Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
What I would like to see is the source data for Cindy's repeated assertion that 100 years ago those countries that locked down most severely came out better off economically in the medium term.
she didn't say that, did she? that's, well, an astounding thing to say in her position.
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@mariner4life I thought she'd been pretty good on any statements like that - but may have missed this one. If she did say that I'd definitely be interested in how they can possibly know at this stage!
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
We thought about doing this before we got locked down, but at $850 for the family (admittedly for 2.5hrs) jusy couldn't justify it.
We did a family holiday to Fiji and we did a jet ski safari, cost us $1200, I woinced but did it as it seemed like a really cool trip.
Would never spend $1200 on any local tourism venture like that.
Double standards, no logical justification and frankly a bit of a dick attitude as helping local business should be important. I am going to work hard to change my attitude. -
@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial i get pretty sick of the "tourism only targets rich overseas customers, and has priced locals out of the market" argument that comes up all the bloody time, and was raring its head a couple of months ago when we already knew tourism was fucked.
These types of comments have no idea the margins that tourism businesses operate at, especially when, for many, the biggest cost is labour, which gets more expensive every year (typically in front of CPI). Our pricing is market driven, especially in a competitive environment (like Cairns, or Rotorua), we generally don't get to move prices very much, as the ITOs just move elsewhere.
Add in the fact almost every operation i know has a local's discount of at least 20%, and i find the argument rarely holds water.
Hang on. I'm not saying that companies are overcharging for their market or what they offer. I'm saying that if they have a model that only works when overseas tourists pay high prices then they need to have a re-think. It may mean that they can't operate, but there will be plenty that could run a light version at lower prices for a domestic market.
When you travel a good distance you do tend to be more willing to cough up more as there is a factor of maybe not having another chance to do/see something. Domestically you tend to be a little tighter. It is a psychological thing. It's not that locals are priced out, just that there perception of value is different than when they travel.
It's the same everywhere. Locals don't spend money in touristy areas as the prices are higher.
Tourism does target willing spenders (overseas tourists). There's no getting around that fact. That doesn't mean that they are ripping people off, just that their business model offers value to that market. If they want to pull through on a domestic market there will need to be some clever thinking.
Take something like bungy jumping down south. They have very big setup costs and a lot of H&S and training costs. However, they also employ enough people to be able to process a bus load quickly. I'm fairly sure they will run a leaner operation for a while and pull through. Domestic tourists are also more likely to want to drive themselves to the sites so places like Nevis may offer a parking option at the bottom of the hill rather than only a shuttle from town/Kawarau Bridge.Not great on the jobs front but if the businesses adjust for a while they could stay afloat domestically.
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I think sometimes it just comes down to a holiday being an overseas thing as a getaway.
I did a holiday back to NZ last year with some mates as a tourist and spent a bucketload doing touristy stuff in the North/BoP/HB.
I likely wouldn't have done the same if I still lived in NZ and my holiday would have been to Asia or the Islands (for examples). But I would probably do odd weekend trips to touristy areas in NZ when hosting visitors from overseas.
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David Clark went to the beach with his family, I get he is the health minster, I get it was wrong. But I am sooo bloody sick of this nonsense. He made a mistake, apologized, there was no spite no malice, no dishonesty, now apparently his career is over. Bullshit.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback I dont think we are are alone, I know when I was in the UK it was more costly to do local holidays than to pop to Europe or slightly further afield...always recall a few conversaitons I had on a constructions site I worked on in London, 2 or 3 Brits there had seen more of NZ than me, yet I had seen more of the UK than them....
@Baron-Silas-Greenback those media gimps would only ask questions about that yesterday, not the actual issues
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Stupid move on his part for sure but, I agree, he is more important to stay in place at the moment.
He has been demoted, copped a pay cut and lost an associate portfolio. No doubt also got one hell of an ear-bashing.I'm sure that this media stuff is a product of the hacks that were desperately looking for a scandalous story and were shut down from diverting the message at the presser the other day. A small group kept harping on about it after being told it was being taken seriously but they weren't going to get their little victory. Now they are pissy because they were exposed as click bait writers and are doubling down. It's like a whole group of Ratpoo's after being ignored by the NZRU.
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I'm sure that this media stuff is a product of the hacks that were desperately looking for a scandalous story and were shut down from diverting the message at the presser the other day. A small group kept harping on about it after being told it was being taken seriously but they weren't going to get their little victory. Now they are pissy because they were exposed as click bait writers and are doubling down. It's like a whole group of Ratpoo's after being ignored by the NZRU.
