Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions
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@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:
FWIW, most people I speak to here in Sydney are happy to see the back of him, and think RA has done the right thing.
The usual blowhards are defending Folau, but I don't think the public are behind them.
Certainly would be interesting to see the crowd reaction if Izzy returns to the field.
Probably the only more annoying thing he could be doing is turning up unannounced at your door with a suited up kid in tow trying to talk you into taking a pamphlet about our good lord Jesus Christ.
No one likes being preached to or have some righteous prick telling you every life style you choose or have no choice to live, will send you to a make believe place.
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Can't help but think this is mostly a story about pissing off sponsors at it's root.
But I'm a sticks and stones... guy so that carries a bias in my analysis. His words were more ridiculous than harmful I'd have thought.
I wonder what kiwis would think if Beaudy was in Izzys place? I think I'd put his non rugby publicity to one side and focus on his rugby.
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@Siam sponsors pay alot of money to be associated with them, so I guess with that comes certain expectations, of which will include common values, they all like to pretend they are inclusive to all and will not tolerate though who are at odds with these values...right or wrong
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@Siam I'd be interested to know what sort of guy he was in the team environment (Tahs and for Oz). Can't recall him ever being described as a prima donna, but also haven't heard much about him being a leader within the squad.
I can recall Auckland and Blues teams having a the occasional team huddle prayer led by Kevin Mealamu (only one I can recall, quite likely others have too). Can recall the odd comment for how that went/felt for the guys that weren't religious. But from memory it was all good and very much each to their own. I guess that, alongside other devout (legends) like MJ, shows how rugby and religion has overlapped in NZ.
The key difference being how explicit those players were in promoting their beliefs, use of social media, and any associated run in's with the bosses and sponsors. That's the pinch isn't it. Folau feels obliged to keep sending out his (God's) messages - although he hasn't said much about the verse/words he's in personal conflict with (tatts etc).
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@taniwharugby true mate. Once upon a time sponsors were on the leash because the marketing and exposure of their brand made the money they invested prudent. The sponsors played ball to be associated with the game.
Now the game plays ball to be associated with the sponsors.
Who now holds the leash, the primary product or the sponsors?
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@Stargazer said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I heard he turned up to the hearing between RA and Folau only to be told to go away - unsubstantiated rumour.
What would be interesting is if Folau isn't selected and this reduces his remuneration.
It would seem some people need to be told to keep their mouths shut until the process is complete.
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@Paekakboyz said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Siam I'd be interested to know what sort of guy he was in the team environment (Tahs and for Oz). Can't recall him ever being described as a prima donna, but also haven't heard much about him being a leader within the squad.
I can recall Auckland and Blues teams having a the occasional team huddle prayer led by Kevin Mealamu (only one I can recall, quite likely others have too). Can recall the odd comment for how that went/felt for the guys that weren't religious. But from memory it was all good and very much each to their own. I guess that, alongside other devout (legends) like MJ, shows how rugby and religion has overlapped in NZ.
The key difference being how explicit those players were in promoting their beliefs, use of social media, and any associated run in's with the bosses and sponsors. That's the pinch isn't it. Folau feels obliged to keep sending out his (God's) messages - although he hasn't said much about the verse/words he's in personal conflict with (tatts etc).
If that article about Folau baptising people in his backyard is correct (I posted the link earlier in the thread), and he has tried to convert team mates to his (fundamentalist) version of Christianity, that can create tensions in the team environment.
Edited to add this quote from that article:
His increasing fanaticism has been noticed by his teammates, some of whom he’s tried to entice to the flock. It has been noticed by his coaches at all levels.
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@Stargazer that baptism bit is definitely on the 'interesting' side of things isn't it!! I swear that I read he was all anti baptism in an earlier article... something about taking exception to worship practices outside of actual biblical text?
