Waratahs v Highlanders - QF



  • @mariner4life

    I liked that original post because I agree that right now 15 is easily his best position, where he gets to use his natural tools (height, kick, he has a nice swerve/outside break too) while filling a position where we are (surprisingly) a bit weak and need a new longer termer.

    Midfield on the other hand is an area of riches - at 2nd, we still have Laumape and ALB plus Goodhue - after SBW and Crotty leave. Plus Rieko (probably) moving there in the future. I don’t even see a need for him to play midfield for the Canes unless Laumape, Proctor, Aso etc. are injured. And they are young too.

    I suspect he could be a very useful 2nd five eighth, but right now he’s (IMO) our in front at 15, and who’s behind him? Honestly, if I was going to ask him to cover a position, I’d ask him to be ready to cover 1st (as secondary cover) and have him trying be a second first receiver by swapping out with whoever is at first. I reckon B.B. will bolt after the next WC so we’ll be left with Dmac, Mo’unga, and?



  • @gt12 I think JB has all the tools to be a great FB, and i look forward to him developing them. He's started pretty bloody well, and being so young he has so much time to get better. I actually have no interest in moving him, because FB is probably one of the most important positions in the AB system now.

    As for who is going to play 10, better get Canterbury to fire up the production line again. I think it is in the national interest if they rebuild that before the stadium to be honest.



  • @mariner4life

    That’s a good point, as long as either Dmac or Mo’unga work out, we should be fine until Canterbury (or Horowhenua) inevitably cranks our another cracker.



  • @gt12 Yeah - I can't see the point in trying to shift Jordie to the midfield, when we have a number of good options there. Similarly with Rieko.

    After the RWC, I reckon SBW, Crotty and BFA will be gone and they can be covered - hopefully - by Laumape, ALB and Goodhue in the midfield, and Jordie at fullback.

    Shift Jordie to the midfield and you've probably got Havili or DMac to start at fullback (maybe Alaimalo) - while DMac is potentially also our first five cover - or even our first five!

    Beauden better not turn out to be a treacherous money-grubbing little Hurricanes shit or I will have some harsh words to say about him. 🙂 He's got another full World Cup cycle in him.

    One of the problems for the Highlanders (and the reason Quade is in the picture) is that we've been hurt at Super level by the defections of too many first fives - Cruden, Sopoaga, Slade, Banks, Taylor, Bleyendaal just off the top of my head.

    The position that most concerns me for the future though, is lock. Where are the plus two-metre locks who will replace the lineout power of Retallick and Whitelock?

    Pari Pari Parkinson has that size, but who else?


  • Banned

    @mariner4life said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    SBW is tall, but also huge and powerful. McLeod was also big, but i would hesitate to throw him up as a midfielder players should aspire to. Just because players are of a similar height doesn't mean they have the same physical attributes.

    Rancid i never said he wasn't quick, he's obviously quick, but i don't see explosive speed.

    His height was one thing i mentioned, among a list of reasons. Fuck even suggesting a Barrett isn't the 2nd coming gets some of your panties in a bunch.

    JB is a big, tall, languid, silky (well, when he grows in to his body) giraffe, who has all the attributes to be a very good 15 when he grows up a bit. Right now, i don't see him as a 12, nor is there any real reason to move him from his current spot.

    And i am talking test rugby here. I could give a fuck about the Hurricanes, play him at halfback if you want.

    Panties in a bunch? Dammit I never said he was the second coming I was simply responding to your critique of him at 12. There was nothing aggressive or anything indicating butthurt in my post.

    Have I thrown sand in your vag recently?



  • @gt12 said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    Plus Rieko (probably) moving there in the future.

    Troll!



  • @chester-draws said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    I have to confess "too tall" to be a 2nd five confuses me.

    Scott McLeod and Kahui weren't exactly midgets. Nor is SBW.

    It does rule out the low centre of gravity hit-up man, but that just means they need another trick. SBW is able to reach over and around a tackler to pop up a ball. McLeod had a fantastic wide pass, so his centre could stand wide. Kahui did his best work on defence.

    Blistering pace or a really good swerve is best put at centre, but any guy who can give his outsides the ball in space can play 12. I'm not saying Jordie is best at 12, but his height doesn't bother me one bit.

    Usain Bolt is "too tall" to be a sprinter, if you go by body mechanics, because big men don't have acceleration of shorter ones. It just happens that his strengths overcome his weaknesses.

    Don't forget old mate Greenwood, Jauzion....up there with the best and both about 25 feet tall.



  • @chris-b said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    Pari Pari Parkinson has that size, but who else?

    Quentin Strange must be close to 2m? An All Black in waiting



  • @mariner4life said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    @gt12 I think JB has all the tools to be a great FB, and i look forward to him developing them. He's started pretty bloody well, and being so young he has so much time to get better. I actually have no interest in moving him, because FB is probably one of the most important positions in the AB system now.

    As for who is going to play 10, better get Canterbury to fire up the production line again. I think it is in the national interest if they rebuild that before the stadium to be honest.

    I'm with you on leaving JB at 15 - he's very classy at the back. I wasn't actually advocating moving him, just pointing out that the comparison between Rieko at 12 (no sense) and Jordie at 12 (could actually work) was ridiculous.



  • @sammyc Strange is listed at 1.99 and Scott Barrett at 1.97.

    But they're a comparatively small pair compared to Retallick 2.04 and Whitelock 2.02. Giving away two inches apiece and I reckon that height is pretty important.



  • @no-quarter I dont think there was a comparison....it all started with this by @booboo

    @booboo said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    @rancid-schnitzel said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    @crucial said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    @act-crusader said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    @no-quarter said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    @act-crusader said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    @sammyc said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    Alainono > bridge > lam in my opinion.

