Tauranga Bella Vista Situation
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@KiwiPie @Baron-Silas-Greenback @Donsteppa
I find myself feeling rather sorry for the people involved but then realised I was getting a Journo's interpretation of events.
Do you guys know the full story to this?
Has the council made a real hash brown of this or is the developer to blame or a little from column A and B
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holy shit that sucks!!
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Shit, that sounds awful - although I read the headline as Bella Vista Stadium so I thought the people were getting evicted for a new stadium in Tauranga. As I read down the article I kept waiting for info about the ground.
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@hooroo said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
Has the council made a real hash brown of this or is the developer to blame or a little from column A and B
Like most of this, the fault probably winds up on all parties involved - probably except the purchaser. Some dodginess though, wiht a below value purchase by a chief inspector.
I think just watch and wait ... but it sucks for the people who bought.
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@nzzp said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
@hooroo said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
Has the council made a real hash brown of this or is the developer to blame or a little from column A and B
Like most of this, the fault probably winds up on all parties involved - probably except the purchaser. Some dodginess though, wiht a below value purchase by a chief inspector.
I think just watch and wait ... but it sucks for the people who bought.
I'm naturally skeptical about developers being honest and not illegally cutting corners. I don't know why I have that impression but sometimes when I see developements happen quickly I am wondering how.
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I read a bit in earlier articles. Seems the developer has tried to paint the council into a corner around their staff signing off on consent and overall process for the development block. Seems some pretty essential and standard stuff slipped through, like the geotech reports. Not sure about the relationship with the builder/s as they should (I imagine?) wear any shit for poor workmanship, and the Council should definitely wear it if they then went and signed off on it.
I think the council got pissed at the developer as he found a subdivision loophole that let him get two houses on each section due to a technicality. Sounds like he has an interesting past so there are likely a few layers to this clusterfuck of an onion!
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The thousands of dollars you spend on council fees and costs are clearly well spent.
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I have nothing good to say about the council. Went thought he process of building last year.. clusterfuck. All caused by the same guy who is slow walking nearly every consent in Tga. He i an external consultant based in Hamilton and he is an incompetent fuckstick.
He tried to chuck a section 72 on our title. Totally and utterly unjustified and eventually after great hassle he was over ruled. His company is paid based on how many issues he can 'create'.
There is nothing wrong with those Bella Vista homes IMO. They were shut down on a flimsy excuse and now people are just looking for excuses. -
@baron-silas-greenback said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
They were shut down on a flimsy excuse and now people are just looking for excuses
what do you mean by that?
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@virgil said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
The thousands of dollars you spend on council fees and costs are clearly well spent.
For what I am doing now -$2500 deposit for resource consent (Auckland council). That is a deposit, they can hit you for whatever they like after that.Also resource consent to allow me to move some earth from a high bit to a low bit. All on site, old farm paddocks. Wastewater is from an electricity free, worm system, gravity fed over as much of a 11ha property as needed. Roof runoff into water tanks, overflow into existing stream. That should be about a $20 sign off for a council worker, but no. They will justify their jobs somehow and that isn't even building consent! That isn't even a rant - I can do much better.
As for the developer in Tauranga -"Bella Vista Homes director Danny Cancian says council never asked him to complete geotechnical reports that were required under its rules."
How can anyone develop a site and not get the required geotech? I can understand a home buyer not knowing but FFS a developer. That is bullshit. I can understand him wanting to keep the cost down but he must have known that he needed more done when he doubled the number of houses on the property.
This reeks:
"The lead inspector for the properties revealed he had purchased a Bella Vista home, opposite the affected buildings, before taking on this role. The price paid for his land was significantly lower than the neighbouring properties of similar size. " -
@baron-silas-greenback I've concluded that having to deal with councils never results in anything good for you.
My brother used to manage the local shopping mall and the Tasman District Council (TDC) told him they had to remove some trees adjoining the footpath. So they were there cutting them down when an old guy came along and stroppily asked, "What are you taking those trees out for"?
My brother said, "Because the TDC said we had to".
"TDC?" said the old man incredulously. "You know what that stands for? Two-hundred dumb c*nts"!
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@baron-silas-greenback said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
His company is paid based on how many issues he can 'create'.
I'm going through that now. Paid them a fortune and wish that I done the whole process myself.
