RWC 2023 draw
-
@mariner4life said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@booboo said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@Duluth said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@Kirwan said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
It'll be for logistics right? So teams can plan ahead.
Tour operators, fans...
I can understand why they don't want it done 12months before. Surely two years would be enough?
Two years is barely enough, but workable.
what do you mean by that?
Well, my opinion.
Althiugh a lot can happen to form I two years, but it's kind of close enough that it's reflective of form reasonably close to the event, and independent of the last one.
... work calls ... might try and explain better later
-
@booboo said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@rotated said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
The FIFA World Cup with the exception of the host nation is an entirely random draw though so the logistics are a bit more straight forward.
To have a financially successful RWC the draw has be to be done carefully to ensure the marquee match ups maximize attendance etc.
Why three years is needed and not two is a mystery. Six months would seem unworkable though.
Is it? Didn't use to be.
Random in the sense of venue allocation. A1 vs A3 @ Venue ABC on July 1 is set out before the draw is made. The tournament is seeded, although there is some vagueries beyond the Top 7 seeds as certain confederations can only have a maximum of two teams per pool etc.
The RWC is done in reverse where the pools are drawn first (with repechage and qualifiers still undecided) and then the schedule and venues are chosen to suit the draw, maximize attendance, TV timezones etc.
-
@booboo said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@Duluth said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@Kirwan said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
It'll be for logistics right? So teams can plan ahead.
Tour operators, fans...
I can understand why they don't want it done 12months before. Surely two years would be enough?
Two years is barely enough, but workable.
If a union can't determine training grounds and a hotel with two years notice, they shouldn't be turning up.
-
Qualification process set for Rugby World Cup 2023
.
With 12 teams having secured their place at France 2023 courtesy of finishing in the top three of their respective pools at RWC 2019, the remaining eight places will be determined by a process of regional and cross-regional qualifiers. The process will conclude with a four-team round-robin Final Qualification Tournament in November 2022 to determine the final qualifier.
The dates for events in 2021 will be announced in due course and will be subject to an anticipated easing of the COVID-19 situation.
.
The Americas will deliver two direct places, while Oceania will deliver a direct qualifier with a further direct place available following a play-off with Asia. The Rugby Europe Championship (two direct places), Rugby Africa Cup (one direct place) and Final Qualification Tournament (one direct place) will provide the other qualifiers. Further details are provided below.
-> RWC 2023 qualification principles
- Americas: the Americas will qualify two teams by September 2022. The third best team in the region will enter the Final Qualification Tournament – Americas 1 and Americas 2
- Europe: the existing Rugby Europe Championship will have two qualifying places, with the two best teams in March 2022 qualifying directly and the third placed entering the Final Qualification Tournament – Europe 1 and Europe 2
- Africa: the Rugby Africa Cup 2022 winner will qualify directly and the runner-up team will go to Final Qualification – Africa 1
- Oceania: a home and away play-off between Tonga and Samoa in 2021 will determine the direct qualifier for the Oceania region. – Oceania 1
The loser will then play the Oceania Rugby Cup 2021 winner in the highest ranked team’s country with the eventual winner contesting Asia / Pacific (see below) as Oceania 2 - Asia / Pacific: the winner of the Asian Rugby Men’s Championship 2021 will play Oceania 2 home and away. The winner on aggregate will determine the qualifier and the loser will go to Final Qualification – Asia / Pacific 1
- Final Qualification Tournament: the tournament in November 2022 will feature four teams playing in a round-robin format with the winner qualifying for RWC 2023 – Final Qualification winner
Teams already qualified: South Africa, England, New Zealand, Wales, Japan, France (host), Australia, Ireland, Scotland, Italy, Argentina, Fiji
.
Final details of the regional competition formats and dates will be announced in due course
-
I get why the RWC draw needs to be relatively contrived, but so far out is silly. This should be something that happens around halfway through a RWC cycle.
If it wasn't somewhat contrived we'd all be complaining about a lack of marquee pool games, and big games at small venues. When a tournament has dominant sides mixed with minnows and is often played in nations or regions where its a minority sport, contrivances and concessions have to be made in order to create the best spectacle, and yes, the most money.
-
-
@shark said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
I get why the RWC draw needs to be relatively contrived, but so far out is silly. This should be something that happens around halfway through a RWC cycle.
If it wasn't somewhat contrived we'd all be complaining about a lack of marquee pool games, and big games at small venues. When a tournament has dominant sides mixed with minnows and is often played in nations or regions where its a minority sport, contrivances and concessions have to be made in order to create the best spectacle, and yes, the most money.
I'm the complete opposite of this. I think the draw should be done late, and nearly every team should have to qualify. What better way to get T1 nations playing against and at T2 and T3 opposition.
-
@mariner4life said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@shark said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
I get why the RWC draw needs to be relatively contrived, but so far out is silly. This should be something that happens around halfway through a RWC cycle.
If it wasn't somewhat contrived we'd all be complaining about a lack of marquee pool games, and big games at small venues. When a tournament has dominant sides mixed with minnows and is often played in nations or regions where its a minority sport, contrivances and concessions have to be made in order to create the best spectacle, and yes, the most money.
