most Conradsmithuesque centre in NZ IMO.

                      ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                      • ACT Crusader
                        ACT Crusader @cgrant last edited by

                        @cgrant said in All Black backs' passing:

                        I'd like to see a Crotty - Goodhue midfield combo at the EOYT or against the Wallabies in Brisbane. Goodhue is the most Conradsmithuesque centre in NZ IMO.

                        Like your thinking ๐Ÿ™‚

                        1. Crockett
                        2. Taylor
                        3. Laulala
                        4. Romano
                        5. Whitelock
                        6. Barrett
                        7. Todd
                        8. Read
                        9. T. Lander
                        10. T. Cane
                        11. T. Blue
                        12. Crotty
                        13. Goodhue
                        14. Dagg
                        15. Havili
                        booboo Nepia SammyC 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                        • Crucial
                          Crucial last edited by

                          Keep up @ACT-Crusader your 3 is a Chief

                          ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                          • Crucial
                            Crucial @pakman last edited by

                            @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

                            Once again a disappointing effort on Saturday. Nugget possesses the best 9 pass in rugby, but from there it goes pear shaped. BB just doesn't seem to have the tempo and weight on his pass to enable his outsides naturally to build momentum. in contrast, Sopoaga seems to get AB backs humming.
                            Best pass I recall against Pumas was a beautifully weighted cutout pass, I think from Ofa T of all people!
                            Contrast with Wobblies, where Foley is generally good and Beale often sublime. One wide pass against Boks was so good it created an easy try for the winger, when none looked to be on.

                            I seem to recall quite a few very good passes. It was the catching and decisions that were more shocking.
                            I am thinking that this current hot and cold spell we are seeing is down to a new approach settling in. Remember how awful things looked back when implementing the flat backline years ago?
                            This current system seems to me to be a relentless press. No pausing once moving forward but trying to find the next player that can keep going. That and some sevens like stuff flinging the ball around back and forth looking for a half gap to get the forward press started.
                            I know teams always look to go forward but the difference here is the mindset of not resetting unless absolutely necessary.
                            I think it was in Reads try on the wing where you could see a 15 man wave up field eating up ground and keeping the ball alive constantly moving forward.
                            When it clicks it is awesome. Takes some skill though.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                            • C
                              cgrant last edited by

                              Standing flat is OK when you have Brodie R in midfield as first receiver. He's asking questions to the opposition's defence. Ioane was never used near Barrett, not even as a decoy runner.

                              antipodean 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • antipodean
                                antipodean @cgrant last edited by

                                @cgrant said in All Black backs' passing:

                                Standing flat is OK when you have Brodie R in midfield as first receiver. He's asking questions to the opposition's defence. Ioane was never used near Barrett, not even as a decoy runner.

                                Brodie's decision-making and execution in that regard are excellent. Most locks I play/ed against would give up an intercept most of the time.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • P
                                  pakman last edited by

                                  No doubt the flat backline does cause some of the problems. It seems to require very good timing to build momentum. SBW outside Crudes worked exceptionally because they had timing nailed (amongst other things). But when opposition has an organised rush, the flat line can become a case of shovelling on.
                                  Need some big units straightening the line, or running decoy, to keep rush guessing. Savea used to be very effective at that, and expect Ioane will become so. Was hoping for it when Laumape came on, but didn't seem to gel.
                                  Crucial is spot on that from broken play the sevens style approach, but with a fifteen man wave is awesome, and almost unstoppable when clicking.
                                  But nonetheless, I do think that from set piece wide passing needs improvement. Perhaps it was more noticeable to me having watched the Boks/Wobblies sister kissing fest. No need to watch preamble, but Foley pass at 4.05 in link is a peach:

                                  antipodean 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Bones
                                    Bones @Rancid Schnitzel last edited by

                                    @rancid-schnitzel said in All Black backs' passing:

                                    It was a piss poor display against Argentina, but a bit hysterical to claim Beale (and Foley of all people) are better.

                                    I'm thinking short memories? Fucking easy to pick out examples of Barrett being as good or better - NMS' try Vs the Springboks being a perfect example.

                                    P 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • P
                                      pakman @Bones last edited by

                                      @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.

                                      Bones Rancid Schnitzel Rapido 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Bones
                                        Bones @pakman last edited by

                                        @pakman Again, plenty of examples prove otherwise - as I said, do you not remember NMS's try against the Springboks?

                                        P 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • antipodean
                                          antipodean @pakman last edited by

                                          @pakman That first try is a forward pass. How do refs not see that?

                                          P 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • ACT Crusader
                                            ACT Crusader @Crucial last edited by

                                            @crucial said in All Black backs' passing:

                                            Keep up @ACT-Crusader your 3 is a Chief

                                            Heโ€™s a Cantab through and through. Heโ€™s just had a crisis of faith....

