Los Pumas vs Springboks



  • South Africa get handed the curse , no team has ever won this comp and the World Cup in the same year.

    Not that I believe it means anything in reality, but it is interesting how it has worked out so far.





  • @kiwiinmelb said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:

    South Africa get handed the curse , no team has ever won this comp and the World Cup in the same year.

    Not that I believe it means anything in reality, but it is interesting how it has worked out so far.

    I am going with you on this.
    Not that I ever considered us - the Boks - to be any sort of favourites for the RWC anyway, but at least now we have decent albatross to point to: The curse of the Rugby Championship title 🙂

    But what I am pleased about is that the Boks are starting to play better rugby again. It's been a tough bunch of seasons dating back to pretty much 2009.
    Still a bunch of improvements possible though. Hope they keep getting better.
    Saw some promising signs with the de Allende - Am combination which has been missing imo to date.
    I'd also like to see Willie le Roux a bit more involved on attack. He's been a bit quiet.

    Pack looks good. No. 6 (7 for you non-Saffas) still a bit undecided for me. Would be nice to have Kolisi back in the mix.
    I guess the other option is a combination of Francois Louw, PS du Toit and Vermeaulen which isn't too shabby.



  • Funny isn't it - with all the navel gazing that is happening here and around the internet about the All Blacks, the boks aren't shit hot either.

    Our midfield will be seriously average, no matter who we choose - and Steyn is not the answer. Willie le Roux has been poor in both games so far (second play maker mucking up and kicking too much; sounds familiar doesn't it). Faf was also terrible on the weekend. Vermeulen has been quiet and we don't know who our six should be. The line-out is a weakness despite playing four jumpers and our first choice tight head is a pot plant...

    And still we deservedly won the Rugby Championship for the first time in a decade.

    What South Africa does have going at the moment a great tight five. Plus four great replacements to keep the physicality up in the second. We were only in a position to draw the game in Wellington because the Springbok reserve frontrow won us that scrum penalty to set up the final attack.

    The defence is unconventional, but it works for this team. Even in the all black game where New Zealand found space on the outside, we scrambled and worked well to keep them to one try from turnover ball and not a lot else.

    The boks also got lucky - against australia we should have conceded two more tries but for unforced errors and then we benefited from a brainsnap in the form of their yellow card. New Zealand were uncharacteristically untidy in Wellington in the first half. And against Argentina I felt we got the rub of the green (and every other colour) from a characteristically untidy Poite.

    To Billy Webb's point about the loose-trio - though Smith hasn't yet had a massive game with the two shots he has been given I think he offers more than Louw or Coetzee. I would go with Kolisi, Du Toit and Vermeulen, with Smith to do the Savea role off the bench.



  • @SidBarret I mostly agree with this.

    As for loosies, I think the plan is Kolisi, PSDT and Duane with Louw on the bench. That’s why Louw started at 8 against Oz and we finished the Argie game with the big bopper back row of Louw at 8, PSDT and Mostert.

    All of that gives Rassie the option of Louw replacing Kolisi or Vermeulen depending on circumstance.



  • @SidBarret welcome back mate.

    All the teams I have watched SH and NH, they all have issues. Some may seem at this point to have worst issues than others, but whether momentum plays any part in the RWC we really only know once the knock out games start.



  • @Billy-Webb said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:

    Pack looks good.

    First time I read that as "Pact looks good" and thought well you really are favourites then.



  • @SidBarret said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:

    The line-out is a weakness despite playing four jumpers and our first choice tight head is a pot plant...

    Glad you raised this.
    It has started to concern me too. In that last game against Argie, it felt to me like Mbonambi would throw exclusively to Duane at around 4, and then Marx just to Etzebeth at 2.
    So much so that I joked to a friend that these were probably the practice combinations.
    Would definitely be an area the Boks need to work on, because if an armchair "expert" like myself starts picking it up, you can be sure brighter rugby minds in opposing teams have planned to target the Boks here.



