Exodus 2018



  • @crucial

    But Anthony Pulu Jr appears as a reserve for FORU 15s final in Noumea in 2008 and there are photos of him playing for Niue in NZ (Growers Stadium) in 2009, when he was the goalkicker. Maybe that was a different Toni Pulu that just looks a bit like him.

    Roy Kinikinilau played for Tonga sevens as a substitute - but may well have been eligibile for them as of right - before he played for New Zealand.



  • @machpants said in Exodus 2018:

    @bones Yeah those welly sevens days were before eligibility became a big thing. It didn't matter and if you had injuries you just grabbed whoever was available. If I remember correctly Scott Waldrom made his international sevens debut for Argentina!

    Phillipe Rayasi became Scotland's blackest player in one tournament as well. Great stuff.



  • @bones said in Exodus 2018:

    @machpants sounds about right. Even I almost made it on for Samoa I think it was!

    Does "almost made it on for Samoa" actually mean you sat next to the Samoan team at breakfast one morning?



  • @smudge quoting the wrong person there!



  • @machpants said in Exodus 2018:

    @smudge quoting the wrong person there!

    No, I didn't. I was quoting Bones, who was replying to you. You're just tagged in the post...



  • Okay, I've been digging.

    Niue took part in the Wellington leg of the 2008/09 IRB Sevens World Series (6-7 Feb 2009). Toni Pulu was named in the squad and played in at least 5 of their 6 games; the line-up of the 5th game won't load. Interesting detail: Tim Nanai-Williams and Nafi Tuitavake were playing for NZ.

    Niue participated in the Wellington leg of the 2009/2010 IRB Sevens World Series. That tournament took place on 5 and 6 Feb 2010. Toni Pulu was named in the Niuean team and played in all five games (3 times as a reserve).

    Niue also competed at the Adelaide leg of that Series (19 - 21 March 2010). Toni Pulu was again named in the squad and played in all 5 of their games.

    Niue entered a team for the Gold Coast leg of the 2011/12 IRB World Series (25 - 26 November 2011).
    Again, Toni Pulu was in that squad and played in the two first games against Fiji and NZ (that NZ team included Charles Piutau and Frank Halai). Niue were a player short in the next two games, and his name was missing on the team sheets. They were back to a full squad for the Shield Semi (which they also lost), but Pulu wasn't in the squad. So I guess he got injured in the game against NZ (or suspended).

    I couldn't find a Sevens Tournament in which Niue participated in 2010/11 and 2012/13.

    About that Oceania Cup game at Growers Stadium on 27 June 2009 that @ARHS is referring to, that was a qualifier for the 2011 RWC against Cook Islands (won by CI 29 to 7). Niue had two players with the last name Pulu in their squad (15 and 21 jersey). Unfortunately, there was no squad list with first names on the WR website, so I can't say whether Toni Pulu was one of those players.



  • @mn5 said in Exodus 2018:

    @machpants said in Exodus 2018:

    @bones Yeah those welly sevens days were before eligibility became a big thing. It didn't matter and if you had injuries you just grabbed whoever was available. If I remember correctly Scott Waldrom made his international sevens debut for Argentina!

    Phillipe Rayasi became Scotland's blackest player in one tournament as well. Great stuff.

    Jo Nayacavou says hi from this millenium.



  • @bones said in Exodus 2018:

    @mn5 said in Exodus 2018:

    @machpants said in Exodus 2018:

    @bones Yeah those welly sevens days were before eligibility became a big thing. It didn't matter and if you had injuries you just grabbed whoever was available. If I remember correctly Scott Waldrom made his international sevens debut for Argentina!

    Phillipe Rayasi became Scotland's blackest player in one tournament as well. Great stuff.

    Jo Nayacavou says hi from this millenium.

    Tell us again how you won a a tournament for Samoa? I'll buy you a beer.....



  • @stargazer

    There is a well-publicised photo of him kicking in that match.
    https://spranger.photoshelter.com/image/I0000kcGKbU50ZMQ

    Is that the same guy who plays for the Chiefs? Names were reported in NZ Rugby Almanack.

    The 2008 FORU tournament was in Noumea. So, if that is him, then it seems odd how he got selected at that time. It was not a short drive down the road to Growers Stadium in Papakura.



  • @mn5 I didn't get picked, that's how.



  • This seems to be the best thread to post this.



  • Here's another one from Paul Cully about the same topic but from a different angle.