                                            Crucial 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • P
                                              pakman @antipodean last edited by

                                              @antipodean Couldn't agree more. Even Michael Lynagh said the same at half time (mind you he's always struck me as straight shooter).

                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                              • Crucial
                                                Crucial @ACT Crusader last edited by Crucial

                                                @act-crusader said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                @crucial said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                Keep up @ACT-Crusader your 3 is a Chief

                                                Heโ€™s a Cantab through and through. Heโ€™s just had a crisis of faith....

                                                His crisis of faith was when he forgot about the white stripe on his jersey of choice. The Laulalas are all Wesley boys from Pukekohe despite the best efforts of the inbreds from the southern plains to claim them.

                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                • P
                                                  pakman @Bones last edited by

                                                  @bones Do you mean the recent one with the magician sleight of hand?

                                                  Rancid Schnitzel 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                  • Rancid Schnitzel
                                                    Rancid Schnitzel @pakman last edited by Rancid Schnitzel

                                                    @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                    @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.

                                                    Disagree with the better cut out pass. Remember that one Barnes didn't call forward? That was a shocker. Although ironically it led to a try....

                                                    Regardless, I totally agree that BB needs to improve big time on his place kicking and also needs work on his option-taking. But his pass isn't a problem. In fact out of all the starting 10s in test rugby, I'd say he has the best pass of the lot.

                                                    P 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • Rancid Schnitzel
                                                      Rancid Schnitzel @pakman last edited by Rancid Schnitzel

                                                      @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                      @bones Do you mean the recent one with the magician sleight of hand?

                                                      He meant the cut out pass from left to right that put NMS into the corner.

                                                      P 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                      • P
                                                        pakman @Rancid Schnitzel last edited by

                                                        @rancid-schnitzel said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                        @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                        @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.

                                                        Disagree with the better cut out pass. Remember that one Barnes didn't call forward? That was a shocker. Although ironically it led to a try....

                                                        Regardless, I totally agree that BB needs to improve big time on his place kicking and also needs work on his option-taking. But his pass isn't a problem. In fact out of all the starting 10s in test rugby, I'd say he has the best pass of the lot.

                                                        That Foley pass was a shocker: but as the old joke goes, one swallow doesn't make a summer! BB has a lot of clever passes, but we may have to agree to disagree about his long balls.
                                                        Goal kicking is a worry, and option taking not great when he doesn't have a pair of savvy eyes, such as Crotty's outside him.

                                                        Rancid Schnitzel 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                        • P
                                                          pakman @Rancid Schnitzel last edited by

                                                          @rancid-schnitzel That was an excellent pass, but it has to be said that NMS had acres of space so accuracy wasn't as crucial.

                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                          • Crucial
                                                            Crucial last edited by

                                                            Long flat passing has been a bit of an Oz trend in the last decade. Both Cooper and Beale stood out when young for passing like this and it was seen as an extension of the Larkham/Giteau late skips.
                                                            Many of the current crop have grown up watching that style lose up in training or emulating it.

                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                            • booboo
                                                              booboo @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                              @act-crusader said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                              @cgrant said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                              I'd like to see a Crotty - Goodhue midfield combo at the EOYT or against the Wallabies in Brisbane. Goodhue is the most Conradsmithuesque centre in NZ IMO.

                                                              Like your thinking ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                              1. Crockett
                                                              2. Taylor
                                                              3. Laulala
                                                              4. Romano
                                                              5. Whitelock
                                                              6. Barrett
                                                              7. Todd
                                                              8. Read
                                                              9. T. Lander
                                                              10. T. Cane
                                                              11. T. Blue
                                                              12. Crotty
                                                              13. Goodhue
                                                              14. Dagg
                                                              15. Havili

                                                              Bullshit ACTC ... surely Drummond makes the eoyt...

                                                              Tim 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                              • Tim
                                                                Tim @booboo last edited by

                                                                @booboo Bryn Hall, you nimrod.

                                                                Crucial 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                • Crucial
                                                                  Crucial @Tim last edited by

                                                                  @tim said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                  @booboo Bryn Hall, you nimrod.

                                                                  Of course. Born and bred, bleeds red and black, Learned everything about the game the moment he crossed Cook Strait etc etc

                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                  • Rancid Schnitzel
                                                                    Rancid Schnitzel @pakman last edited by

                                                                    @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                    @rancid-schnitzel said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                    @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                    @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.

                                                                    Disagree with the better cut out pass. Remember that one Barnes didn't call forward? That was a shocker. Although ironically it led to a try....

                                                                    Regardless, I totally agree that BB needs to improve big time on his place kicking and also needs work on his option-taking. But his pass isn't a problem. In fact out of all the starting 10s in test rugby, I'd say he has the best pass of the lot.