Having someone in your team in your ear about joining his version of team Jaysus would suck imo. Can't be much fun when the Australian team wants to have a beersie or two and enjoy a win... oh wait, drown their sorrows
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Sorry @NTA
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It's one thing if you grow up being indoctrinated into this type of thing, but it's hard to respect anyone who chooses this path as a grown adult. That's not just Folau but also Thorn, SBW or anyone else. It's great if it makes them a better person or less of a prick (clearly not in Folau's case, but how big of an immature man child do you have to be to make this type of conversion? Particularly in this day and age. I'm not saying there aren't positive aspects relating to religion, but if it's a bit disturbing if you require the threat of eternal damnation or ancient scriptures written by charlatans (Mormons among others) to be a good human being.
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@Paekakboyz said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Stargazer that baptism bit is definitely on the 'interesting' side of things isn't it!! I swear that I read he was all anti baptism in an earlier article... something about taking exception to worship practices outside of actual biblical text?
Having someone in your team in your ear about joining his version of team Jaysus would suck imo. Can't be much fun when the Australian team wants to have a beersie or two and enjoy a win... oh wait, drown their sorrows
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Sorry @NTA
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Eat a penis.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
(Mormons among others)
Book of Mormon was awesome BTW. Recommended.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
It's one thing if you grow up being indoctrinated into this type of thing, but it's hard to respect anyone who chooses this path as a grown adult. That's not just Folau but also Thorn, SBW or anyone else. It's great if it makes them a better person or less of a prick (clearly not in Folau's case, but how big of an immature man child do you have to be to make this type of conversion? Particularly in this day and age. I'm not saying there aren't positive aspects relating to religion, but if it's a bit disturbing if you require the threat of eternal damnation or ancient scriptures written by charlatans (Mormons among others) to be a good human being.
I believe he changed over when his dad did. Up to his mid 20's he did what his dad told him to, giving his salary to dad and getting an allowance back.
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From older article:
Folau adds: “I grew up as a Mormon, and my family left that church [in 2011] because different doctrines and beliefs they had weren’t what we believed was right.
“Now we’re part of a small Christian church where I can see the difference; my relationship with God now has gone to another level I didn’t think was possible.
“All of the changes that have happened in my career and my life has been since I left the Mormon faith. That’s nothing on the Mormon faith, but I know God directs myself and my family step by step in our lives, and I can speak on behalf of my parents and younger brothers; they’re in a really good place now.
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Small sample size, but regular church going Christian girls were awesome to date.
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@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Small sample size, but regular church going Christian girls were awesome to date.
It’s like they try to find loopholes to get around the no sex before marriage thing
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Jesus Explains His Plan All Along Was For The Wallabies Not To Make It Out Of Their RWC Group
"I get a lot of prayers," said Mr Christ.
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@taniwharugby said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Wtf is that!
They also stupidly rush into marriage so they can root like rabbits. Not realising the person they married after 3 months of ‘dating’ is a shit root and doesn’t tidy up after themself.
God says no sex before marriage but it’s perfectly fine to marry a stranger just so you can fuck without going to hell.
Yes I’ve had a fair few mates, relatives and ex flat mates that were/are christians -
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@Virgil said in Aussie Rugby in general:
They also stupidly rush into marriage so they can root like rabbits. Not realising the person they married after 3 months of ‘dating’ is a shit root and doesn’t tidy up after themself.
God says no sex before marriage but it’s perfectly fine to marry a stranger just so you can fuck without going to hell.
Yes I’ve had a fair few mates, relatives and ex flat mates that were/are christiansHad a few Mormon guys play rugby at our club - Islanders, pakeha, whatever. They get married at 21, pregnant almost straight away, and somehow breed like crazy bastards.
Generally a happy lot, tho one or two of them are angry rugby players.
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First Robbie Deans, then Mike Cron now Maria...
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@Magpie_in_aus Cron?
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@Magpie_in_aus Daryl Gibson playing a supporting cast role also
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@taniwharugby said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Magpie_in_aus Cron?