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@snowy haha Resource Consents are a way for councils to charge what they want.
Pretty much a way to bribe them to allow you to build something that doesn't meet their rules: these are our rules, however, if you ask us nicely, throw us some $$$, we will consider it...we might ask you to make some changes to your plans, and we will ask for more $$$ too.
TBF some 'rules' are central govt rules, but many are tweaked locally.
When I was in Buildign Compliance at the WDC, I shook my head so many times at dumb rules I had to see a Chiropractor!
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Danny Cancian the builder of those houses has an “ interesting “ past , some of it comes up with google some doesn’t.
If you know of him from his time on the Kapiti coast seeing him up to his eyeballs in the shit again is not exactly a surprise.
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@taniwharugby In this case the rules are shoving some soil into a hole about 20m away (in the middle of nowhere on 22 acres).
The chiropractor bills would have been picked up by the council surely (and must be a common occurrence) - fees from the consents. They should itemise it on the bill.
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Local councils always have a their hands out demanding $$$, but as soon as something goes pear shaped or major issues arise ( leaky home cluster fuck) they scurry like rats and try their best to divert the blame.
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@mariner4life said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
@baron-silas-greenback said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
They were shut down on a flimsy excuse and now people are just looking for excuses
what do you mean by that?
The people were kicked out because supposedly the houses were unsafe, ALOT has come out showing that those who declared them unsafe (like the fuckstick I dealt with) were just incompetent. The suposed issues were not issues, and indeed after a lot of rain.. nothing has eroded or collapsed. And supposed drainage issue were not actually drainage issues at all.
Alot of geo techs have come and stated that the houses are perfectly fine, but now everyone is firmly painted into corners.
Imagine when you built your house and someone came long form the council the day before a big storm and declared it unsafe because of XXX would be a disatster after heavy rain, you left, other geo techs said nah it is ok, but the council would not listen because they are now scared. Eventually months later after a lot of rain and XXX easily surviving and no damage occurring to your house.... the council still wont budge. -
@jegga said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
Danny Cancian the builder of those houses has an “ interesting “ past , some of it comes up with google some doesn’t.
If you know of him from his time on the Kapiti coast seeing him up to his eyeballs in the shit again is not exactly a surprise.
Totally true. His shady actions have camouflaged alot of the other incompetence. Just blame the shift developer!
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@virgil said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
Local councils always have a their hands out demanding $$$, but as soon as something goes pear shaped or major issues arise ( leaky home cluster fuck) they scurry like rats and try their best to divert the blame.
That is exactly the point Virg. If the council want to charge massive fees to ensure building safety and compliance, then they have to be culpable when there is a fuck up and the building isn't safe or compliant.
I wonder what happens to a building inspector that signs of on a property that is later proven to be defective?
I do blame a lot of modern architecture for leaky homes - but that is a different argument.
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@snowy said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
I wonder what happens to a building inspector that signs of on a property that is later proven to be defective?
That my issue with this.. they have not been proven to be defective.
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defective workmanship or a defective product are obviously quite different things.
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@baron-silas-greenback said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
@snowy said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
I wonder what happens to a building inspector that signs of on a property that is later proven to be defective?
That my issue with this.. they have not been proven to be defective.
Understand. It does sound like a dodgy developer, maybe a corrupt inspector, have put together something that the council don't trust rather than is actually a problem. The home owners get screwed.
I really wish I hadn't read this given where I am at with my build. Fortunately no dodgy developer, other than me.
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@taniwharugby said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
defective workmanship or a defective product are obviously quite different things.
They are talking workmanship here I believe.
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@baron-silas-greenback said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
@mariner4life said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
@baron-silas-greenback said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
They were shut down on a flimsy excuse and now people are just looking for excuses
what do you mean by that?
The people were kicked out because supposedly the houses were unsafe, ALOT has come out showing that those who declared them unsafe (like the fuckstick I dealt with) were just incompetent. The suposed issues were not issues, and indeed after a lot of rain.. nothing has eroded or collapsed. And supposed drainage issue were not actually drainage issues at all.
Alot of geo techs have come and stated that the houses are perfectly fine, but now everyone is firmly painted into corners.
Imagine when you built your house and someone came long form the council the day before a big storm and declared it unsafe because of XXX would be a disatster after heavy rain, you left, other geo techs said nah it is ok, but the council would not listen because they are now scared. Eventually months later after a lot of rain and XXX easily surviving and no damage occurring to your house.... the council still wont budge.right, gotcha.