I think there's a boredom element creeping into the coverage. With no shocking pandemic on the horizon locally, reporters have turned to uncovering 'scandal' and prosecuting the argument as hard as they can.
Because it's more interesting to read and report on than 'case numbers are steady for another day'.
We've had the same issue in Aus with the Ruby Princess cruise ship. Sure it was a costly blunder but the coverage its getting makes you think its our version of Watergate. But what else is there to talk about?
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
And here we go, Labour using the lockdown to get through their idelogy with parliament operating under lockdown. Absolutely no need to rush this in as they are trying to do.
What else are they going to try and sneak in?
I very much disagree with the content of the Bill but I have to say that Nick Smith is either very dumb or shit stirring when in that long post he totally fails to address the quite likely possibility that the Bill needs to move through in order for actions stemming from it to be implemented prior to the election.
So, if there is genuine reason to highlight select committee concerns that haven't been addressed then do so, but trying to paint a picture that this bill is more important to the govt than ones addressing violence for reasons other than timing is mischievous. -
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
And here we go, Labour using the lockdown to get through their idelogy with parliament operating under lockdown. Absolutely no need to rush this in as they are trying to do.
What else are they going to try and sneak in?
I very much disagree with the content of the Bill but I have to say that Nick Smith is either very dumb or shit stirring when in that long post he totally fails to address the quite likely possibility that the Bill needs to move through in order for actions stemming from it to be implemented prior to the election.
So, if there is genuine reason to highlight select committee concerns that haven't been addressed then do so, but trying to paint a picture that this bill is more important to the govt than ones addressing violence for reasons other than timing is mischievous.Is Seymour shit shirring as well?
Or are we seeing a pattern here of Labour not wanting to waste a crisis?
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@barbarian said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
But what else is there to talk about?
Well, now we have George Pell...
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
And here we go, Labour using the lockdown to get through their idelogy with parliament operating under lockdown. Absolutely no need to rush this in as they are trying to do.
What else are they going to try and sneak in?
I very much disagree with the content of the Bill but I have to say that Nick Smith is either very dumb or shit stirring when in that long post he totally fails to address the quite likely possibility that the Bill needs to move through in order for actions stemming from it to be implemented prior to the election.
So, if there is genuine reason to highlight select committee concerns that haven't been addressed then do so, but trying to paint a picture that this bill is more important to the govt than ones addressing violence for reasons other than timing is mischievous.Is Seymour shit shirring as well?
Or are we seeing a pattern here of Labour not wanting to waste a crisis?
No. And I agree that (as he explains it) maybe someone needs to have a rethink about the legislative programme.
My argument isn't with that point, it was with the explanation and motive of Nick Smith who failed to mention basic facts.I might have a look to see what the original timeframes on these were before coming to a conclusion. If, for example, they have had a long time in committee already and are under tactical 'delay' leading to an election then the matter changes somewhat. Most Govt try to cram things through toward the end of the term. I think it is a common gripe.
There is a difference between cramming and shortcutting though. -
@Kirwan I don't think it's a case of trying to rush it through as some sort of secret agenda. It's been well telegraphed as policy and they have the numbers so while I don't agree with it I'm not losing sleep.
Interestingly Matthew Hooton (hardy a leftie) thinks they should keep the current Committee overview structure post lockdown. Thinks it gives the opposition a better chance to scrutinise legislation and does away with the farcical Question Time pantomime. He said it had encouraged proper debate but singled out Seymour as being a bit of a dick.
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Personally, I don't think they should be continuing any new legislation during a lockdown with parliament basically suspended, certainly not speeding up the process and avoiding public involvement.
At best it looks slimy and dishonest.
I don't have strong opinions on the prisoner voting law, not sure that needs to change, but if they try to sneak through the hate speech stuff we are losing basic freedoms.
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@Crucial i don't see the benefit.
Of course our most heavily overseas market dependent operation could run differently. We cut down our days open, and we severely reduce the staff, and look at every aspect of the business. Survive? yes. But there are probably 50 people who don't get their jobs back. A bunch of local suppliers who lose a wedge of trade. Will we charge less? No, because that's not how it works. THe price stays the same, we adjust our costs to meet the greatly reduced turnover.
I mean, maybe you charge less. And run a worse product with no service. And then no one comes anyway.
So i don't exactly get your point to be honest. No one with half a brain is going to ramp straight in to full capacity straight away. But i very much doubt there will be a long period of cheap deals, as just trying to generate volume for volume's sake is a short term proposition.
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Another 54 new and probable cases today, 12 in Hospital, 4 in ICU with 1 in critical condition, still 12 clusters.
241 recovered of the 1160 total
Think JA was asked 3 times if she would sack Clark when things return to normal...