  • @Snowy said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:

    @Billy-Webb said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:

    Pack looks good.

    First time I read that as "Pact looks good" and thought well you really are favourites then.

    Hahaha.
    No definite news on Pact yet. Apparently it was last seen playing a round of golf with Aura.
    Last known scores were that they both level par.



  • The Springbok team to play Argentina in Pretoria (in order of name, franchise or club, caps and points) is:

    15 Warrick Gelant (Vodacom Bulls), 6, 5 (1t)

    14 Sbu Nkosi (Cell C Sharks), 7, 25 (5t)

    13 Jesse Kriel (Vodacom Bulls), 43, 60 (12t)

    12 André Esterhuizen (Cell C Sharks), 7, 0

    11 Dillyn Leyds (DHL Western Province), 9 5 (1t)

    10 Elton Jantjies (vice-captain – Emirates Lions), 34, 239 (2t, 47c, 45p)

    9 Cobus Reinach (Northampton, England), 11, 15 (3t)

    8 Marcell Coetzee (Ulster, Northern Ireland) 29, 30 (6t)

    7 Rynhardt Elstadt (Toulouse, France), 1, 0

    6 Siya Kolisi (DHL Western Province), 41, 25 (5t)

    5 Lood de Jager (Vodacom Bulls), 39, 25 (5t)

    4 RG Snyman (Vodacom Bulls), 14, 0

    3 Vincent Koch (Saracens, England), 14, 0

    2 Schalk Brits (captain – Vodacom Bulls), 12, 5 (1t)

    1 Thomas du Toit (Cell C Sharks), 9, 0

    Replacements:

    16 Scarra Ntubeni (DHL Western Province), uncapped

    17 Lizo Gqoboka (Vodacom Bulls), 1, 0

    18 Wilco Louw (DHL Western Province), 12, 0

    19 Marvin Orie (Emirates Lions), 2, 0

    20 Marco van Staden (Vodacom Bulls), 2, 0

    21 Kwagga Smith (Emirates Lions), 3, 0

    22 Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks, England), 23, 15 (3t)

    23 Frans Steyn (Montpellier, France) 59, 132 (10t, 5c, 21p, 3d)



  • So Rassie has gone with a fresh team. Will be interesting to see how well they all gel together.
    I guess this is the last moment to put a hand up for inclusion to Japan.

    Of that lot, I'd say the following probably have a plane ticket:
    Gelandt (15)
    Kriel (13)
    Jantjies (10)
    Kolisi (6)
    de Jager (5)
    Snyman (4)
    de Klerk (22)
    Steyn (23)

    Fringe I would say would be: Kwagga Smith

    The rest have it all to play for.



  • @ACT-Crusader Thanks mate, I never really left, I have just not been lurking about.



  • @Billy-Webb said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:

    So Rassie has gone with a fresh team. Will be interesting to see how well they all gel together.
    I guess this is the last moment to put a hand up for inclusion to Japan.

    Of that lot, I'd say the following probably have a plane ticket:
    Gelandt (15)
    Kriel (13)
    Jantjies (10)
    Kolisi (6)
    de Jager (5)
    Snyman (4)
    de Klerk (22)
    Steyn (23)

    Fringe I would say would be: Kwagga Smith

    The rest have it all to play for.

    I think the squad is pretty much decided on already.

    For me the question is around who the fifth prop will be and whether they will go with 5 loosies and two fullbacks or 6 loosies and only Le Roux (Kolbe and Kriel have both played there enough to get us through the pool games).

    I willing bet the house on final squad being something very close to...