I'm the complete opposite of this. I think the draw should be done late, and nearly every team should have to qualify. What better way to get T1 nations playing against and at T2 and T3 opposition.
This only increases the potential to have lop-sided pools and T1 nations playing at small grounds, surely.
-
@shark said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@mariner4life said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@shark said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
I get why the RWC draw needs to be relatively contrived, but so far out is silly. This should be something that happens around halfway through a RWC cycle.
If it wasn't somewhat contrived we'd all be complaining about a lack of marquee pool games, and big games at small venues. When a tournament has dominant sides mixed with minnows and is often played in nations or regions where its a minority sport, contrivances and concessions have to be made in order to create the best spectacle, and yes, the most money.
I'm the complete opposite of this. I think the draw should be done late, and nearly every team should have to qualify. What better way to get T1 nations playing against and at T2 and T3 opposition.
This only increases the potential to have lop-sided pools and T1 nations playing at small grounds, surely.
If you can't get out of your pool, you didn't deserve to be in the finals.
-
@shark said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@mariner4life said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
@shark said in RWC 2023 draw, this November!:
I get why the RWC draw needs to be relatively contrived, but so far out is silly. This should be something that happens around halfway through a RWC cycle.
If it wasn't somewhat contrived we'd all be complaining about a lack of marquee pool games, and big games at small venues. When a tournament has dominant sides mixed with minnows and is often played in nations or regions where its a minority sport, contrivances and concessions have to be made in order to create the best spectacle, and yes, the most money.
I'm the complete opposite of this. I think the draw should be done late, and nearly every team should have to qualify. What better way to get T1 nations playing against and at T2 and T3 opposition.
This only increases the potential to have lop-sided pools and T1 nations playing at small grounds, surely.
good! the best world cup pool ever was when Aus, England, Wales and Fiji were all in the same pool. That was awesome.
-
Draw in a couple of weeks time.
The teams in each band will be randomly drawn to determine the pools they go into, the first drawn being placed in Pool A, the second in Pool B, the third in Pool C and the fourth in Pool D. The first band to be drawn will be five, with the top four seeds the last to be drawn.
https://www.world.rugby/news/605866/all-eyes-turn-to-paris-ahead-of-rugby-world-cup-2023-draw
-
Looks lopsided to me with France in second tier and Wales in top one. Within 12 months France may be world number 1. Wales third tier currently.
-
@ARHS said in RWC 2023 draw:
Looks lopsided to me with France in second tier and Wales in top one. Within 12 months France may be world number 1. Wales third tier currently.
Yeah, and why these idiots shouldn't be doing it three years out.
A lot changes in a year, let alone three. Just a change of coach can drop you down the rankings in a hurry. -
It highlights that too much weighting goes on RWC placings, when using the rankings to determine bands 3 years out from the next RWC.
-
Increased rest days confirmed for Rugby World Cup 2023
Rugby World Cup 2023 in France will feature increased rest periods for all teams after the Rugby World Cup Board, the World Rugby Executive Committee, the France 2023 organising committee and International Rugby Players agreed a ground-breaking package of player welfare principles that will underpin a greatly enhanced match schedule when it is announced on Friday 26 February.
With the ambition of making the schedule the best it can be for players, fans, host cities and the host nation, the Rugby World Cup Board and World Rugby Executive Committee have approved a set of key principles for the 10th men’s Rugby World Cup after a thorough review of Rugby World Cup 2019 that delivered best-ever player welfare and competitiveness outcomes in the modern era, including:
- All teams will have a minimum of five rest days for all matches, optimising recovery and preparation for the tournament
- The pool phase will be extended by a week to accommodate the additional rest day requirement and will now kick off on 8 September and conclude with the final on 28 October
- Permitted squad sizes will be increased by two from 31 to 33 players, aiding squad management
- Overall travel volume and time will be minimised for teams in tournament
- World Rugby is committed to comprehensive level of player welfare and medical standards, focusing on overall player load reduction
For the first time in modern Rugby World Cup history, no team will have a rest period of less than five days, optimising recovery and preparation, while World Rugby also aims to deliver the most balanced schedule to date in terms of overall rest periods, particularly for emerging nations. The full match schedule will be announced at the end of the month.
The international federation will also continue to consult with the global players’ body and national unions to ensure optimal training load guidance is followed as part of the tournament’s comprehensive player welfare standards programme.
As an added benefit the schedule will provide a boost to the host nation, through an additional week of rugby fan attendance. This will drive increased tourism, hospitality spending and an overall economic stimulus, while social engagement and legacy programmes will also benefit.
-
That is a punishingly long pool stage. From a economic perspective at what point is it better to have 8 pools of 4 with a round of 16 over in one less week?
-
@rotated meh, it's the world cup, only happens occasionally so no worries if it's a bit longer.
-
The squad size has a big effect on personnel planning. Those third halfback/ hooker decisions or 6/locks or back three....
