Coronavirus - Overall



  • Interesting. HKU are unlikely to be influenced by Beijing - well the scientists anyway. Management may have political pressure.

    My wife spent 15 years working there, interviewing scientists and documenting the research, including virology. They do know their stuff. Some of the world's leading virologists are there. It has been predicted for decades that the next pandemic would come out of Southern China. Population densities, strange menu choices, etc.

    It is no surprise that a Ferner in the field has ended up there.

    So I'm with you @dogmeat . She's telling Porkies (unfortunate turn of phrase - but apt given history), or her research has some serious flaws.



  • We agree the bat wet market thing was an incorrect origin story though yeah?
    Objectively it came froma lab then. ( not suggesting anything nefarious)



  • @Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    We agree the bat wet market thing was an incorrect origin story though yeah?
    Objectively it came froma lab then. ( not suggesting anything nefarious)

    I'm not sure about either of those statements, nor the one below but it does seem to be bats.
    How it got released into general population? Dunno.
    Were they researching it and it got out? Dunno.

    **What is the origin of COVID-19?

    It is believed to have zoonotic origins and has close genetic similarity to bat coronaviruses, suggesting it emerged from a bat-borne virus. There is no evidence yet to link an intermediate animal reservoir, such as a pangolin, to its introduction to humans.

    The virus shows little genetic diversity, indicating that the spillover event introducing SARS-CoV-2 to humans is likely to have occurred in late 2019.**



  • @Snowy with all due respect I'll take my cues from renowned evolutionary biologist Brett Weinstein who notes that no " natural" virus can evolve as quickly as this one and that research centres in Canada and Carolina also produce corona viruses.

    Again not suggesting anything nasty, just that this virus didn't come from simply eating infected bats at one wet market in a country of a billion people.

    I note that you clearly stated that you dunno. All good👍



  • I thought it was the Pangolin that was suspected rather than bats...

    Who knows, seem contradicting reports from reliable sources on both sides aboutbthe origin.



  • @Siam Wasn't suggesting one wet market.

    Was suggesting bats.



  • @Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    renowned evolutionary biologist Brett Weinstein

    He isn't a renowned anything, and he isn't a molecular biologist, virologist, or bioinformatics expert. He teaches at a crappy university and only has two publications to his name. He's never published anything relevant to this field.



  • @Tim fair rebuttal mate, good to know.

    How do you reckon it originated mate?



  • @Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Snowy with all due respect I'll take my cues from renowned evolutionary biologist Brett Weinstein who notes that no " natural" virus can evolve as quickly as this one and that research centres in Canada and Carolina also produce corona viruses.

    With all due respect - it is "Bret" Weinstein and I think that taking cues from many sources gives a better overview, but that is just me.



  • @Siam I dunno. There have been regular warnings about exposure to these viruses from contact with, or consumption of, asian wildlife from serious experts for over 15 years though.



  • @Snowy agree. He disseminates info pretty well though. Sorry for the miss spelling but more sorry for how with all due respect reads, regretted it immediately



  • @Tim said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Siam I dunno. There have been regular warnings about exposure to these viruses from contact with, or consumption of, asian wildlife from serious experts for over 15 years though.

    Yep. Well over. The wife was interviewing HKU scientists in the mid 90's and the warnings were there.



  • and again a subject that everyone wants to learn more about, is totally dominated by character assessments...

    Nearly 12 months into a global civilisation ruining virus and we're no closer to knowing it's true origin with every enquiry overrun by character smears, obfuscation and shooting messengers.

    2020 eh?

    ps, this obsession with the messenger hijacking all conversations, not just here on the fern



  • @Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    Nearly 12 months into a global civilisation ruining virus and we're no closer to knowing it's true origin with every enquiry overrun by character smears, obfuscation and shooting messengers.

    I think that we have a good idea. It was bat. I can't guarantee that but most scientists agree.

    What do you think about swine flu, bird flu, and the original SARS?

    Civet cat for dinner tonight?



  • @Snowy said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    Nearly 12 months into a global civilisation ruining virus and we're no closer to knowing it's true origin with every enquiry overrun by character smears, obfuscation and shooting messengers.

    I think that we have a good idea. It was bat. I can't guarantee that but most scientists agree.

    What do you think about swine flu, bird flu, and the original SARS?

    Civet cat for dinner tonight?

    Wasn't HIV caused by animal crossover as well?

    https://www.theaidsinstitute.org/education/aids-101/where-did-hiv-come-0

    Eating primate meat or exposed to blood infected with primate version of HIV



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Snowy said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    Nearly 12 months into a global civilisation ruining virus and we're no closer to knowing it's true origin with every enquiry overrun by character smears, obfuscation and shooting messengers.

    I think that we have a good idea. It was bat. I can't guarantee that but most scientists agree.

    What do you think about swine flu, bird flu, and the original SARS?

    Civet cat for dinner tonight?

    Wasn't HIV caused by animal crossover as well?

    https://www.theaidsinstitute.org/education/aids-101/where-did-hiv-come-0

    Eating primate meat or exposed to blood infected with primate version of HIV

    As I understand it, yes. @tim is the man to ask.

