Best of RWC
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Why were the French not rated against the Aussies? I looked up their lead up to the 87 cup and they had just won the grand slam. The Aussies were really highly regarded?
I was just a kid, but I recall talk that the NH sides were going to dominate the ABs
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@Duluth said in Best of RWC - Episode 1:
Why were the French not rated against the Aussies? I looked up their lead up to the 87 cup and they had just won the grand slam. The Aussies were really highly regarded?
Aussie had lost 2 of their last 20 odd tests between the 1984 Bledisloe series and the semi-final - both losses were to NZ away and by one point. Aussie were clear tournament favourites.
Aussie had home field advantage and Les Blues served up unconvincing performances against Scotland and Fiji that tournament - so I couldn't see Australia's favouritism waning from the start of the tournament.
Was quite the upset at the time - nearly fell out of my cradle with excitement.
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@Duluth not so much that France weren't rated, more that Aus were expected to be right in the hunt, eepecially after winning on tour in NZ in 86 (and the 84 Grand Slam).
Was definitely a surprise, especially in this part of the world (we had suppressed the memory of Nantes...).
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@Duluth said in Best of RWC - Episode 1:
Why were the French not rated against the Aussies? I looked up their lead up to the 87 cup and they had just won the grand slam. The Aussies were really highly regarded?
I was just a kid, but I recall talk that the NH sides were going to dominate the ABs
IIRC the Cavaliers tour had gutted our team and the baby blacks showed lots of promise but were inexperienced. NH underestimated us, and a bunch of youngsters who ended up being HoFers
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@canefan said in Best of RWC - Episode 1:
IIRC the Cavaliers tour had gutted our team and the baby blacks showed lots of promise but were inexperienced. NH underestimated us, and a bunch of youngsters who ended up being HoFers
Yeah I know how we were coming into the cup
When I looked up the 5N results I was expecting to see Eng or Wales dominating. I remember them bering talked up
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Surprised you didn't include the 1987 1/4 final France v Fiji. That is IMO one of the best games in RWC history, although amazingly only the second best of that tournament .
The final score doesn't do it justice, they were neck and neck for 3/4 of the game, but my memory is of sweeping Fijian moves time and again just floundering on the final pass etc. Plus Koroduadua's giant single Mitt of soap ...
On another day, Fiji could have posted 40 to 50 points.
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@Rapido said in Best of RWC - Episode 1:
Surprised you didn't include the 1987 1/4 final France v Fiji. That is IMO one of the best games in RWC history, although amazingly only the second best of that tournament .
The final score doesn't do it justice, they were neck and neck for 3/4 of the game, but my memory is of sweeping Fijian moves time and again just floundering on the final pass etc. Plus Koroduadua's giant single Mitt of soap ...
On another day, Fiji could have posted 40 to 50 points.
Patience ...
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@Rapido and we may have slightly different perspective on how close the game was in reality.
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Things could have been so different in 1995 if France had upset SA in the QFs
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@booboo I was at the Argentina-Fiji game at Rugby Park with a friend, my first live rugby test. We sat in the old grandstand surrounded by Argentinean supporters. I will definitely watch the full game on youtube, as I don't think I've seen it since 1987.
My other main memory was being an oracle and predicting to my friend that Savai would score from that lineout. As you will know Savai was a Waikato player at that time and a big crowd favourite.
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Australia were definitely favourites in 87. They'd beaten NZ at home and smashed us in the final test.
It was uncertain how NZ would go. Beaten by Aus and then hammered by the Frogs later that year. Farking dominated that cup though. Closest winning margin was 20 points. I was at Ballymore for the semi (Ballymore FFS for a RWC semi). We were squashed in like sardines and it was a sea of black with the odd pin prick of red. Obviously no supporter jerseys so people were wearing anything black or NZ related. Quite a few wearing KZ7 Americas Cup stuff!
Damn that was the stuff of dreams. My dad kept teasing me that the ABs were a good chance to lose to Wales and I was genuinely worried. The 86 Bledisloe losses had traumatized me. But I had no need to worry. What an absolute pounding! It was like they were scoring at will. I was transfixed. And that final pushover try (scored by Mark Brooke-Cowden on as injury reserve) happened right in front of me. And of course Buck knocked that dude's lights out as well.
Magical day for a 7 year old and the result in the final was never in question for me. But those losses in 86 have left a mark and I will always be worried in any game against Aus or the Frogs.
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@Bovidae said in Best of RWC:
@booboo I was at the Argentina-Fiji game at Rugby Park with a friend, my first live rugby test. We sat in the old grandstand surrounded by Argentinean supporters. I will definitely watch the full game on youtube, as I don't think I've seen it since 1987.
My other main memory was being an oracle and predicting to my friend that Savai would score from that lineout. As you will know Savai was a Waikato player at that time and a big crowd favourite.
Thank @Duluth for the videos.
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@canefan said in Best of RWC:
Things could have been so different in 1995 if France had upset SA in the QFs
SF
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@booboo said in Best of RWC:
@canefan said in Best of RWC:
Things could have been so different in 1995 if France had upset SA in the QFs
SF
Either way we would have had a different opposition and the tea urn wouldn't have been spiked
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I can't believe no one has mentioned the might Scots heroic demolition of Ivory Coast from the 1995 WC.
