Christchurch Gunman in Mosque


  • Banned

    @Siam said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Salacious-Crumb said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    They can’t seal the trial, but they can refuse cameras. His words are enough, nobody needs to see & hear this psychopath.

    I'm the opposite mate.

    I want to hear lots about ALL mass terrorists.

    For 20 years now the western world has been cowering behind this Terrorist adjective and I'm fuggen sick of it.

    like all existential threats I think we should research and educate about these menaces. We should face these fears head on and in the light so we're not scared of them, and more importantly so our Fuggen ruling classes can't continue trotting out fear and "mummy knows best" circular announcements all the while fast tracking surveilance and restrictive laws and regulations upon a population that is forced to say "well sure, if you say so..."

    20 years and not one improvement on terrorism!!! If so, where?

    We've smashed poverty, cut violent crime dramatically, and connected the world through hand held devices in that time but not a single new thing about terrorists than, "lone wolf", "radical" or "white supremacist".

    We know what makes a paedo (broadly speaking), we know what contributes to violent individuals, we know what to do in an earthquake, we know how to look for suicide candidates, we know all about all manner of existential threats but when it comes to terrorist killers we're fobbed off with the "can't tell you, it might encourage others bullshit"

    Encourage fuggen who? All we know the likely candidates are, is Islamic extremists and white supremacists. That's it. We're encouraged that white men are the danger yet nearly ALL the terrorists are brown men AND women. What is the difference between a muslim and an Islamic terrorist? (my 72 year old mother asked me that, I've yet to deliver a compelling, succinct explanation). So what makes an Islamic terrorist do what they do? (yes i have Muslim friends and family, wife grew up in muslim regions, so don't start that nonsense - they can't articulate the difference either!)

    The other classic is "Don't give his identity, don't give him his fame"

    Too fuggen late!!! from about the time these cocks pull the first trigger. It's not 1919, where you can deny a story simply by just not telling it!

    No, enough I reckon - 20 years of being shackled by "Terror Threat". All the laws passed to cease this threat - none of it has worked! (they say it has though....)

    So why can't we find out what makes a terrorist and have that broadcasted and disseminated accurately. All these pricks, white, black and brown.
    What changed them?
    What did they read? honestly.
    Who preached to them?
    What were the signs they were heading down a dark path?
    What organisations were involved?
    How strong was the religious fervour?
    What services might have stopped this trajectory? Suicide helpline type services useful?
    What can somebody do if they feel marginalised?
    What made them do it?
    Was it worth it? Why?

    We do all this for suicide and we're all about 5 million times more likely to have our lives disrupted by suicide than by a nut job terrorist, but no we're treated like ignorant children scared by the notion of a random boogey man lurking just around the corner, tomorrow maybe.

    For context, I'm not suggesting the trial be the forum for this but imagine a NZ government that put together a team to disseminate this pricks life and have mature public discussions and references for what made Voldermort here turn troppo, andhow many more people feel specifically like he does. And what can we do so as not to feel helpless to terrorism - you'd almost think extolling terror was good for business or being in office...

    Shine light on our fears

    Anyone asking for suppression of the high resolution facts, causes or motives of terrorists is either maintaining control or too scared to look life in the face

    I'm not scared of these fluffybunnies, but I am sick of them!
    In my opinion 🙂

    Excellent post Siam. I'm not sure why there is this obsession with putting the lid on everything in this case. The atrocity has already been committed. Is it out of respect to the victims? If that's the case then no info, pics etc of any murderer or criminal should be provided.

    I just remember being in Norway when Anders Bering Breivik killed 69 people, many of them kids. The trial and the spot light on him didn't glamourise him. It accentuated what a monster he was and the horror of the atrocities he committed. He didn't appear as a hero of the far-right but as a coward who shot people in the back and surrendered immediately when the police came. He was exposed as a crackpot and nutcase.

    Bring these vampires into the light. You stand a better chance of killing them than in the dark.



  • @booboo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Rembrandt said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    Anyone know why the u-turn over terrorist charges? From memory they weren't going to go down that route as it could result in more of a shit show

    They haven't said I don't think. I disagree with calling it terrorism. They should reduce it to what it was, some quack with a gun

    There's a fair number of people that believe that if the perpetrator is brown it is terrorism, if white then it's not. So I think that may have played into the decision to charge terrorism.