    What's the solution?
    We stop eating all "game" meats?
    Only have farmed meat, that we know is healthy?
    All become vegans?

    I was suicidal yesterday, but the last option would do it.



  • @canefan Ebola believed to have originated with bush tucker as well. It's a two way exchange too. We have introduced polio into chimp and gorilla populations in West Africa.

    I don't get why the conspiracy theories gain such ground when the obvious answer is well the obvious answer - and backed up with science.

    After I ate asocena in the Philippines I learned you can contract rabies from it



  • @Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    and again a subject that everyone wants to learn more about, is totally dominated by character assessments...

    Nearly 12 months into a global civilisation ruining virus and we're no closer to knowing it's true origin with every enquiry overrun by character smears, obfuscation and shooting messengers.

    2020 eh?

    ps, this obsession with the messenger hijacking all conversations, not just here on the fern

    In an age where every hairy assed idiot with an opinion can reach an audience of millions, it's never been more importat to vet people's qualifications to talk on a subject.

    Crucial to stop the spread of incorrect information, and to stop feeding conspiracy theorists nutjobs.

    We have never had more access to information in history, but you could argue as a population we have never been dumber. A good indicator is thinking that reading websites is "research".



  • @Kirwan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    and again a subject that everyone wants to learn more about, is totally dominated by character assessments...

    Nearly 12 months into a global civilisation ruining virus and we're no closer to knowing it's true origin with every enquiry overrun by character smears, obfuscation and shooting messengers.

    2020 eh?

    ps, this obsession with the messenger hijacking all conversations, not just here on the fern

    In an age where every hairy assed idiot with an opinion can reach an audience of millions, it's never been more importat to vet people's qualifications to talk on a subject.

    Crucial to stop the spread of incorrect information, and to stop feeding conspiracy theorists nutjobs.

    We have never had more access to information in history, but you could argue as a population we have never been dumber. A good indicator is thinking that reading websites is "research".

    Very true
    On the flip side, pointing and shrieking liar, witch or nut job is very effective to scupper an investigation, (nearly all large scale sexual abuse scandals) and the early months of covid from December 2019 are filled with information gaps.

    This line of investigation shouldn't be concluded so quickly on the basis that she's of questionable character. The burden of proof showing that she's wrong can't soley be determined on a character assessment in the first 24 hours.



  • @Siam This isn't the first time that accusation has been made is it? The Wuhan biochemical lab leak story came out very early on and was disproved by lots of different sources? Doesn't mean it isn't true



  • @canefan at the very least hear the lady out.

    It used to be that we'd listen to the evidence first and then decide if they're nutters



  • @Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @canefan at the very least hear the lady out.

    It used to be that we'd listen to the evidence first and then decide if they're nutters

    I said that about Winger once.



  • I thought this was funny

    alt text



  • @Kirwan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    and again a subject that everyone wants to learn more about, is totally dominated by character assessments...

    Nearly 12 months into a global civilisation ruining virus and we're no closer to knowing it's true origin with every enquiry overrun by character smears, obfuscation and shooting messengers.

    2020 eh?

    ps, this obsession with the messenger hijacking all conversations, not just here on the fern

    In an age where every hairy assed idiot with an opinion can reach an audience of millions, it's never been more importat to vet people's qualifications to talk on a subject.

    Crucial to stop the spread of incorrect information, and to stop feeding conspiracy theorists nutjobs.

    We have never had more access to information in history, but you could argue as a population we have never been dumber. A good indicator is thinking that reading websites is "research".

    Thats a big ask of @Crucial mate



  • @voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Kirwan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    and again a subject that everyone wants to learn more about, is totally dominated by character assessments...

    Nearly 12 months into a global civilisation ruining virus and we're no closer to knowing it's true origin with every enquiry overrun by character smears, obfuscation and shooting messengers.

    2020 eh?

    ps, this obsession with the messenger hijacking all conversations, not just here on the fern

    In an age where every hairy assed idiot with an opinion can reach an audience of millions, it's never been more importat to vet people's qualifications to talk on a subject.

    Crucial to stop the spread of incorrect information, and to stop feeding conspiracy theorists nutjobs.

    We have never had more access to information in history, but you could argue as a population we have never been dumber. A good indicator is thinking that reading websites is "research".

    Thats a big ask of @Crucial mate

    I do try. Then I give up because I am lazy.



  • @Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    I thought this was funny

    alt text

    You would.



  • @Crucial said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    I thought this was funny

    alt text

    You would.

    About as funny as drinking a cup of cold vomit.

    The ego involved in thinking people that ignore your internet "research" are sheep is astronomical.



  • @Kirwan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Crucial said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    I thought this was funny

    alt text

    You would.

    About as funny as drinking a cup of cold vomit.

    The ego involved in thinking people that ignore your internet "research" are sheep is astronomical.

    I thought winger was commenting on himself.....



  • @canefan people are being targeted with non-scientific bullshit by Russia to sow discord. So it fits.

    Ironic.





  • Shanghai's new quarantine policy:

    https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202009/11/WS5f5abb29a310f55b25a81d65.html

    Negative test may allow 11 of the 14 days to be done in self isolation at home.



