Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..



  • @jegga said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    The shit that annoys my is when vegos and vegans attribute their feeling healthier to removing animal products from their diet when in fact they have really only started eating well when they took this up. Of course you are going to notice a difference going from cheap and nasty food to a diet of fresh vegetables!

    The guy that debunked game changers bought this up , the American diet is awful . Shitty food is cheap and the studies about people switching from the usual food to plant based get an understable bounce in their health because the food they eat is so shit .

    Tim Dillon did a good bit recently where he went through the Denny's breakfast menu and everything had between 1000 and 1800 kcal.



  • @Tim Great read, thanks bud.



  • @antipodean said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I miss living in Brisbane. I didn't buy meat for a decade.

    Context: Wasn't vegan, just took the esky to the farm and raided one of the meat freezers.

    TBF, that context doesn't add much context. 🙂

    @mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @Crucial all about what you choose, less processed crap, going for the better quality stuff as opposed to the average stuff you get at supermarkets, plus all the processed crap they sell.

    I was astounded at the poor quality of the meat available in NZ supermarkets last time I was back. It just looked shit. Especially the chicken. I would go to the butcher as well.

    I don't want to be contrarian but I always look forward to the red meat when I'm back in NZ. I find a lot (but not all) of the stuff in Sydney to be pretty bland tastewise even at the nicer restaurants (outside of stuff like prawns and pork belly in chinatown etc).

    I always make sure I go out for steak back home, get some decent lamb dishes etc, but in fairness I'm usually eating out or going to my old local butchers back in Hawkes Bay.

    I also don't really notice the price when back in NZ as I'm on holiday mode which probably influences my thinking.



  • @Nepia that's that tender but tasteless grain fed aussie beef vs kiwi grassfed stuff



  • @canefan said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @Nepia that's that tender but tasteless grain fed aussie beef vs kiwi grassfed stuff

    I've heard the claim over here that Aussie beef is actually grass fed, I've always been too lazy to look it up though.



  • @Nepia said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @canefan said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @Nepia that's that tender but tasteless grain fed aussie beef vs kiwi grassfed stuff

    I've heard the claim over here that Aussie beef is actually grass fed, I've always been too lazy to look it up though.

    Mostly grain-fed toward the end of their lives after being raised on pasture. This is basically to finish them off at the right time to keep a constant supply going rather than rely on seasonal growth.

    The good 'pasture' stuff is often from the Cooper Creek drainage basin (SW QLD) after the rains have been as the spinifex grass pops up and goes to seed quickly providing really rich oils and the cattle put on crazy size.



  • @Nepia A lot of their export beef is finished on grain. I have been told that there is more of a reliance on hay rather than grass in the paddock by an NZ farmer, but I have no idea of the veracity of that claim.

    The Australian Beef Compendium might be a good place to start your investigation:

    https://ameliahanslow.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/beef-compendium-all-lorez.pdf

    While cattle are designed to eat grass - a good system, turning that which humans can’t eat into food – circumstances can sometimes dictate that a farmer chooses to either finish cattle on a feedlot – usually for a minimum of 100 days before processing, supplement pasture with feed bins in the paddock – or assign them to a feedlot for their lifetime.

    Cattle fed according the last of these regimes are known as grainfed. Other additions of grain – either as supplements for 100 days or via feed bins in the paddock – are known as grain-assisted.



  • @mariner4life said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @Crucial check out Felicity Kendall here

    I'll take that as a compliment. She had a nice bum.



  • @Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @Nepia said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @canefan said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @Nepia that's that tender but tasteless grain fed aussie beef vs kiwi grassfed stuff

    I've heard the claim over here that Aussie beef is actually grass fed, I've always been too lazy to look it up though.

    Mostly grain-fed toward the end of their lives after being raised on pasture. This is basically to finish them off at the right time to keep a constant supply going rather than rely on seasonal growth.

    The good 'pasture' stuff is often from the Cooper Creek drainage basin (SW QLD) after the rains have been as the spinifex grass pops up and goes to seed quickly providing really rich oils and the cattle put on crazy size.

    In terms of fat content and slow BBQ, US pitmasters love grain fed beef because the marbling scores are higher. There are premium providers in NZ who are finishing their animals off with grain before slaughter, like Wakanui and Ocean



  • @canefan I personally find grain fed or finished steak rather bland. There are high-end NZ exporters doing all grain fed Wagyu/Angus cross beef. Grass fed flavour with Grain fed marbling levels. I'll have to try it soon.

    Firstlight Beef is one of them:

    https://www.firstlight.farm/



  • I love how this thread on vegetarianism has moved quite quickly on to where and how to get good meat.



  • @Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I love how this thread on vegetarianism has moved quite quickly on to where and how to get good meat.

    eh, it's all good. Partial vegeterianism --> eat good meat.