    I kind of agree with you though, it's not easy to discern the ideology he was following as he is just all over the place and appears to be more of a troll trying to start conflict than anything else. You could call him an ethno-nationalist I guess but then he praised black people in the States so...

    Thought the highlighted text above qualified as terrorism.

    Ethno-nationalist absolutely qualifies as terrorism.

    What concerns me most about Tarrant is not that he is a white nationalist, but that he isn't. If he isn't (and I don' think he is) then ironic nihilist 'shitposting' internet culture has become a threat - essentially trolling has spilled over into actual violence.

    People (well those that got to read it) look at his manifesto as either sincere or trolling. But it was actually kind of both - sincere AND trolling. That means the threshold of hate for committing heinous acts is lowered to just shitposting/trolling. There are some seriously disturbed people hanging out in the worlds of 8chan, the last thing we want is that spilling over into the real world.

    None of what Jacinda has proposed even addresses what I'm talking about; to be honest I don't think there is anyone in parliament that even understands the sub-cultures that have grown in places like 4chan/8chan and what motivates people like Tarrant to do what he did.



  • Tarrant's document is still censored. So please don't discuss the contents



  • @Duluth said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    Tarrant's document is still censored. So please don't discuss the contents

    Which itself is pretty incredible in a supposedly free society.


  • Banned

    @Kirwan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Duluth said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    Tarrant's document is still censored. So please don't discuss the contents

    Which itself is pretty incredible in a supposedly free society.

    I was just going to ask whether it was ok to criticize or critique the reason for it being censored. Is it or is that a bit risky too?

    It's incredible I even have to ask that.



  • @Rancid-Schnitzel said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    Excellent post Siam. I'm not sure why there is this obsession with putting the lid on everything in this case.

    The reply was made to me, so respectfully, where did I mention “putting a lid on everything in this case”?

    The atrocity has already been committed. Is it out of respect to the victims? If that's the case then no info, pics etc of any murderer or criminal should be provided.

    This was an act of political violence. It was not a garden variety assault, rape or murder. If it was, then it would not have been a huge international story.

    We haven’t seen nor heard this guy yet, beyond his “manifesto.”

    If you think white supremacist groups and grifters aren’t going to use carefully edited footage of Tarrant to promote their pathology and recruitment, I believe you are being naive. It will be a gift for them. They’ll frame him as a hero and martyr, with video as their proof. That’s my objection, and there’s nothing remotely obsessive about it. Careful with the strawmen arguments, please..


  • Banned

    @Salacious-Crumb said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Rancid-Schnitzel said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    Excellent post Siam. I'm not sure why there is this obsession with putting the lid on everything in this case.

    The reply was made to me, so respectfully, where did I mention “putting a lid on everything in this case”?

    The atrocity has already been committed. Is it out of respect to the victims? If that's the case then no info, pics etc of any murderer or criminal should be provided.

    This was an act of political violence. It was not a garden variety assault, rape or murder. If it was, then it would not have been a huge international story.

    We haven’t seen nor heard this guy yet, beyond his “manifesto.”

    If you think white supremacist groups and grifters aren’t going to use carefully edited footage of Tarrant to promote their pathology and recruitment, I believe you are being naive. It will be a gift for them. They’ll frame him as a hero and martyr, with video as their proof. That’s my objection, and there’s nothing remotely obsessive about it. Careful with the strawmen arguments, please..

    What on earth are you on about? My post had absolutely nothing to do with you. I didn't even read what you posted. It was a response to Siam and the current policies of the govt.



  • @Kirwan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Duluth said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    Tarrant's document is still censored. So please don't discuss the contents

    Which itself is pretty incredible in a supposedly free society.

    Good thing we have a virtuous PM and anointed reporters who are allowed to report on what was in it so we don't have to worry our pretty heads over what might be in it and that we can only assume our leaders actions are the correct ones in response.

    I see 21 months prison for that bloke who shared the video. He's a grade A racist fluffybunny without a doubt..but gotta love that precedent. I wonder what that 16 year old is going to get?