Yeah Cron went across the ditch to “help” their scrum issues.
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@taniwharugby I thought Cron had deflected. Must have a made up post by either the beetota advocate or Izzy Folou
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@Mokey said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Virgil Born agains are seriously fucking scary. They definitely don't tend to be the 'love one another' and 'judge not lest ye be judged' types.
Yup exactly, it’s like they are trying to cram as much bible into their lives in as little amount of time as possible. They tend to go way overboard.
Have to wonder how much of an influence his awful wife is too -
@Virgil said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Mokey said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Virgil Born agains are seriously fucking scary. They definitely don't tend to be the 'love one another' and 'judge not lest ye be judged' types.
Yup exactly, it’s like they are trying to cram as much bible into their lives in as little amount of time as possible. They tend to go way overboard.
Have to wonder how much of an influence his awful wife is tooIs his wife awful? I don’t know anything about her.
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@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Virgil said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Mokey said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Virgil Born agains are seriously fucking scary. They definitely don't tend to be the 'love one another' and 'judge not lest ye be judged' types.
Yup exactly, it’s like they are trying to cram as much bible into their lives in as little amount of time as possible. They tend to go way overboard.
Have to wonder how much of an influence his awful wife is tooIs his wife awful? I don’t know anything about her.
I just don’t like her, her eyes are too close together.
She’s allowed to live in oz yet get picked for the ferns and she’s married to a bigoted homophobe.
What’s to like about her... -
@jegga Maria used to be one of my favourite Ferns. She pretty much defines a confidence player. She will take a long distance shot and if it goes in she will start landing them from everywhere. Miss a couple from under the posts and she crumbles.
She always seemed to have time for her supporters and be aware of he sponsor obligations. She was also attractive enough in a pretty sort of way - enough to be a poster girl for NZ Netball at times. When Folau first came out with his mediaeval nonsense last year she publically supported him. At which time I decided she'd been corrupted by an awful Aussie and dismissed her as being an oxygen thief.
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Interesting hearing Raelene Castle stress that the game is inclusive regardless of race, gender, sexuality and religious beliefs.
There's a pretty big asterisk next to the religion part at the moment. Might need to re-think whether they include it in that? The teachings of Christianity haven't exactly been friendly to gays, and Islam in its current for is about 100 times worse.
I've never been that comfortable including religion in there, as they are just ideas that should be challenged, and I would hope freedom of speech laws would cover religious people anyway from a legal perspective.
That said, I am pretty strongly against hate speech laws as well, as they just come down to whether people are offended or not which is entirely subjective and impossible to define in any meaningful way. We should not be restricting speech unless it is directly inciting violence or defaming someone.
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@No-Quarter said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Interesting hearing Raelene Castle stress that the game is inclusive regardless of race, gender, sexuality and religious beliefs.
I would imagine my dreams of playing for the Australian women's rugby team would be discriminated against on the basis of at least two of those (along with talent).
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@Virgil said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Virgil said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Mokey said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Virgil Born agains are seriously fucking scary. They definitely don't tend to be the 'love one another' and 'judge not lest ye be judged' types.
Yup exactly, it’s like they are trying to cram as much bible into their lives in as little amount of time as possible. They tend to go way overboard.
Have to wonder how much of an influence his awful wife is tooIs his wife awful? I don’t know anything about her.
I just don’t like her, her eyes are too close together.
She’s allowed to live in oz yet get picked for the ferns and she’s married to a bigoted homophobe.
What’s to like about her...I wonder how long is attitude to gays would stay the same if she bought home one of the tidier ferns for a ménage a trois?
My guess is about a nanosecond.
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Interesting that this religion and these views have been rightly pummelled and labelled medieval nonsense, yet not a single comment about bigotry or Christianityphobia. Does that only apply to a certain other religion? I hope certain people can see the hypocrisy in all this. Bad ideas, customs and beliefs need to be challenged regardless of their origins.