  • @Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I love how this thread on vegetarianism has moved quite quickly on to where and how to get good meat.

    For the second time this thread ....

    Perfectly in line with expectations.



  • Surely that's only 2 degrees of separation to get to meat, all been covered off too.

    Veganism- vegetarian - omnivore- carnivore



  • @MajorRage I submit another piece of evidence against going Vegan





  • But how has this not already been posted?



  • @Bones This is not a thread for scum?



  • @Tim said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @Bones This is not a thread for scum?

    Geezuz. Ok then.



  • There's more chance of me supporting the Wallabies than of me ever going Vegan.

    Each to their own and mine is cow's milk and meat.



  • I've been vegetarian since I was 14, mostly because I don't like meat. Seems pretty clear that enforced vegetarianism isn't required because there is some land that is no use for crops, but is fine for grass and sheep e.g. hills. At the same time, it's also clear that there is land that would be better for crops than animals, and that by and large more veges and less meat would be better than the status quo. Whether that is best met by everyone eating less meat, or more people becoming vegetarian and reducing total societal meat intake that way, is hard to say, although the latter is probably easier to sell because it's voluntary.

    Not a big fan of fake meat generally (I prefer just using cheese or eggs), but my wife sometimes uses it so she can make a vegetarian version of a meat-based meal e.g. lasagna. I find it pretty meh since it has been 25 years since I dropped meat from my diet, but it serves its purpose. At some point, it will be significantly cheaper than meat, and meat will very quickly stop being produced in current quantities. That's probably 5-10 years away, but it's coming.



  • @Godder said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I've been vegetarian since I was 14, mostly because I don't like meat. Seems pretty clear that enforced vegetarianism isn't required because there is some land that is no use for crops, but is fine for grass and sheep e.g. hills. At the same time, it's also clear that there is land that would be better for crops than animals, and that by and large more veges and less meat would be better than the status quo. Whether that is best met by everyone eating less meat, or more people becoming vegetarian and reducing total societal meat intake that way, is hard to say, although the latter is probably easier to sell because it's voluntary.

    Not a big fan of fake meat generally (I prefer just using cheese or eggs), but my wife sometimes uses it so she can make a vegetarian version of a meat-based meal e.g. lasagna. I find it pretty meh since it has been 25 years since I dropped meat from my diet, but it serves its purpose. At some point, it will be significantly cheaper than meat, and meat will very quickly stop being produced in current quantities. That's probably 5-10 years away, but it's coming.

    That leaves us with a lot of cows and sheep to get rid of.



  • @Godder said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    but my wife sometimes uses it so she can make a vegetarian version of a meat-based meal e.g. lasagna.

    Why would you do that when you can make awesome vegetarian lasagnas with kumara, spinach, pumpkin etc?



  • @Nepia said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @Godder said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    but my wife sometimes uses it so she can make a vegetarian version of a meat-based meal e.g. lasagna.

    Why would you do that when you can make awesome vegetarian lasagnas with kumara, spinach, pumpkin etc?

    My wife still likes meat, so that's her compromise. I'm too busy being thankful that I don't have to cook to complain about it.



  • @Catogrande said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @Godder said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I've been vegetarian since I was 14, mostly because I don't like meat. Seems pretty clear that enforced vegetarianism isn't required because there is some land that is no use for crops, but is fine for grass and sheep e.g. hills. At the same time, it's also clear that there is land that would be better for crops than animals, and that by and large more veges and less meat would be better than the status quo. Whether that is best met by everyone eating less meat, or more people becoming vegetarian and reducing total societal meat intake that way, is hard to say, although the latter is probably easier to sell because it's voluntary.

    Not a big fan of fake meat generally (I prefer just using cheese or eggs), but my wife sometimes uses it so she can make a vegetarian version of a meat-based meal e.g. lasagna. I find it pretty meh since it has been 25 years since I dropped meat from my diet, but it serves its purpose. At some point, it will be significantly cheaper than meat, and meat will very quickly stop being produced in current quantities. That's probably 5-10 years away, but it's coming.

    That leaves us with a lot of cows and sheep to get rid of.

    Gourmets and exports for the "export-quality" stuff, petfood for the rest. The early hit to the market will probably be the cheapest stuff as being awful anyway e.g chicken nuggets, cheap mince and sausages.





  • @Godder that was a long article that I must confess I didn't finish.

    But doesn't it simply boil down to this? Nobody hates a vegan who doesn't try try to espouse his lifestyle onto anyone else.

    Keep your shit to yourself, and we can all get along.

    Isn't it that simple?



