2019 RWC - Squads



  • @Snowy said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

    @Stargazer said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

    Danny Care just sounds very bitter and jeolous.

    A whiney little bitch half back, and an English one at that. Who would have thought?

    I listened to the podcast this morning and those quotes do sound whiny but he was very at ease with not making the Cup squad. He was using himself as an example of when players born/bred in a country are overlooked by a Jean-y come lately.



  • @Wurzel Fair enough. I don't like the residency rules either but he also wasn't good enough to make the squad. I didn't make the ABs again, more to do with being old and useless at rugby, than residency, but I am disappointed nonetheless.

    Has the 5 year rule been implemented yet? That will make it a bit better I suppose.



  • @Daffy-Jaffy said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

    Here's your ammo for when those northerners want to accost you about NZ poaching from the islands.

    Number of Foreign-born Players per Country -

    19 Samoa
    16 Tonga
    15 USA
    14 Japan, Scotland
    12 Australia
    8 Italy, Wales
    6 England
    5 France
    4 Canada, Fiji, Ireland
    3 New Zealand
    1 Georgia, Russia South Africa
    0 Argentina, Namibia, Uruguay

    The Main Donors -

    48 New Zealand
    18 England
    13 Australia, South Africa
    8 Tonga
    7 Fiji
    6 Ireland

    Extraordinary that Namibia apparently have 0 foreign born players, with their SAF links up to 1990.

    Bothma, who pulled out, was SAF born.

    Frankly, I'd prefer it if Namibia had a few Saffan pros to bolster them a bit.



  • @Rapido Don't some of the Namibian's play in SA?



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  • @Daffy-Jaffy said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

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    Could make the semis with a favourable draw.



  • @Daffy-Jaffy said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

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    Hmmm Fox Sports... Not one Saffer good enough to make your Snubs XV?!

    Reminds a bit of something muttered back in 2003...
    Bok Snubs to win the Snubs RWC then! (or maybe just win the semi)



  • @Billy-Webb Agreed, also there are a few European back rowers I would pick ahead of Samu in my team and locks ahead of Fifita.
    Edit: maybe they see it as a 'who they thought would go but isn't' team rather than a ' best player not going' team as I was first thinking.



  • Rob Evans should be in this team.



  • @cgrant said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

    Rob Evans should be in this team.

    And Rhys Webb



  • Thinking about what Leagues provide professional players to the RWC squads after reading this article ( http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2019/09/11/mlr-representation-at-rwc-2019/ )

    MLR employing 10 Uruguyans (as well as their contributions to the USA and Canadian squads).

    This got me thinking a bit about how Super Rugby no longer employs many cap-tied players from nations other than that of the home union of the franchise.

    By my count Super Rugby is only contributing 10 players to RWC squads outside of (Aus, NZ, Arg, SAF)

    2 to USA (Lamborn from Rebels, and de Haas from Cheetahs)
    1 to Canada (Ardron from Chiefs)
    2 to Tonga (Lousie at Hurricanes, Vunipola at Brumbies)
    4 to Samoa (Laupepe at Hurricanes, Niuia at Highlanders, Alaalatoa at Crusaders, Malolua at Reds)
    1 to Georgia (Bregvadze at Sunwolves)

    Amazingly 0 to Fiji.
    Not so amazingly, but worth noting: 0 to Namibia.

    Remember the good old days of Fa'atau, Vunibaqa, Caucaunibuca, So'oalo, Bari, Lima lighting up Super 12.

    Note: That Twiggy Forrest and his Rapid Rugby is contributing the exact same number (10) of players to T2 nations this RWC as is all of Super Rugby (excluding Sunwolves and Japan).

    Also. Semi-professional or amateur level rugby in NZ, AUS, SAF contributing more (11) players than SR. 4 x Currie Cup players to Namibia, Only 1 NPC player (Kapeli), 4 x various Auckland and Christchurch club players, 2 x Sydney club players.

    Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugby_World_Cup_squads

    (note: this source lists the player's 'highest' current club/franchise level. So some of the Rapid Rugby players, and even some of the SR players to Tonga and Samoa (who are fring SR players), would also have been playing club rugby in Sydney, Brisbane, Auckland etc etc

    Edit: Since writing this post, have discovered the T2blog as referenced below.
    Interesting graph from there, on pro contracts: http://tier2rugby.blogspot.com/2019/09/rwc-squad-facts-figures-trends.html
    alt text



  • Looking at the origin of the RWC coaches:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugby_World_Cup_squads#Overview

    NZ: 7
    Australia: 3
    Wales: 3
    South Africa: 2
    Argentina: 2
    Ireland: 1
    Scotland: 1
    France: 1

    Worth noting that the 3 Welshman are coaching the 3 lowest ranked teams. Rumours that there is a rift with Phil Davies and the Namibia squad according a Tier2 blog I will link later. Renolda Bothma retiring, Davies says dropped, Chysander Botha omitted.