                                                                    That Foley pass was a shocker: but as the old joke goes, one swallow doesn't make a summer! BB has a lot of clever passes, but we may have to agree to disagree about his long balls.
                                                                    Goal kicking is a worry, and option taking not great when he doesn't have a pair of savvy eyes, such as Crotty's outside him.

                                                                    Do you watch the Canes much? Plenty of delicious long balls on display there.

                                                                    Fark that looks dodgy if taken out of context.

                                                                    P 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                    • P
                                                                      pakman @Rancid Schnitzel last edited by

                                                                      @rancid-schnitzel You ain't wrong! Not really, for my sins I am a long suffering Blues fan living in Wimbledon. Long time between drinks!!

                                                                      Rancid Schnitzel 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                      • Nepia
                                                                        Nepia @ACT Crusader last edited by Nepia

                                                                        @act-crusader said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                        @cgrant said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                        I'd like to see a Crotty - Goodhue midfield combo at the EOYT or against the Wallabies in Brisbane. Goodhue is the most Conradsmithuesque centre in NZ IMO.

                                                                        Like your thinking ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                                        1. Crockett
                                                                        2. Taylor
                                                                        3. Laulala
                                                                        4. Romano
                                                                        5. Whitelock
                                                                        6. Barrett
                                                                        7. Todd
                                                                        8. Read
                                                                        9. T. Lander
                                                                        10. T. Cane
                                                                        11. T. Blue
                                                                        12. Crotty
                                                                        13. Goodhue
                                                                        14. Dagg
                                                                        15. Havili

                                                                        Don't you need to hand in your Cantab man card for that selection ACT? There's not 15 Crusaders. Hell, even the non Cantab Mitchell the Journey managed to get 14 Crusaders into an AB team.

                                                                        Edit: Guess I should have checked the first page before posting my reply, seems everyone's rallied around to help you pick 15.

                                                                        Nepia 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                        • Nepia
                                                                          Nepia @Nepia last edited by

                                                                          This post is deleted!
                                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                          • Rancid Schnitzel
                                                                            Rancid Schnitzel @pakman last edited by

                                                                            @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                            @rancid-schnitzel You ain't wrong! Not really, for my sins I am a long suffering Blues fan living in Wimbledon. Long time between drinks!!

                                                                            Could be worse. I was once a Canes fans living in Oslo! "Rugby, is that like American football."

                                                                            "No, nothing like it you stupid Noggie."

                                                                            Those were the days..

                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                            • Rapido
                                                                              Rapido @pakman last edited by

                                                                              @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                              @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.

                                                                              Isn't the cut out pass an overlap killer anyway? Of all the skills not up to scratch, I'd prefer it be the cut out passes.

                                                                              But I agree the passing on the weekend was beyond shoddy.

                                                                              R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                              • SammyC
                                                                                SammyC @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                                                @act-crusader said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                                @cgrant said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                                I'd like to see a Crotty - Goodhue midfield combo at the EOYT or against the Wallabies in Brisbane. Goodhue is the most Conradsmithuesque centre in NZ IMO.

                                                                                Like your thinking ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                                                1. Crockett
                                                                                2. Taylor
                                                                                3. Laulala
                                                                                4. Romano
                                                                                5. Whitelock
                                                                                6. Barrett
                                                                                7. Todd
                                                                                8. Read
                                                                                9. T. Lander
                                                                                10. T. Cane
                                                                                11. T. Blue
                                                                                12. Crotty
                                                                                13. Goodhue
                                                                                14. Dagg
                                                                                15. Havili

                                                                                I'd put Oli Jager in at tighthead ๐Ÿ˜‰

                                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                • R
                                                                                  reprobate @Rapido last edited by

                                                                                  @rapido said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                                  @pakman said in All Black backs' passing:

                                                                                  @bones I'd take BB over Foley every day of the year. The key point is that IMHO Foley has a better cut out pass. I think BB has gotten a little carried away with the kick pass. Just a work on.

                                                                                  Isn't the cut out pass an overlap killer anyway? Of all the skills not up to scratch, I'd prefer it be the cut out passes.

                                                                                  But I agree the passing on the weekend was beyond shoddy.

                                                                                  absolutely not. it allows you to choose the point of attack. to get the ball to the mismatch. to clear traffic quickly and get the ball to your overlap. to get around a rush defence. it is a key skill to anyone looking to control the attack in a game of footy.

                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                  • ACT Crusader
                                                                                    ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                                                    The perfectly timed cut out pass to a team mate running on to the ball from depth is still a key weapon in breaking down a defence. Plus when executed well itโ€™s still a thing of beauty

                                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
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