  • @voodoo ideally it would be, but some people can't handle nonconformity and get angry at it for no obvious reason. As a young vegetarian (I was 14 when I switched), I was never militant about it or even interested in suggesting others try it, but was surprised at the amount of hostility toward the mention of the word. It seems that vegan has replaced vegetarian in that respect, but the hostility toward it is no more justified in most instances than it was 25 years ago.

    That's really the point of the article - proselytising veganism is rare as a percentage of vegans, but vegans are despised anyway, even though most don't try to push it on anyone.



  • My missus of 9 years has been a non-meat eater since she was 13.

    Was vegan for about 10 years.

    Then back to veg and now Pescatarian.

    I do the majority of the cooking for both of us.

    Breakfast is porridge then toast with jam, peanut butter, avocado or eggs.

    She's out at work so I can eat what the fuck I like at lunch. Invariably it's a cycle of veggie, pescie, meat, and 'junk' - sausage rolls, pies, chicken kiev.

    Dinner is 50/50 veggie / pescie.

    My go to when I go out is pork. Belly and crackling preferably.

    If I was single it wouldn't be much different.

    There is no scientific evidence that a purely plant based diet is better for you.

    It's a volume and quality issue. Always has been, always will be.

    Been to PhD level in Human Nutrition, so not the ramblings of a drunk denyer (sp) - the other spelling looked like the quality of women's tights.

    Even though I'm typing this on my second bottle of red.



  • @Godder hmm. I'm hardly an expert, but I'd say the rare times I've seen any heated conflict between vegans and non-vegans have been at the scene of some sort of protest. I honestly don't think "non-vegans" would care if vegans went quietly about their business.

    Maybe I have it wrong.

    Personally I'm close to vege these days, not by any moral choice, more by lack of quality options and the gradual change in taste that ensued.

    Maybe I'll be leading the march one day!



  • I think hate levelled at vegans is hugely exaggerated, unless you are talking about those militantly trying to stop the rest of us from enjoying our meat



  • @canefan said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I think hate levelled at vegans is hugely exaggerated, unless you are talking about those militantly trying to stop the rest of us from enjoying our meat

    There's a group of foodies which are like born again Christians.

    They're passionate. Mean well.

    But you wouldn't want to spend the night with them.



  • @Catogrande said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    In this regime you do not eat meat unless it is going to waste.

    That's me. No dead animal I eat is wasted.

    Forty years ago I started working for one of London's top family butchers. The guy was massively ahead of his time in terms of quality, cuts and what he did with meat. Ended up running his catering operation and learned that money spent on quality produce is never wasted.

    Ms DM laughs at me for popping in to butchers shops when we are on holiday just for a look see.

    I'm the anti-Christ of veganism. I can't abide fruit (no sweet tooth) and while I like vegetables I don't eat enough of them. I'm too time poor. The plan for retirement though includes lots of baking, preserving, fermenting and charcuterie.



  • @dogmeat said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    charcuterie

    had to google that!



  • The latest rifle caliber to gain popularity is the 6.5 creedmore , aka the 6.5 vegan . Why ? How do you know someone is using it? Don’t worry they’ll tell you.



  • @canefan said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I think hate levelled at vegans is hugely exaggerated, unless you are talking about those militantly trying to stop the rest of us from enjoying our meat

    I agree. It seems most of us on here know vegans or vegetarians and have no issue with them. It's the militant vegans that people hate. Just like the radical lefties, the right wing nutjobs, the born again Christians etc etc. Anyone that gets in other people's faces and preaches how to live their lives, while arrogantly assuming they know everything and that they are the most morally virtuous person to ever grace the earth, is going to get a fair amount of criticism and mocking directed their way.

    If vegans are worried about people hating them they should direct their ire at the militant branch of veganism that causes this resentment.



  • @No-Quarter if everyone would live and let live the world would be just fine



  • I don’t hate vegans , I think a lot of them are ridiculous. My favourite is this loon

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9O0Kj_1524190920



  • @No-Quarter said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @canefan said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I think hate levelled at vegans is hugely exaggerated, unless you are talking about those militantly trying to stop the rest of us from enjoying our meat

    I agree. It seems most of us on here know vegans or vegetarians and have no issue with them. It's the militant vegans that people hate. Just like the radical lefties, the right wing nutjobs, the born again Christians etc etc. Anyone that gets in other people's faces and preaches how to live their lives, while arrogantly assuming they know everything and that they are the most morally virtuous person to ever grace the earth, is going to get a fair amount of criticism and mocking directed their way.

    If vegans are worried about people hating them they should direct their ire at the militant branch of veganism that causes this resentment.

    And to be fair most vegetabilists look at these militant fuckwits with as much disdain as us normal, law abiding meat eaters do.



  • @taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @dogmeat said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    charcuterie

    had to google that!

    I thought it was fancy underwear ...


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