Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think
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So, with the rugby league world cup the island nations have been destroying us, and the fans have been, from what I've been reading/hearing, monumental.
However, if you look at certain sections, there is a HUGE amount of people talking about racist NZ policing, racist media and New Zealand being completely unfair to the Tongan/Samoan communities. After I first read this (ex poster Red Beard has been tweeting some stuff about it), I thought nothing of it, as thought it was just activists being activists. I mean nzherald and stuff have been posting positive articles vs negative articles about the fans and fan behaviour at a ratio of approximately 3 positive for every 1 negative, but some would have you believe it's the other way. I've also not read any articles which are directly linking anything negative to ethnicity, but I guess if you were already up in arms, you may be able to feel that it's being implied.
However, and I know this is the stupidest way ever of gauging a community, but if you look at the comments on Vetchy, stuff etc - there are a fair amount which are just terrible - and some of these are getting huge upvotes. Comments such as "fuck they are thick eh" & "why don't you fuck off to Tonga where you belong and celebrate there" etc etc - reading these I can see why you'd put your back against the wall.
I don't think NZ is 100% perfect, and I'm also perhaps naive enough to think that the NZ police naturally patrol/cover more in past historically known trouble spots. Spots such as Otahuhu, Otara, Mangare etc do have some poor reading for crime stats, so when there are huge parties / celebrations there, isn't it natural to think there would be enhanced policing?
At the forefront of this campaign is me old mate Eliota. Although personally I think he can be discredited, as a quick reading of his tweets exposes him as pretty much so a racist himself.
Anyway, what are TSF's thoughts - are we a nation of racists against the islanders (unless we want them to play rugby for us), or are the islander locals being a touch sensitive?
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Have you got any links to these peoples comments? There’s been some pretty crap behaviour from the Samoan and Tongan fans since the start of the tournament which I was.pretty surprised by to be honest .
My dog used to leave things in steaming piles on my lawn that I hold in higher regard than Eliota so I wouldn’t take that lying scumbags comments as representative of anything.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11940579
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‘It felt like they were in a riot mode’: Police tactics turn ugly in Otāhuhu
Police conducted a 'major operation' in the aftermath of Tonga's loss to England in the RLWC. Jamie Wall was there, and reports on what many in the community felt like overkill.<br /> <br />
An example
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The police would have reacted the same way had the Lion's fans been behaving like this in the streets, and we would have had the same bigots making idiotic comments about Poms, Taffs. Paddies and Jocks (yes I know).
So I don't see it as being any anti Islander sentiment, but then I like most Islanders, and most Poms, Taffs. Paddies and Jocks for that matter.
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Here's another ....
Aotearoa is home to the biggest Polynesian population on earth – a fact brought home to us all in high definition colour as the red sea of Mate Ma’a Tonga fans flooded the Rugby League World Cup in celebration. But for Pasifika Human Rights advisor and South Auckland local Tuiloma Lina Samu, it was...
As I said, I think they are being a little sensitive
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I think NZ is a racist society although improving all the time but I'm surprised that it's the PI community that is apparently being attacked.
I thought that PI was pretty effectively integrated into mainstream NZ - I don't mean culturally but in terms of acceptance. Workplaces in Akl at least are full of people with a PI background and all the comments I have read or heard are very positive about the Tongan passion for their team. They did the same during RWC and pretty much kick started the whole thing.
The incipient racism I observe is more against Maori (uppity blacks/Treaty entitlement) Asians (useless Drivers, speak funny, don't try and assimilate0 and refugees (different).
However the situation is vastly improved on when I was growing up and even from when I returned to NZ 25 years ago when frankly I was appalled at the blatant racism.
Maybe its the circles I move in but most people I know would I think say that Pacific Island communities enrich our society and are far more accepting of the other communities.
I'm not as sure what they think of palagi but I'm guessing they think I'm the coolest dude in Akl
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It's the modern way to scream racism when someone calls you on poor behaviour. If they didn't riot then the police would have left them alone.
For the more broader point, yes there is racism in NZ (as there is in any country), of all colours. But they are a minority in my experience. Most people get along fine, and a lot of talk that "sounds" racist is actually anti-unfairness.
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definitely some racist comments on social media, but then social media breeds knuckle dragging f3ckheads like there aren't enough in the world.
Veitch's page seems to attract more than it's fair share of dickheads too, I only follow the page as he gets some good interviews and the like and while I do comment on the odd thing I do try to steer clear of the comments on his page.
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@dogmeat said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
I'm not as sure what they think of palagi but I'm guessing they think I'm the coolest dude in Akl
Sure they do
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@kirwan said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
It's the modern way to scream racism when someone calls you on poor behaviour. If they didn't riot then the police would have left them alone.
For the more broader point, yes there is racism in NZ (as there is in any country), of all colours. But they are a minority in my experience. Most people get along fine, and a lot of talk that "sounds" racist is actually anti-unfairness.
This . If you don’t want people calling you out on your feral behaviour don’t behave like a feral . Those spinoff articles were mostly drivel apart from the point about fanzones which are hardly surprising considering how much of a joke international league is. Crying racism after there’s been loads of arrests for rioting is pretty weak.
I hardly hear any racist drivel towards maori/ pi people anymore but people I know who would never make a racist comment about brown people seem to have no problem saying pretty awful things about Chinese/ Asian people. I’ve got a mate who’s half Chinese and looks maori, the stories he’s told me about things people have said expecting him to agree are cringeworthy.
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@jegga this is reality, puppet style
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@kirwan said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
It's the modern way to scream racism when someone calls you on poor behaviour. If they didn't riot then the police would have left them alone.
Yep. There are complete fuckwits of every hue. It's not racist to stop traffic interference or homemade missile projection. FFS.