    Le Roux (Gelant)
    Kolbe, Mapimpi, Nkosi
    Am, Kriel, De Allende, Steyn
    Pollard, Jantjies
    De Klerk, Jantjies, Reinach
    Vermeulen, Du Toit, Kolisi, Louw, Smith (Coetzee)
    Etsebeth, Mostert, Snyman, De Jager
    Malherbe, Nyakane,
    Marx, Mbonambi, Brits
    Mtawarira, Kitshoff, Gqoboka



  • @SidBarret

    Pretty much my thinking too.
    Although not sure I agree with Gqoboka. I reckon they will take Koch. Call it a hunch.
    I think Gelandt will make the trip but I would actually prefer we take another loosie or prop.
    As you point out, there is fullback cover with Kolbe and Kriel and Frans Steyn even.

    Only other name missing is Aphiwe Dyantyi. If he is fit in time (and it looks like it is touch-and-go) then he will be included. Possibly at the expense of Cobus Reinach I'd wager. Kolbe did a good enough ambulance job at 9 to warrant taking only two 9's.



  • Re Koch - I would prefer they go with an extra tight-head. 1) Nyakane can cover both sides so going in with 2 and half of each gives us more scope to manage the props' workload and 2) I really don't rate Malherbe and would like to have the option of dropping him from the strongest side.

    But I think they will go with Gqoboka to help with the "numbers". Gqoboka is a great player who is unfortunate to be behind Kitshoff and Beast. It wouldn't be an undeserved selection, but probably not the best thing for the team.

    If Dyanti can prove form and fitness he will probably take Nkosi's spot I think.

    I see England have gone with only two scrumhalves and for a pool game Kolbe is fine as cover, but come the knock out rounds I would be super nervous about a scrummy going down in the week before the game. Also, like the with the props, the reserve scrumhalf with get plenty of minutes in pool rounds, so it would be nice to rotate Jantjes and De Klerk out of the 23.

    You mention bringing in a another loosie, but it is case of who? It seems weird to say this, but where are the big blidside/8s at the moment? Smith, Louw, Kolisi and Coetzee are all primarily opensides. I am a little concerned about the minutes that Vermeulen and Du Toit will have to play. Whiteley is confirm as being out (I think) and the Du Preez brothers seem to be out of the mix. Rassie is having a look at Elstadt, but I just don't see it.



  • What SA have is a game plan they understand and believe in.

    That's not to be sniffed at. I wish we had that.



  • @SidBarret said in Los Pumas vs Springboks:

    Re Koch - I would prefer they go with an extra tight-head. 1) Nyakane can cover both sides so going in with 2 and half of each gives us more scope to manage the props' workload and 2) I really don't rate Malherbe and would like to have the option of dropping him from the strongest side.

    But I think they will go with Gqoboka to help with the "numbers". Gqoboka is a great player who is unfortunate to be behind Kitshoff and Beast. It wouldn't be an undeserved selection, but probably not the best thing for the team.

    If Dyanti can prove form and fitness he will probably take Nkosi's spot I think.

    I see England have gone with only two scrumhalves and for a pool game Kolbe is fine as cover, but come the knock out rounds I would be super nervous about a scrummy going down in the week before the game. Also, like the with the props, the reserve scrumhalf with get plenty of minutes in pool rounds, so it would be nice to rotate Jantjes and De Klerk out of the 23.

    You mention bringing in a another loosie, but it is case of who? It seems weird to say this, but where are the big blidside/8s at the moment? Smith, Louw, Kolisi and Coetzee are all primarily opensides. I am a little concerned about the minutes that Vermeulen and Du Toit will have to play. Whiteley is confirm as being out (I think) and the Du Preez brothers seem to be out of the mix. Rassie is having a look at Elstadt, but I just don't see it.

    While we differ a bit on some calls - I can't fault your logic.
    To add to your thoughts on loosies: Elstadt wouldn't be a good call for me either. And I am not a fan of the du Preez brothers. Even if Whiteley was fit in time - and this seems unlikely - he doesn't easily balance the loose trio although he at least gives the squad a second specialist no. 8. What has happened to our other blindside bruisers?!


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