  • @taniwharugby Their death rate/cases is good - their death rate per million popn is the same as ours.

    They have conducted a lot of tests (5x NZ's)so capturing a lot more positives. Thet went really hard, very early with things like temperature testing etc. They also have a culture of mask wearing. Their lockdown was for longer and was more harsh than ours.

    In point of fact their performance would have been even better if Singapore hadn't predictably chosen initially to ignore their guest workers



  • Spain, and excess mortality. 3 periods of excess deaths so far (although 2nd unlikely to have been anything to do with covid). Excess mortality very geographically limited.

    https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-09-17/spains-civil-registries-detect-10-excess-mortality-during-second-coronavirus-wave.html

    With Spain already immersed in a second wave of the coronavirus, the country’s systems for detecting excess mortality rates have already identified a 10% rise in unexpected deaths over two periods: the month of August, and the second week of September.

    In the first two weeks of September, Madrid alone recorded 29% more deaths than the average for the same time period.

    In the MoMo’s latest report, there are three “periods of excess” mortality this year: during the first wave of the coronavirus, which ran from March 10 and May 9, and saw 43,068 more deaths than expected; in August; and last week.

    The latest report from the Mortality Monitoring System, known as MoMo, was published on Wednesday, and shows that between July 27 and August 29 there were 3,466 more deaths in Spain than were expected, and that over the last week – September 8 to 13 – there were an extra 533 compared to the average.

    The MoMo uses information about deaths from all causes supplied by the nearly 4,000 civil registries in Spain that have digitalized systems, covering 93% of the Spanish population from all of the country’s provinces. The reports estimate the expected mortality rates based on models that use historical averages based on deaths over the last 10 years.
    The rate of excess deaths during the first wave was 63% of the average in all of Spain; in August it was 10%; and in September, 9.1%. Over the latter week there was a difference in genders, with 7.6% excess mortality for men, and 12.% for women – the experts consulted for this article have not so far been able to explain this difference.

    The MoMo has not detected excess mortality in the majority of Spain’s 17 regions since the first wave of the epidemic between March and May. This is the case for Asturias, the Canary Islands, Cantabria, Castilla-La Mancha, Catalonia, Galicia, Navarre, the Basque Country and La Rioja. In contrast, excess mortality in the Madrid region between September 1 and 13 came in at 29.3%.



  • This seems promising esp for certain areas. Like a hospital or doctors surgery

    https://nypost.com/2020/09/22/japanese-firm-develops-first-uv-lamp-that-safely-kills-coronavirus/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow

    Japanese company that teamed up with Columbia University has developed a first-of-its-kind ultraviolet lamp that can kill the coronavirus without harming people’s health, according to a report.

    Light equipment maker Ushio’s Care 222 UV lamp is expected to be used to disinfect heavily trafficked spaces where people run the risk of contracting the deadly bug, including buses, trains, elevators and offices, Japan Today reported.

    UV lamps have been widely used for sterilization, notably in the medical and food-processing industries, and JetBlue recently announced plans to use the technology aboard its planes.

    However, conventional UV rays cannot be used when people are present because they cause skin cancer and eye problems.

    But Ushio’s new UV lamp emits rays with a wavelength of 222 nanometers, as opposed to the conventional 254-nanometer wavelength, making them deadly to germs but harmless to humans, the news outlet reported.



  • @Winger I read that it will be good at killing the virus on hard surfaces (which accounts for about 5%) of infections but sadly has no chance of killing it when its an aerosol i.e. being breathed, sneezed or coughed out before it is inhaled into another persons lungs.



  • @dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Winger I read that it will be good at killing the virus on hard surfaces (which accounts for about 5%) of infections but sadly has no chance of killing it when its an aerosol i.e. being breathed, sneezed or coughed out before it is inhaled into another persons lungs.

    But perhaps it could be injected into the body somehow? Or maybe shined on people. I know you're looking into that right?



  • @dogmeat sooo.. 5% of the time it works all the time?



  • @Bones said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @dogmeat sooo.. 5% of the time it works all the time?

    Reminds me of

    alt text





  • @Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    This seems promising esp for certain areas. Like a hospital or doctors surgery

    https://nypost.com/2020/09/22/japanese-firm-develops-first-uv-lamp-that-safely-kills-coronavirus/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow

    Japanese company that teamed up with Columbia University has developed a first-of-its-kind ultraviolet lamp that can kill the coronavirus without harming people’s health, according to a report.

    Light equipment maker Ushio’s Care 222 UV lamp is expected to be used to disinfect heavily trafficked spaces where people run the risk of contracting the deadly bug, including buses, trains, elevators and offices, Japan Today reported.

    UV lamps have been widely used for sterilization, notably in the medical and food-processing industries, and JetBlue recently announced plans to use the technology aboard its planes.

    However, conventional UV rays cannot be used when people are present because they cause skin cancer and eye problems.

    But Ushio’s new UV lamp emits rays with a wavelength of 222 nanometers, as opposed to the conventional 254-nanometer wavelength, making them deadly to germs but harmless to humans, the news outlet reported.

    Gamechanger


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