Thanks to the magic of Youtube we can take it all in again. Marvellous.
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@MN5 said in Best of RWC:
I can't believe no one has mentioned the might Scots heroic demolition of Ivory Coast from the 1995 WC.
Thanks to the magic of Youtube we can take it all in again. Marvellous.
Geeze. That's 8 years away from where we're at (1987). At least three episodes away. Once again ... patience ...
And, no, it doesn't make the cut except for a mention of G Hastings's short lived world record.
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@MN5 said in Best of RWC:
I can't believe no one has mentioned the might Scots heroic demolition of Ivory Coast from the 1995 WC.
Thanks to the magic of Youtube we can take it all in again. Marvellous.
I think it's fair to say that rugby in CĂ´te d'Ivoire never recovered.
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Was going to pose a quiz question for you all ... but I'm afraid I can't tell you if you're right or wrong coz google ain't helping me.
Name the AB's bench for the '87 RWC Final.
If you can't name the XV hand in your NZ Passport ... but the bench...?
I'm pretty sure it was a 6 man bench. It was pre-elective subs. Subs had to be for injury only.
Have a couple of ideas (I'm 99% sure who the reserve hooker and reserve prop were).
Let's discuss and see if we can get it right.
Yours please ...
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@booboo Starting with prop and hooker then - was Dalton fit by the final? Think he was back but Fitz started, hence Captain Kirk.
Olo Brown for prop?
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Dalton (I think he was still on the bench, otherwise Abercrombie)
Loe (definitely)
Earl (I think)
Deans
Botica
McCahill
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@Snowy said in Best of RWC:
@booboo Starting with prop and hooker then - was Dalton fit by the final? Think he was back but Fitz started, hence Captain Kirk.
Olo Brown for prop?Dalton definitely
Olo Brown ... no definitely. Pretty sure it was Loe. @Bovidae I reckon is right.
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I am not 100% certain on McCahill but midfield cover would make more sense than including Wright.
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@Bovidae said in Best of RWC:
Dalton (I think he was still on the bench, otherwise Abercrombie)
Loe (definitely)
Earl (I think)
Deans
Botica
McCahillPretty sure you're 100% with Dalton
And with Loe.
Have a suspicion that at least two of the bench didn't play a minute ... including the lock reserve, which rules out Earl. I'm pretty sure it was Albert Anderson.
Also pretty sure you're correct with Deans at half-back reserve.
And Botica. I think.
But can't for the life of me remember if it was McCahill or Brooke-Cowden ...
Google is so shit ...
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@booboo Anderson played against Fiji and Earl against Argentina. Botica and Deans were in the squad but didn't take the field. They would have to be on the bench.
Even Men In Black doesn't list the reserves.
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@booboo Murray Pierce at lock? Kieren Crowley would have been in the squad, as would Terry Wright.
This is hard, getting my years muddled.
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@Snowy Murray Pierce and Gary Whetton were the starting locks.
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@Bovidae said in Best of RWC:
@booboo Anderson played against Fiji and Earl against Argentina. Botica and Deans were in the squad but didn't take the field. They would have to be on the bench.
Even Men In Black doesn't list the reserves.
Ok.
Thought Anderson missed out completely ...
I probably knew this a few years ago ...
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@Higgins said in Best of RWC:
@Snowy Murray Pierce and Gary Whetton were the starting locks.
What he said.
Are you sure you're a NZer @Snowy ?
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I can name the full 1987 squad but struggle with some of the later RWC squads.
Here are the team lists for each AB game:
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1866
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1867
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1868
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1869
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1870
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1871
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Oops , Pierce started didn’t he. So Earl or Anderson.
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@Bovidae said in Best of RWC:
I can name the full 1987 squad but struggle with some of the later RWC squads.
Here are the team lists for each AB game:
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1866
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1867
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1868
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1869
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1870
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=1871Not sure they have the Frogs in order.
Camberabero was 10, Mesnel was 1 I thought , and Lagisquet defintely a winger.
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@booboo Posts crossed with my “oops” in there. Just called and asked to have my passport revoked ( and I was at the match). I wasn’t a reserve though so stop asking hard questions while I’m watching cricket.
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@Snowy said in Best of RWC:
@booboo Posts crossed with my “oops” in there. Just called and asked to have my passport revoked ( and I was at the match). I wasn’t a reserve though so stop asking hard questions while I’m watching cricket.
I shall verse you in your attempt to retain your NewZealandness ...
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@booboo said in Best of RWC:
Not sure they have the Frogs in order.
Camberabero was 10, Mesnel was 1 I thought , and Lagisquet defintely a winger.
The link I gave you is correct. A screen grab from youtube.
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@Bovidae ok. Been wrong before ...
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@Bovidae said in Best of RWC:
Dalton (I think he was still on the bench, otherwise Abercrombie)
Loe (definitely)
Earl (I think)
Deans
Botica
McCahillOne player incorrect
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@booboo Midfield is back to front though. Charvet is 12 and Sella at centre.
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@Duluth Forward or back?