How old are the houses?
Even if the people are allowed back in, what are the insurance companies going to do to them?
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@baron-silas-greenback said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
I have nothing good to say about the council. Went thought he process of building last year.. clusterfuck. All caused by the same guy who is slow walking nearly every consent in Tga. He i an external consultant based in Hamilton and he is an incompetent fuckstick.
He tried to chuck a section 72 on our title. Totally and utterly unjustified and eventually after great hassle he was over ruled. His company is paid based on how many issues he can 'create'.
There is nothing wrong with those Bella Vista homes IMO. They were shut down on a flimsy excuse and now people are just looking for excuses.I must be the only dumb one replying as I thought I would see someone else asking.
What is a section 72??
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@hooroo it is where the land is prone to flooding, stability etc.
Think on older properties is a section 36 (will show on your Certificate of Title)
All it means is that when you build you have to get a Engineers report to show that what you are doing and how the risk will be mitigated.
Of particular note is many coastal properties now have to be built at a higher than normal ground level due to global warming and rising seas.
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@taniwharugby said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
@hooroo it is where the land is prone to flooding, stability etc.
Think on older properties is a section 36 (will show on your Certificate of Title)
All it means is that when you build you have to get a Engineers report to show that what you are doing and how the risk will be mitigated.
Of particular note is many coastal properties now have to be built at a higher than normal ground level due to global warming and rising seas.
be very very careful and get legal advice. As @taniwharugby it inidicates there is a natural hazard that affects the site. This usually means that you can't get insurance, and if you can't get insurance, you usually can't get a mortgage.
So, be very careful. Get legal advice.
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What the hell did I just read. Clusterfuck doesn't even begin to describe the situation. (Not to mention the admiring tone in some of the sentences regarding Cancian were just gross.)
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And the cost of buying the houses plus the extensive legal costs of this have just been dumped on Taurangas ratepayers .
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12065714
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@jegga said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
And the cost of buying the houses plus the extensive legal costs of this have just been dumped on Taurangas ratepayers .
alternatively
The Council are wearing the cost of not meeting their legal obligations under the Building Act and permitting houses to be built that are not safe to occupy.
When cockups liek this occur, no one comes out ahead. It's going to be $10M for Council, which is the thick end of a hundred bucks a household I'd say. Expensive stuff up.
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@mokey you know those words you were researching the other day... quite appropriate for that bottom dweller.
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I wonder if TCC has some sort of indemnity insurance for situations where a staff member (or members) fucked up. Surely they must have something, because it is incredibly unfair to ask ratepayers to stump up for this.
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@nzzp said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
@jegga said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
And the cost of buying the houses plus the extensive legal costs of this have just been dumped on Taurangas ratepayers .
alternatively
The Council are wearing the cost of not meeting their legal obligations under the Building Act and permitting houses to be built that are not safe to occupy.
When cockups liek this occur, no one comes out ahead. It's going to be $10M for Council, which is the thick end of a hundred bucks a household I'd say. Expensive stuff up.
Unfortunately the council aren’t really wearing anything, the ratepayers are being stuck with the tab for this . It’d be interesting to know where Cancian got a hold of $1.3 million in cash .
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@mokey they will have insurance, I doubt it has changed but there is an Insurer for all the councils (set up by the Govt originally I believe)
But as above, if it comes back to faulty products the council were not aware of, then that wont be on the concils insurer, but will inevitably fall to rate payers to foot the bill as these shonky developers no doubt just go bankrupt and start again in another guise somewhere else.
The developers should have thier own cover as well, as do the designers, architects, builders etc...but then that would have meant the council did thier due diligence making sure contractors had the appropriate cover too.
The exposure to risk on a large development it just mind boggling
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@taniwharugby Yep. And it especially doesn't help if the council employee signing off the consents got a cut price deal with the developer for a house. Jesus.
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A great big bloody mess.
Perhaps we can turn the houses into a museum...........
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@mokey said in Tauranga Bella Vista Situation:
@taniwharugby Yep. And it especially doesn't help if the council employee signing off the consents got a cut price deal with the developer for a house. Jesus.
that looks really bad. Declared, but still looks really bad.
Building Act 2004