    Accept the truth your government gives you or go to prison.

    "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past"



  • Surprisingly the accused has today announced he is pleading guilty to all charges.

    Saves us some money I guess



  • @dogmeat wanted the headlines back!



  • Maybe we should send him to be checked out for COVID-19 ……...



  • @dogmeat said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    Maybe we should send him to be checked out for COVID-19 ……...

    Not a huge fan of the death penalty but I would shoot this guy myself.



  • I'd be making a phone call to Dutton asking him to meet this guy at Sydney airport.



  • He might the first to get life without parole.



  • @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    He might the first to get life without parole.

    We really need to question the system if he doesn't.



  • @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    He might the first to get life without parole.

    We really need to question the system if he doesn't.

    If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.



  • @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    He might the first to get life without parole.

    We really need to question the system if he doesn't.

    If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.

    Some things we do in life don't deserve that question to be asked.



  • @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    He might the first to get life without parole.

    We really need to question the system if he doesn't.

    If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.

    Some things we do in life don't deserve that question to be asked.

    The rule of law requires it, but the ideology and actions suggest someone who can't safely be released ever, so the judge can justify it easily enough.

    That also means he can't be deported, but that's worth it IMO.



  • @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    He might the first to get life without parole.

    We really need to question the system if he doesn't.

    If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.

    Some things we do in life don't deserve that question to be asked.

    The rule of law requires it, but the ideology and actions suggest someone who can't safely be released ever, so the judge can justify it easily enough.

    That also means he can't be deported, but that's worth it IMO.

    Yep. Like you said, if this crime doesn't meet the threshold you'd have to wonder what would. Might as well strike it from the books if you can't use it here.



  • @Kirwan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    He might the first to get life without parole.

    We really need to question the system if he doesn't.

    If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.

    Some things we do in life don't deserve that question to be asked.

    The rule of law requires it, but the ideology and actions suggest someone who can't safely be released ever, so the judge can justify it easily enough.

    That also means he can't be deported, but that's worth it IMO.

    Yep. Like you said, if this crime doesn't meet the threshold you'd have to wonder what would. Might as well strike it from the books if you can't use it here.

    The only shadow of doubt is if he's finally listening to his lawyers and the guilty plea is aimed at avoiding life without parole and solitary confinement which is what he was staring down the barrel of.



  • @Godder surely the solitary is in the inetrest of his safety as opposed to 'further/added punishment'

    Not that I care about his safety, but just what I would think it is for??



  • @taniwharugby Safety yes, but also that he might infect the other inmates with his beliefs, so if he has renounced his beliefs, then that will stop being an issue (eventually).



  • @Godder thats trusting him when he says he has changed his way of thinking...



  • @taniwharugby I doubt anyone will actually believe it for years, but maybe in 20 years or something.



  • @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    He might the first to get life without parole.

    We really need to question the system if he doesn't.

    If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.

    Some things we do in life don't deserve that question to be asked.

    The rule of law requires it, but the ideology and actions suggest someone who can't safely be released ever, so the judge can justify it easily enough.

    That also means he can't be deported, but that's worth it IMO.

    Deportation isn't the best answer anyway.



  • @Smudge said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    He might the first to get life without parole.

    We really need to question the system if he doesn't.

    If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.

    Some things we do in life don't deserve that question to be asked.

    The rule of law requires it, but the ideology and actions suggest someone who can't safely be released ever, so the judge can justify it easily enough.

    That also means he can't be deported, but that's worth it IMO.

    Deportation isn't the best answer anyway.

    Even better! Dump him at Darling Harbour with no conviction and let them see what cleaning up garbage you had no part in looks like.



  • @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    @Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:

    He might the first to get life without parole.

    We really need to question the system if he doesn't.

    If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.

    Some things we do in life don't deserve that question to be asked.

    The rule of law requires it, but the ideology and actions suggest someone who can't safely be released ever, so the judge can justify it easily enough.

    That also means he can't be deported, but that's worth it IMO.

    Good.

    After the debacle with releasing the Rainbow Warrior bombers, I don't want anyone being let loose from NZ until they've served their time.

    And this clown will find life harder on New Zealand soil.

    Should just be cemented into his cell for life.


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