Build A Waterfront Stadium



  • @dogmeat but Winston said he'd do it!



  • @booboo POA is council owned Tga is publically listed



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  • @dogmeat said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    @booboo POA is council owned Tga is publically listed

    True, but not the whole story, a lot of the shares in POT are owned by the regional council via Quayside holdings



  • @baron-silas-greenback said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    @dogmeat said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    @baron-silas-greenback Issues with MP is getting the freight south.

    The Northern Line would need squillions spent on it to bring it up to a state where it could handle the freight. There has been a lack of investment over the years plus the infrastructure can't handle the size of carriage needed to move it. So you are talking widening tunnels building new viaducts etc.

    Effectively you would be building a new 130km line as opposed to a 25 km one.

    Then you have the problem of moving all that freight through the Akl isthmus which will put it in conflict with Akl Transports requirements for commuter rail. Of course you could alternatively put hundreds more artics a day onto SH1 but that creates a whole lot of different issues.

    MP sounds great in that there is already a deep sea port there. But its tiny and its remote. I think the analysis shows the Firth option working out cheaper.

    I think the analysis is full of shite then. Not only do you have to build a rail liks in a few directions,you have to actually build a deep water port into an estuary.... and then all the infrastructure around a port has to be created. Where would you get the marshaling, stevedoring and transport labour .. let alone the supporting industries labour.
    Where is this analysis that claims Firth option working out cheaper? Should be fascinating fiction story to read at bed time.

    The workforce part would be the easy part in my mind (we get people into Kawerau and Tokoroa easily enough) People will move for jobs.

    I don't get the estuary part of your post? Surely they wouldn't look at building and widening the estuary, it would be further north, wouldn't it?

    For future proofing, to me, it would make more sense building there than at the end of a funnel which would be expanding MP. It would link into the inland port at Ruakura more easily if that also goes ahead.



  • There's a big difference between Thames and Firth of Thames.

    One is a town at the muddy end of a firth, the other is a large body of water including deepwater sites close to Auckland.



  • Yep Firth of Thames site is within the Akl City boundaries and relatively close to Wiri

    This guy has a lot of detail for anyone interested

    http://www.martynevans.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Presentation-copyright1.pdf



  • @dogmeat

    Hmmm ... thought bubbling further if PoA does not have public shareholders expecting a profit, and if Council dies not have an obligation to run a port itself, there would likely be a way to sell Auckland's business to Tga in a mutually beneficial arrangement.

    Already a rail line through the Kaimais ...



  • @booboo POA offered to but Tga's container business and got rebuffed.

    Council gets about 50 mill dividend p.a. so definitely have a shareholder expecting a dividend.

    Also illustrates a massive conflict of interest when it comes to harbourside developments



  • @booboo said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    @dogmeat

    Hmmm ... thought bubbling further if PoA does not have public shareholders expecting a profit, and if Council dies not have an obligation to run a port itself, there would likely be a way to sell Auckland's business to Tga in a mutually beneficial arrangement.

    Already a rail line through the Kaimais ...

    That would still require Tauranga to probably almost double their capacity. Assuming current quays run near capacity, as both operations are nose to nose for biggest nz port

    NOt sure if PoT have the space to expand?

    I think the 'no new port in Firth' viewpoint is that Marsaden Point and Tauranga between them expand to absorb Auckland's capacity.



  • I think an in water stadium is madness. It's going to leak, you just know it



  • @canefan said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    I think an in water stadium is madness. It's going to leak, you just know it

    Technical comment, but there's not a lot of difference between basements and the sea. most basements are belwo the groundwater table and have the risk of seepages into the basement. Modern waterproofing is most excellent.



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  • @machpants shit, I should have said storied.

    Waterproofing is most storied, dude 🙂



  • @nzzp said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    @machpants shit, I should have said storied.

    Waterproofing is most storied.
    Discuss

    Fixed it for you bro 🙂



  • @nzzp said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    @canefan said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    I think an in water stadium is madness. It's going to leak, you just know it

    Technical comment, but there's not a lot of difference between basements and the sea. most basements are belwo the groundwater table and have the risk of seepages into the basement. Modern waterproofing is most excellent.

    My mate waterproofed her basement reno 5 years ago. It leaks like a bastard. Just because you can doesn't mean you should



  • @dogmeat said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    • A stadium is a poor use of such a prime site. As I have said before - there's a reason renders of stadia are always night shots with stands brilliantly lit up a people spilling out into the surrounding area. The reality is that during the day every one of them is effectively and blank walled citadel 13 stories high with no activity or street level engagement.

    I disagree on this one - the MCG and Skydome in Toronto are both large, downtown stadiums and look great IMO.

    As you say though we do have a tendency to do things on the cheap, so constructing a 50,000 toilet is always a possibility.



  • @canefan said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    . Just because you can doesn't mean you should

    There's something that worries me about this project. Just have that suspicion that if you try to get too fancy anything that could go wrong will go wrong.

    Just have a Montreal Olympic Stadium vibe about it.



  • @booboo said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    @canefan said in Build A Waterfront Stadium:

    . Just because you can doesn't mean you should

    There's something that worries me about this project. Just have that suspicion that if you try to get too fancy anything that could go wrong will go wrong.

    Just have a Montreal Olympic Stadium vibe about it.

    For sure. So many things could go wrong and construction costs will be much greater. Will they need to build a dry dock of sorts just to construct the stadium? They should keep it simple



  • I thought that we had done the leaky building thing already...this could be a whole other level.

    We already have the tepid baths for swimming in downtown AKL, and a harbour.

    There does appear to be some pessimism about all this - perhaps it is just experience.