-
Looking at Band Four there are spots for Oceania 1 and Asia Pacific 1. Where do Tonga and Samoa sit in these classifications (argument could be made they fit into both) as it would be a shame to lose one or both of them from RWC? Looks like one of them will have to come through the Band 5 Final Qualifier Winner and to me that is too much a risk to take given both are pretty decent at rugby all things considered. To have either missing out to the likes of Cyprus, Germany, Portugal, Uruguay or Korea, for example, would be a great shame.
-
@higgins There's a Wikipedia for the 2023 RWC qualifying process.
Oceania Rugby was granted one direct qualification berth, and will be awarded to the winner on aggregate of a Samoa–Tonga home and away play-off (Oceania 1). The loser will play the winner of the 2021 Oceania Rugby Cup to advance as Oceania 2 to a cross-regional play-off against Asia 1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Rugby_World_Cup_qualifying
It's also worth noting Samoa had to go through qualifying to make the 2019 RWC - they beat Germany 66-15 and 42-28 across two games. If you can't beat the likes of Korea and Germany you don't deserve to make the RWC.
-
@kiwimurph said in RWC 2023 draw:
@higgins There's a Wikipedia for the 2023 RWC qualifying process.
Oceania Rugby was granted one direct qualification berth, and will be awarded to the winner on aggregate of a Samoa–Tonga home and away play-off (Oceania 1). The loser will play the winner of the 2021 Oceania Rugby Cup to advance as Oceania 2 to a cross-regional play-off against Asia 1.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Rugby_World_Cup_qualifying
It's also worth noting Samoa had to go through qualifying to make the 2019 RWC - they beat Germany 66-15 and 42-28 across two games. If you can't beat the likes of Korea and Germany you don't deserve to make the RWC.
Samoa came last in Oceania.
Played inter-continental Qualifier v Germany.
Even if they had lost that qualifier they would have gone into the 4 team repechage tournament (Germany, Kenya, Hong Kong and Canada).Basically plenty of avenues until they had any jeopardy.
-
So only difference is this time Oceania 2 (worst of the PI Big 3) will play Asia in an inter-continental qualifier instead of Europe.
So Hong Kong instead of Germany, based on 2019.
Hong Kong have just cancelled their professionals 15s high performance, due to covid.
Another disappointingly dull and safe qualification process for Oceania, IMO. They need some risk.
-
@rapido said in RWC 2023 draw:
So only difference is this time Oceania 2 (worst of the PI Big 3) will play Asia in an inter-continental qualifier instead of Europe.
So Hong Kong instead of Germany, based on 2019.
Hong Kong have just cancelled their professionals 15s high performance, due to covid.
Another disappointingly dull and safe qualification process for Oceania, IMO. They need some risk.
Let's not put the cart before the horse - they need to beat Papua New Guinea first.
-
@kruse said in RWC 2023 draw:
@rapido said in RWC 2023 draw:
So only difference is this time Oceania 2 (worst of the PI Big 3) will play Asia in an inter-continental qualifier instead of Europe.
So Hong Kong instead of Germany, based on 2019.
Hong Kong have just cancelled their professionals 15s high performance, due to covid.
Another disappointingly dull and safe qualification process for Oceania, IMO. They need some risk.
Let's not put the cart before the horse - they need to beat Papua New Guinea first.
Do they? They probably don't.
They didn't need to beat Cook Islands (or PNG) last time. PI Big 3 totally totally ringfenced from the other Oceania qualifiers. Cook Islands won Oceania then lost to Hong Kong. for chance at the repechage tournament. The worst a PI Big 3 can do is get knocked out during repechage.Assume still the same, haven't checked.
-
I'm wrong.
For 2023.
Oceania:
a home and away play-off between Tonga and Samoa in 2021 will determine the direct qualifier for the Oceania region. – Oceania 1The loser will then play the Oceania Rugby Cup 2021 winner in the highest ranked team’s country with the eventual winner contesting Asia / Pacific (see below) as Oceania 2
-
Yeah - for those who require over-sized pictures and bright colours...
("visual learners" I believe is the polite term, "dunces" the correct one):
https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2023/qualifiers -
That opening match, not predictable at all ...Media release: All Blacks to play France in RWC 2023 opening match
-
World Rugby media release: https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2023/news/619814/hosts-france-to-face-new-zealand-in-blockbuster-rwc-2023-opening-match
Full match schedule: https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2023/matches
-
@stargazer said in RWC 2023 draw:
Media release: All Blacks to play France in RWC 2023 opening match
I'm kind of surprised they didn't choose Italy to get a bit of a contest but likely win.
High Reward / Low Risk move if they beat NZ first up it could really take public interest in the tournament to another level like SA beating Aus first up in 1995.
-
How is it possible Italy is in the same pool as ABs again?
-
@dmx said in RWC 2023 draw:
How is it possible Italy is in the same pool as ABs again?
Just like Wales Fiji and Australia in the same pool. I think Wales and Fiji have some sort of RWC pool love affair.
-
No AB game in Marseille this time.
-
Exciting first up game then the ABs have weeks of boredom to follow, not great prep for the knock outs. 16 team world cup, thanks.
At least with a squad size of 33 they can do proper internal matches
-
It's all a bit repetitive isn't it?
