Best of RWC



  • Part 3 of Booboo's RWC articles

    1991 RWC upsets





  • @booboo said in Best of RWC:

    Enjoy. πŸ™‚

    I'm not sure if 'enjoy' is the right word. There's a lot of of Aussie success in this one



  • @Duluth said in Best of RWC:

    @booboo said in Best of RWC:

    Enjoy. πŸ™‚

    I'm not sure if 'enjoy' is the right word. There's a lot of of Aussie success in this one

    well you are in for a looooong ride then

    (hang in there though, it has a happy ending)



  • @booboo said in Best of RWC:

    @Duluth has loaded Part 4, "Classic Matches" 1991.

    Enjoy. πŸ™‚

    The Gordon Hamilton try in the corner is such a classic moment.

    Glad a part of the world cup history includes a time when a crowd could run onto the field.



  • Depends on what classifies as a classic I suppose.

    But the try-less 9-6 semifinal between England and Scotland was a classic by some criteria:

    • close score
    • importance of the match
    • bitter rivals
    • the very recent history of the 1990 Grand Slam decider at the same venue.
    • groggy (or chokey, depends how charitable you are) Gav Hastings missing a sitter to not send it to extra time.

    Probably just some dire rugby, ruining it a bit .....
    But compared to say 'NZ 49 - Wales 6' semifinal 4 years before, it ranks as a classic ....



  • Here's a little clunky excel graphic I have made of what I consider classics in RWC history.

    I don't include good games between tier 2's with no bearing on progress (e.g Zim v Romania in 1987 etc)

    Factors are:

    • Important games which are close.
    • Good or exciting matches in a semi-important game.
    • Good. close or exciting matches in games which are a big occasions E.g. opening match of pool play in 1991 RWC.
    • A blowout is included only when a team is playing on another level in an important match (both NZ, 1995 semi-final and 2015 quarter-final).

    I've colour coded them:

    • White is non-classic knockout match.
    • darker green for classics
    • lighter green for semi-classics. E.g. fight for 1/4 spot between minor teams. Such as when draw has left a spot open for a non-tier 1 nation to progress - Fiji / Italy / Argentina in 1987, Fiji and Canada in 1991, Samoa and Argentina and Italy in 1995). Or a huge tier 2 upset Tonga v France but after progress was already settled. Or Tier 2 running Tier 1's close before the pool is settled - such as Tonga in 2007.

    (Note: I have decided that from 2003 onwards Argentina are back to Tier 1 (after being Tier 2 from 91 to 99), Italy never Tier 1).

    As you can see the trend is looking really good.

    RWCtrend.PNG



  • @Rapido Can there not be some sort of rating for a team who thoroughly dismantles another team to be a classic of history? The rugby played by the 1987 ABs in the final was sublime and just because it wasn't 6-3 or 8-7 it doesn't mean it wasn't classic. Hell, it was the first final and the ABs put on a masterpiece display!



  • @Nepia said in Best of RWC:

    @Rapido Can there not be some sort of rating for a team who thoroughly dismantles another team to be a classic of history? The rugby played by the 1987 ABs in the final was sublime and just because it wasn't 6-3 or 8-7 it doesn't mean it wasn't classic. Hell, it was the first final and the ABs put on a masterpiece display!

    I had actually put the 1995 semi-final and 2015 quarter-final as classic for those reasons.

    But for 1987 - it just seemed more ruthless rather than spectacular. E.g. the NZ 30 Sco 3 1/4 final was as perfect as it got for rugby at that time. But, Gotta draw the line somewhere .....



  • @Rapido said in Best of RWC:

    @Nepia said in Best of RWC:

    @Rapido Can there not be some sort of rating for a team who thoroughly dismantles another team to be a classic of history? The rugby played by the 1987 ABs in the final was sublime and just because it wasn't 6-3 or 8-7 it doesn't mean it wasn't classic. Hell, it was the first final and the ABs put on a masterpiece display!

    I had actually put the 1995 semi-final and 2015 quarter-final as classic for those reasons.

    But for 1987 - it just seemed more ruthless rather than spectacular. E.g. the NZ 30 Sco 3 1/4 final was as perfect as it got for rugby at that time. But, Gotta draw the line somewhere .....

    Boo!