    Squidge rugby's video on Canada was very unflattering of Kingsely Jones.

    If you ever read a T2 froum, you won't see many positive thoughts on Lynn Howells , the Russian coach, who seems to be perceived as on a T2 merry-go-round. prepared to travel, jobs for the IRB boys, jobs filler.



  • Interesting blog on T2 players missing from this RWC:

    http://tier2rugby.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-best-players-from-tier-2-nations.html

    Of those missing for reasons other than form or injury. Villians would appear to be:

    • Worcester Warriors,
    • SH central contracting,
    • lack of interest (E.g. 2 high level Russian players, some of the PI qualified players)
    • other NH clubs not quite as evil as Worcester
    • Phil Davies


  • Also from the Tier2rubgy blogspot.

    Interesting alternative to the foreign-born stats that are going around. Instead a homegrown player anaylysis. (before age 15)

    England come out surprisngly well, only Heinz. No Shields, Hartley or Teo in their RWC squads due to injuries and discipline (Or Hughes, or those random saffa big lump 6s and 8s that have been tried and discarded)

    Homegrown

    Exports

    Source: http://tier2rugby.blogspot.com/2019/09/rwc-squad-facts-figures-trends.html

    NZ graph does reflect that Frizzell has now replaced Jacobson. (Frizzell and Reece are the non-homegrown players in the NZ squad)

    The whole article is very interesting, analysing pathways and other trends, well worth a click on the link above. It would be rude of me to copy all of his great graphs.



  • @Rapido that squashes Walrus' poaching the south Pacific debate then



  • Some of those stats are distorted a little bit around the 'home nations'. You can easily be Scottish or Welsh in upbringing or allegiance yet have been born on the other side of the border. Might have to look at the pathway of all those English Scots



  • @Crucial said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

    Some of those stats are distorted a little bit around the 'home nations'. You can easily be Scottish or Welsh in upbringing or allegiance yet have been born on the other side of the border. Might have to look at the pathway of all those English Scots

    Are you talking about the graphs?

    He isn't using birth, he is using raised from age 15/16.

    I'm not sure how thorough his research can be for some of the more obscure players, but it is 'smart' enough to count Tu'ungafasi, Laulala, Tuilagi, Cokanasinga, North, Moriarty, Carberry etc as homegrown for their national teams - despite being foreign born.

    Edit: He may have used this as a resource, as it shows when those qualifying by residency started - so can work out age at time of qualification.
    http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2019/09/09/foreign-born-raised-players-at-rwc-2019/
    (according to this Frizzell also played youth soccer for Tonga ... who knew .... )



  • @Rapido said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

    @Crucial said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

    Some of those stats are distorted a little bit around the 'home nations'. You can easily be Scottish or Welsh in upbringing or allegiance yet have been born on the other side of the border. Might have to look at the pathway of all those English Scots

    Are you talking about the graphs?

    He isn't using birth, he is using raised to age 15/16.

    I'm not sure how thorough his research can be for some of the more obscure players, but it is 'smart' enough to count Tu'ungafasi, Laulala, Tuilagi, Cokanasinga, North, Moriarty, Carberry etc as homegrown for their national teams - despite being foreign born.

    The Vunipola's would be the interesting ones, born in Oz and NZ, raised in Wales at least until 11 years (in Mako's case), but considered English raised under this thread?



  • @Nepia said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

    @Rapido said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

    @Crucial said in 2019 RWC - Squads:

    Some of those stats are distorted a little bit around the 'home nations'. You can easily be Scottish or Welsh in upbringing or allegiance yet have been born on the other side of the border. Might have to look at the pathway of all those English Scots

    Are you talking about the graphs?

    He isn't using birth, he is using raised to age 15/16.

    I'm not sure how thorough his research can be for some of the more obscure players, but it is 'smart' enough to count Tu'ungafasi, Laulala, Tuilagi, Cokanasinga, North, Moriarty, Carberry etc as homegrown for their national teams - despite being foreign born.

    The Vunipola's would be the interesting ones, born in Oz and NZ, raised in Wales at least until 11 years (in Mako's case), but considered English raised under this thread?

    Yes. every measure has to have a cutoff somewhere.

    Homegrown, as in from 15 onwards. Can expect the migrated-to country has a had a reasonable role in producing the player, and has likely moved at an age earlier than pro contracts or scholarships.



  • @Rapido Oh so I misread it? He’s saying you are homegrown if you arrived at 15 or earlier?


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