    Alaimono has been great this year, on attack and defense. Also gets himself involved in close of play doesn’t run his way.

    Agree.

    Lam seems a poor mans Hosea Gear to me. All the physical attributes and can look a world beater every now and then, but goes missing for the most part and is waiting for the action rather than being a creator.

    Lam is a great finisher but he doesn't have the all-round game of someone like Alaimalo, and I agree he does tend to go missing at times. He's more competing with Rieko for the power winger spot IMO.

    Ioane is not a winger. He is a midfielder. Ask Tana

    Or ask most Blues 'fans' before he was used there and shown up. It was like the endless cries for JB to be shifted to the midfield despite evidence to the contrary at this level.

    Is JB Jordie Barrett? I don't think a single person has wanted him at 13. Any "cries" have been for 12, where he has yet to play this level.

    Reiko to 12
    JB to 13

    That'd work 🙂

    Haven't had a 15 at 13 since we last lost an RWC.



  • @taniwharugby I was referring to Crucials post earlier in the thread 🙂



  • @chris-b Dickson?



  • @bones Josh? 2.00 m according to his Highlanders' profile.

    Which is getting there, but still a bit short of Retallick, Big Bird height.

    Parkinson is 2.04 - same as BBBR (and 117kg).



  • @chris-b bugger.



  • Scrafton is 2.00 m. He is a better prospect than Josh Dickson IMO.
    Vaa'i, who played for the NZ schools last year, looks very big and tall.
    I reckon Pari Pari Parkinson is the one who is the more Retallick-like. If he can put on 3 or 4 kgs of additional muscle, he'll be OK as he is very skilled for such a tall guy. However, the best for the AB would be another four years with Retallick.



  • @mariner4life said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    @crucial said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    @african-monkey said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    @crucial A bit like you trying to defend the Blues and the coaching staff every week and telling Blues fans on here that we were out of line with our criticisms over and over....

    Would be similar if that's what actually happened.

    yea, for a while there you kinda did. But even you gave up on it.

    I 'kinda did' , 'for a while'.

    That sounds a hell of a lot different to ' trying to defend the Blues and the coaching staff every week'

    Just to be clear so that hopefully this isn't TSF fake news that becomes true because it keeps getting repeated in accusations.....

    Yes, I defended the coach. In the aspect that I don't consider him to be a 'celebrity coach' as accused. Umaga is no more a celebrity coach than Scott Robertson. Robertson may be a better coach but Umaga's 'failings' have nothing to do with being an ex-player.

    No, I didn't defend the Blues. I have also been critical of their ineptitude at times and of the organisation and structure in the area.

    What I did do though, was try to put some understanding around their position over and above 'change the coach'. In short summary these are the points I made, and still stand by.

    1. 5 Super Teams in NZ means that we don't have enough 'great' players to go around. The nature of professional sport means that good players will aim to play for teams with good prospects. The rich get richer etc

    2. Once a team is at the bottom of a conference, getting it back up relies not only on good coaching/recruitment/culture and organisation, it also requires luck with injuries and hoping another conference team gets weaker.

    3. One team in our system is destined to be the runt. Unfortunately it is the Blues at the moment. Their challenge is to turn one of the other 4 into the whipping boy.

    4. Once you are the bottom team you get the extra challenge of a shittier draw.

    5. A losing culture is very difficult to turn around. A coach joining a winning organisation can look much better and have the scope to concentrate on maintain a high standard rather than creating one.

    6. Desperate players do dumb things.

    Earlier in the season I also added in that these challenges were made harder by injuries. Yes, the Chiefs managed to overcome similar impact but they had the advantage over the Blues of a very strong internal culture based on previous success. They were also carried through a very tough period by standout performances by 'best in the world' players the Blues don't have in the right positions. (hence the temptation to get their only world class player closer to the action)

    I didn't 'give up on it'. I made my point, answered some debate on my view then let it lie. No reason to keep hammering away points I had already made.

    I completely agree that The Blues have been shite and underperformed. I agree that the coach has not managed to rise to the challenges. But I also acknowledge that those challenges are very hard and searching for a wonder solution is not going to work either.

    Sumo Stevenson wrote an interesting piece about the Blues earlier in the year around how (having pretty good access to players across different franchises) he had noticed that their wasn't the same 'band of brothers' feel about them compared to other teams. His assessment was that it was, in big part, due to the city itself. Players having to spend time commuting to and from training/games that other teams used for bonding. Having a coffee together after work, time to hang around together when not formally 'at work' etc

    Another element that the organisation hasn't found a solution for.



  • Back on topic.....how bad were those Highlanders to lose to that Aussie team



  • @act-crusader said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    Back on topic.....how bad were those Highlanders to lose to that Aussie team

    Nah, boring.

    I'd also like to point out that I wasn't advocating Jordie to 12. Just that of all the things against him, his height, isn't one that should matter.



  • @crucial said in Waratahs v Highlanders - QF:

    What I did do though, was try to put some understanding around their position over and above 'change the coach'. In short summary these are the points I made, and still stand by.

    You make some good points. And, in fairness, Tana came in with some coaching credentials - the team just doesn't look well coached. I'm not sure why, but after 3 years the responsibility has to lie with Tana.

    I realised last night that we should be over the highlanders with Sopoaga leaving. The fact htey are looking for Quade as a possibility tells you all you need to know about their depth at 10. Not good. Most years the series against the highlanders is the difference between playoffs and also-rans. This year not so much as we shat the bed, but going back that was certainly the case.

    It's bloody tough trying to get a struggling team going in the NZ conference. A proper round robin would suit us far more.

    Anyway, some of us still support them, even if it feels like getting smacked with a bit of 2x4 on a daily basis.


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