    All good, it's your table. πŸ˜‰



  • @Nepia said in Best of RWC:

    @Rapido said in Best of RWC:

    @Nepia said in Best of RWC:

    @Rapido Can there not be some sort of rating for a team who thoroughly dismantles another team to be a classic of history? The rugby played by the 1987 ABs in the final was sublime and just because it wasn't 6-3 or 8-7 it doesn't mean it wasn't classic. Hell, it was the first final and the ABs put on a masterpiece display!

    I had actually put the 1995 semi-final and 2015 quarter-final as classic for those reasons.

    But for 1987 - it just seemed more ruthless rather than spectacular. E.g. the NZ 30 Sco 3 1/4 final was as perfect as it got for rugby at that time. But, Gotta draw the line somewhere .....

    Boo!

    All good, it's your table. πŸ˜‰

    France and Scotland were both very good teams in 1987 though, to be fair.

    But, look at the knock out stage the last 2 world cups (by my arbitrary classification), can see how juicy it is now compared to 87 to 95.



  • Ok.

    We've done this before, but as a conceptual mind game type exercise (dunno if that is even a thing) but name the greatest players (from the RWC era) who have NOT won an RWC ...

    Nominate, based on their storied career.

    Discuss.

    Serge Blanco
    Gavin Hastings
    Brian O'Driscoll
    Tana Umaga
    Sergio Parisse
    Neil Jenkins
    Jonah Lomu
    Jeff Wilson
    Christian Cullen

    ...

    ???


  • Banned

    @Rapido said in Best of RWC:

    Note: I have decided that from 2003 onwards Argentina are back to Tier 1 (after being Tier 2 from 91 to 99), Italy never Tier 1).

    I also don't consider Italy to be a Tier 1 Nation

    They're flattered by playing in 6 Nations where they have a small chance of winning games at home vs likes of Scotland France etc as well as the odd win in Scotland

    Team has a decent number of Foreign Mercenaries in their squad

    Though I'd give Italians credit as Bennneton Treviso made big strife last year under Kiwi Coach Kieran Crawley



  • @booboo

    Sella
    Wood



  • @Rapido said in Best of RWC:

    Depends on what classifies as a classic I suppose.

    But the try-less 9-6 semifinal between England and Scotland was a classic by some criteria:

    • close score
    • importance of the match
    • bitter rivals
    • the very recent history of the 1990 Grand Slam decider at the same venue.
    • groggy (or chokey, depends how charitable you are) Gav Hastings missing a sitter to not send it to extra time.

    Probably just some dire rugby, ruining it a bit .....
    But compared to say 'NZ 49 - Wales 6' semifinal 4 years before, it ranks as a classic ....

    Fair call about the 9-6 England-Scotland Semi Final.

    Certainly given the importance and closeness of the game it should be included. I'll have to add it for the next publication in four years.

    Disagree however about removing other games. It's not an either or or game. My series is about what I remember as being special. Happy to talk about other special games and add those that emanate specialiness.



  • @booboo said in Best of RWC:

    Ok.

    We've done this before, but as a conceptual mind game type exercise (dunno if that is even a thing) but name the greatest players (from the RWC era) who have NOT won an RWC ...

    Nominate, based on their storied career.

    Discuss.

    Serge Blanco
    Gavin Hastings
    Brian O'Driscoll
    Tana Umaga
    Sergio Parisse
    Neil Jenkins
    Jonah Lomu
    Jeff Wilson
    Christian Cullen

    ...

    ???

    Just one forward in that mix. So an assumption can be made from your post:

    Backs don’t win world cups, even if they are great...
    Just saying.



  • @booboo Zinny, Fitzy, Merhts, Bunce and Little.... 24 years of ABs futility is a lot of great players



  • @canefan Refer to our 1987 RWC final AB reserves quiz. πŸ™‚



  • I've started watching the Fiji-Argentina game from the 1987 RWC.

    A few observations:
    (1) The kicking is really bad, and that's only after 20 mins. One of Porta's penalty attempts was almost the worst I've seen in any test. The general play kicking is just as poor.
    (2) Watching the front row running to pack down a scrum is a joy to behold. They didn't muck around back then.
    (3) Fleming was a terrible ref.



  • @canefan said in Best of RWC:

    @booboo Zinny, Fitzy, Merhts, Bunce and Little.... 24 years of ABs futility is a lot of great players

    Zinny and Fitzy (hand back your passport!!!) won in 1987.


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