Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks
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Lima's departure has hit me hard. Not because of my unquestionable fanship for the AB's, but for what it is as part of a movement which has gathered serious pace.
I just had dinner with my neighbours (in UK) of which one recently went to a dinner with Eddie Jones. One of Jones point was that England players strive to play for England, as that is the pinnacle .... but NZ players don't strive to play for NZ, they strive to be great All Blacks. He said that NZ has such a unique rugby culture, that nobody should ever ever beat us.
Now look, I'm not stupid enough to think that EJ's comments aren't 100% about building himself up so that when the inevitably do conquer us (be realistic, we are facing them end of season at twix, i can't see us winning, they are a fantastic rugby team), but I'm not buying that 100% of our current team buys into what has historically made us what we are.
How many of the current team do really really buy into what I think the team are selling. I'm not saying Lima has been treated great or anything, but to how may of the team does being a great All Black (and naturally a great NZer) actually mean anything ... ? Maybe it's time to start really asking that question of the players. There is no right or wrong answer, but the playing for country of heritage has gathered some serious steam since Taumalolo in the RLWC and, paralell, that does make the discussion worth opening.
The Fern's pal, Elita Fullofshit Samoan, has pushed the themes of players playing for their heritage as opposed for their country of birth and has been supported strongly by both ex and current AB. IT's a big movement, it cant be ignored.
I strongly belive in the one country laws, strongly. You shouldn't be playing for the AB's to boost your earning potential north. LS has clearly done this. And if in 2 years he wants to play for an island nation, then same as Piutau, I will fight against it. NZ All Blacks should be the pinnacle. Not the stepping stone.
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Sopoaga's is a new low. A dick move. The most selfish I have ever seen.
I think I'm fairly reasonable and don't actually get upset at players moving on (usually). E.g. I was disappointed in Piutau moving but not offended, and thought Hansen was wrong in 2015 to not pick him for the RWC on 'ethical' grounds. But this is poor.
The worst timed since John Timu. The difference being John Timu wasn't already an extremely rich man. Sops is a very rich young man who by abandoning ship 1 year earlier can get a potential leg-up on his mates to be just that little bit richer.
Sopoaga owed some loyalty to his coaches, team mates & employer. IMO. He's shown poor character. That's my assessment.
First-five. It's not kick lock, midfield or the tight-loosies where there are 2 positions to develop depth. First-five is a singular position and he has fucked us around by using up time and resources with no intention of staying the course.
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Hate to see Lima go. But he hasn’t played a lot of rugby the last year. He’s getting into later 20s, probably counting down the days he has left in his life to make a real income. Is that selfish? Yeah. Is it wrong? Depends. We’re all selfish, to one degree or another.
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@salacious-crumb said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
Hate to see Lima go. But he hasn’t played a lot of rugby the last year. He’s getting into later 20s, probably counting down the days he has left in his life to make a real income. Is that selfish? Yeah. Is it wrong? Depends. We’re all selfish, to one degree or another.
Yeah. I realise I'm probably coming over a bit pompous and entitled.
I can have some empathy.
I work in IT contracting. I'm not usually contracted for the entirety of the length of the project. Towards the end of your contract you may get a different offer from somewhere else for money and you take it. I've done that. But I've also come to the conclusion now I'm older that it's worth sticking it out to the end of the project and seeing it through for reputational reasons.
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I'd had a few reds when I wrote the above, but Lima leaving is the catalyst, not the point I was trying to make.
The point is, are the All Blacks the pinnacle for the current players, or just a stepping stone to lucrative contracts elsewhere. I think there is a mix, and I don't like it. I'm not meaning to focus on the pacific island boys, as plenty of others have left earlier too, but combined with all the media coverage from the RLWC, it is in focus.
A few years ago when he was the starting AB tighthead, Tialata told me over twitter he'd always support Samoa over New Zealand. I thought that may have been isolated, but I'm starting to think now that it wasn't.