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I'm a privileged straight white male. I'm too terrified to say anything cos I might offend someone who isn't like me.
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@mn5 said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
I'm a privileged straight white male. I'm too terrified to say anything cos I might offend someone who isn't like me.
I'm offended by this post
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@mn5 said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
I'm a privileged straight white male. I'm too terrified to say anything cos I might offend someone who isn't like me.
I find your faux guilt and fear disgusting
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@majorrage said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
Comments such as "fuck they are thick eh" & "why don't you fuck off to Tonga where you belong and celebrate there" etc etc - reading these I can see why you'd put your back against the wall.
Well, the people protesting and being a general nuisance to everyone else are thick. And if dickheads of insert origin want to behave a certain way, I don't see a problem with saying go to insert country and protest there.
That's not racism. It's racism when I treat people differently based on their racial heritage/ ancestry.
I might point out I live in one of the most multiculturally diverse countries on Earth, with a high rate of intermarriage. It's racist as fuck here generally speaking and the racism comes from everyone. Asians racist against other Asians. Asians racist against blacks. Whites treating Asians as a homogeneous bunch. Indians complaining endlessly about the racism of Australians, yet they pour into the country while still enforcing a caste system...
It seems to be the human condition unfortunately.
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@antipodean yeah equal opportunity dickwads are OK
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@antipodean it's normal to talk shit about each other based on a bunch of things including race. Doesn't mean we are going to commit hate crimes or anything
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@dogmeat said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
@antipodean yeah equal opportunity dickwads are OK
Is that directed at me? I don't consider pointing out to New Zealanders who make dicks of themselves over here to fuck off home makes me a dickwad. It's about being part of a community and enforcing standards so that we don't get judged by what the shitheads do.
@canefan said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
@antipodean it's normal to talk shit about each other based on a bunch of things including race. Doesn't mean we are going to commit hate crimes or anything
For me it's a problem when your actions and utterances create a climate for people to feel like untermenschen or deprive them of goods, services and opportunities.
Giving mates shit about their ethnicity or anything else is different because there's no intent to be harmful or nasty. Unfortunately do-gooders eavesdropping are more than willing to be sanctimonious shitpots taking vicarious umbrage.
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@antipodean these days there are too many people who don't understand the difference between a bit if banter and racial discrimination
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Slightly related and a lot more heartwarming:
'I like the rain': the only Syrian family in a Welsh village
Four months after arriving in the UK under a community sponsorship scheme, one family is settling in and going native
It's not all bad out there.
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@antipodean I was agreeing with this
Well, the people protesting and being a general nuisance to everyone else are thick. And if dickheads of insert origin want to behave a certain way, I don't see a problem with saying go to insert country and protest there.
That's not racism. It's racism when I treat people differently based on their racial heritage/ ancestry.
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I saw a big improvement on racism towards asians in small town rural NZ between when I left for the UK in 2006 and returned in 2013. Way more integration, I guess that stuff takes time. Got some mates who work in fracking and they were telling me about a chinese bloke they work with who they exchange racial taunts with, 'fucken round-eyes', for that he is a good fluffybunny, its just harmless banter especially in that line of work.
I worked in the engineering field for those couple years back which was a pretty big mix of Indian, Maori, PI, saffa and pakeha, again no real racism outside of jokey banter. Worst I've seen is on social media with some friends swallowing the social justice pill as mature students and they've gone a little down the 'white people are the devil' path..but even that has started to dry up as SJWs are routinely mocked (or maybe I've just been defriended for having the wrong opinions)
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@mn5 said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
I'm a privileged middle-aged straight white male. I'm too terrified to say anything cos I might offend someone who isn't like me.
fixed for you bro!
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@taniwharugby said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
@mn5 said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
I'm a privileged middle-aged straight white male. I'm too terrified to say anything cos I might offend someone who isn't like me.
fixed for you bro!
If I'm middle aged you're geriatric....
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@mn5 bummer for you only being 3 years off geriatric then!
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@mn5 said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
I'm a privileged straight white male. I'm too terrified to say anything cos I might offend someone who isn't like me.
Straight huh
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@no-quarter said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
@mn5 said in Racism in New Zealand ... Worth a Chat I think:
I'm a privileged straight white male. I'm too terrified to say anything cos I might offend someone who isn't like me.
Straight huh
More love for the Scottish rugby team than Princess Anne. Just saying.
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It's an interesting topic, and one that is increasingly difficult to discuss with the fringe left loudly screaming RACISM at pretty much everything, poisoning the debate.
Racism exists in NZ, it probably always will, but NZ is not a racist country. There's nothing stopping anyone of any racial background achieving what they want and living a great life. The vast majority of people are not racist, just existing in the real world tells you that, and those that are genuinely racist are generally uneducated idiots with no real sway in society anyway.
As others have mentioned, racism goes in all directions. My wife, who is from PNG, experienced the most racism from Maori where she grew up. My boss is half Samoan half Maori and grew up caught in the crossfire between her parents families racism towards each other. There's always a lot of focus on white people's racism but the rest gets largely ignored. Tribalism is human nature, and takes some conscious effort to overcome - I think NZ is way further down the path of overcoming it than most countries around the world.
The only openly racist comments I sometimes hear these days are directed towards the Chinese, and Labours campaign against the Chinese owning property in NZ definitely brought out the worst in a lot of people, which was a shame.
As to the opening post, I would be very wary of poeple like Eliota as he is basically a professional race hustler, playing on the victimhood theme to keep himself in the limelight and painting a picture of society that does not reflect reality. People like him would do far more damage to the PI population than anyone else with the toxic, racist message they promote. Check out Tariq Nasheed from the States if you want another example of that - those types of people are incredibly frustrating.