  • J-Top League standard has skyrocketed. It is quite brutal now. Still, I suppose you can afford to go all-out when your season is only 7 games long. Elliot Dixon looked really good last night for Ricoh. V.fit and dominant tackles. Izzy dagg sitting in the stands sporting a fruity little hair weave hahahah



  • Interesting article with the factual statements of the agents. Have to say, I’m surprised at their assessment of the European market, particularly the English Premiership and the continuing losses for most of the clubs. They seem to think that the current flow will continue.

    I’ve read comments on here before that in some respects, the annual exodus is almost useful in the necessary culling of the herd.

    And yet, and yet. The agents seem to take no account of the reduction of foreign players in the Top14, the overinflated and unsustainable salaries (as stated by the clubs) in the Premiership, and the moves by the PRO14 unions to invest heavily in their academies and reduce imports. The Premiership clubs are now following suit.

    4-5 years ago, there were about 18-20 foreign-capped players playing in Ireland. This season, there are 7 players - 3 each from SA & Aus, and 1 from Fiji. Overall, the number of SANZAAR born players has dropped from 50 to 29 and those include people like Carbery, and others with parents/grandparents.

    There was an article recently in Herald or Stuff about whether the NZ government should financially support the All,Blacks or give them a tax break. It said it was the number 1 reason that players stayed in Ireland (not true) and could something similar be introduced in NZ. I think this has merit.



  • @derm-mccrum These articles from Paul Cully are only about (fringe) ABs, not about the Super Rugby players who've given up on becoming ABs and are going for the big bucks in Europe and - if eligible - maybe want to try getting selected for Fiji, Samoa, Tonga or other countries. It would have been interesting to find out from these agents whether they notice or expect any change in the signing of these non-NZ capped players.



  • @stargazer said in Exodus 2018:

    @derm-mccrum These articles from Paul Cully are only about (fringe) ABs, not about the Super Rugby players who've given up on becoming ABs and are going for the big bucks in Europe and - if eligible - maybe want to try getting selected for Fiji, Samoa, Tonga or other countries. It would have been interesting to find out from these agents whether they notice or expect any change in the signing of these non-NZ capped players.

    I know of a guy who was on the fringe of super selection, who now makes a good living plying his trade in the NH. Never going to be ABs quality but the type of guy who helps keep the ITM cup competitive. I'm not sure how much of an impact losing ITM players is because we seem to have plenty coming up to take their place



  • @canefan M10 Cup...

    I dont like seeing players head north as it erodes our depth and some of the next generation of kids need these older heads to help guide them as they work thier way to the top.

    That said, I think the last couple of seasons of NPC have been good with a number of talented players coming through (although are still some gaps, as there always are) and others cutting thier teeth.

    You'd have to think at some point the continual exodus' post RWC will hurt us and we may not recover.



  • @stargazer said in Exodus 2018:

    @derm-mccrum These articles from Paul Cully are only about (fringe) ABs, not about the Super Rugby players who've given up on becoming ABs and are going for the big bucks in Europe and - if eligible - maybe want to try getting selected for Fiji, Samoa, Tonga or other countries. It would have been interesting to find out from these agents whether they notice or expect any change in the signing of these non-NZ capped players.

    The first article has this quote from an agent:

    “I don't think it's cooled at the top end for your current All Blacks or starting Super Rugby players. There's certainly pressure there from the RFU around driving clubs to have more English qualified players but you've got to mindful that it's a World Cup next year so there will be a large number of southern hemisphere internationals or fringe internationals who are looking at their options."

    In practical terms that means some current All Blacks are likely to leave after the next World Cup.“

    And yes I agree about your query on uncapped NZ players. Those numbers have dropped too in Ireland and even more so since a) five year rule introduced and b) IQ rugby has focussed mainly on England for already qualified players. Last season, there were 12 SA-born players, 18 NZ and 3 Aus and 3 Eng. Now there’s 11 SA, 11 England, 11 NZ and 7 Aus. That’s partly influenced presumably by the nationality of the provincial coaches - Irish, English, Australian and South African.



  • @taniwharugby said in Exodus 2018:

    @canefan M10 Cup...

    I dont like seeing players head north as it erodes our depth and some of the next generation of kids need these older heads to help guide them as they work thier way to the top.

    That said, I think the last couple of seasons of NPC have been good with a number of talented players coming through (although are still some gaps, as there always are) and others cutting thier teeth.

    You'd have to think at some point the continual exodus' post RWC will hurt us and we may not recover.

    It would be interesting to see figures on the exodus from Super and ITM level



  • The NH exodus is hitting SA harder than NZ.