I get it. You have allegiances to both countries, and you go for the one which will give you the biggest global exposure. But surely that does limit just how much your heart is actually in the game in you'd openly support another team over the one you are playing for.
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Maybe Lima thinks Mounga is about to pass him or has already and I don't think there is any indication he will move ahead of BB so decided the time is right to cash in on his market value instead of hoping for an injury to BB
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@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
Maybe Lima thinks Mounga is about to pass him or has already and I don't think there is any indication he will move ahead of BB so decided the time is right to cash in on his market value instead of hoping for an injury to BB
No doubt, and I think that is he point @MajorRage is making. Some players aspire to make the All Blacks to be great All Blacks, others aspire to make the All Blacks to increase their market value. There's both, and understandably so, but the players just wanting to increase their market value can be a waste of time and effort trying to develop them if they plan on buggering off early.
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@no-quarter I'm not sure he has played solely to drive his value. I expect if circumstances were different and he had nailed the number 10 spot he would have likely stayed on longer.
Some are content being an ab and living in nz, others want a different challenge and depending on family circumstances Europe with higher pay and less strenuous travel requirements would be mighty appealing.
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@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@no-quarter I'm not sure he has played solely to drive his value. I expect if circumstances were different and he had nailed the number 10 spot he would have likely stayed on longer.
Some are content being an ab and living in nz, others want a different challenge and depending on family circumstances Europe with higher pay and less strenuous travel requirements would be mighty appealing.
You got in first T! I'm sure most players still aspire to having a great AB career, since the days they ran around the yard in bare feet. But there is only room for 15, 26 if you count the squad and there is the constant threat of being supplanted by a young turk for those on the fringes. In the amateur era there was no plan B, now you can be lucky enough to play a few games for the ABs filling in for injury or absence and spin that into a 7 figure a year contract up North. Hard to compete with that. The timing is shitty for the ABs though
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@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@no-quarter I'm not sure he has played solely to drive his value. I expect if circumstances were different and he had nailed the number 10 spot he would have likely stayed on longer.
Some are content being an ab and living in nz, others want a different challenge and depending on family circumstances Europe with higher pay and less strenuous travel requirements would be mighty appealing.
I 100% agree with this.
But I hold them to an unwritten 'don't jump ship 12 moths out if you've absorbed resources and games' rule.
I have no issue with cashing in, or even using the ABs to increase your value. As long as that is not timed detrimentally.
I can see that Lima thinks Ritchie may be on verge of surpassing him and he can see selectors want to develop DMac as the bench specialist. But we all know plans get scuttled.
He can go in 24 months time with no repercussions or ill will. He can go in 12 months time letting down a lot of people .
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@rapido Hes given the ABs nearly 12 months notice before he is departing. Its almost two years til the World Cup.
Perhaps the ABs should have picked a specialist 3rd 10 in the Rugby Championship/EOYT 2017 - they would then be in a better position. That isnt Lima's fault.
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@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@no-quarter I'm not sure he has played solely to drive his value. I expect if circumstances were different and he had nailed the number 10 spot he would have likely stayed on longer.
Some are content being an ab and living in nz, others want a different challenge and depending on family circumstances Europe with higher pay and less strenuous travel requirements would be mighty appealing.
Yup, I don't begrudge them for leaving. Big money involved. I can also understand the frustration at them leaving though.
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@no-quarter yep, woulda been nice for him to stay on, but with potentially >twice as much money on offer...
non-competition clauses?
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@mn5 when the Tree was playing was about when you at least watched rugby too!
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@taniwharugby said in Defining Who We Are ... NZ All Blacks:
@mn5 when the Tree was playing was about when you at least watched rugby too!
I'm younger, slimmer, taller and less grey than you. Please take your lame trolling efforts elsewhere.
The tree retired six years before I was born.
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@mn5 fuck yeah
Has fame/entertainment/self entitlement got to the point that people can't recognise the difference between their own lives and someone elses?
@MajorRage your original post was immediately recognisable as a "I've got something to say" at the end of a few drinks high - I been there
