Coronavirus - New Zealand



  • @Tim said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @Hooroo We need flow of people back and forth for sales and other functions, including "mindshare". Education is also a major "export", and finally we need to maintain relationships with governments of our export markets, where there are reciprocal benefits they would expect.

    China already has rapid access for business travellers and foreign workers from Japan, South Korea, and several european countries (48 hours quarantine).

    Mrs CF works at Auckland Uni, overseas students will not be coming back to NZ for second semester. She saw something on Q&A on Sunday, Meghan Woods was saying quarantine capability is already stretched just trying to repatriate NZers. My question is, why the hell isn't someone trying to work this situation out? Businesses that rely on overseas students, rental properties, everyone needs these students back. They spend millions of dollars which the economy desperately needs. We have a standing army that aren't doing a hell of a lot right now. Is there no way we can fashion quarantine facilities, have these kids pay their way and get them back into NZ to generate business ASAP????



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    We have a standing army that aren't doing a hell of a lot right now.

    arent they now managing the isolation facilities?

    Plenty of folk that have lost jobs could be re-deployed though.



  • @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    We have a standing army that aren't doing a hell of a lot right now.

    arent they now managing the isolation facilities?

    Plenty of folk that have lost jobs could be re-deployed though.

    They require every bubble of incoming people their own bathroom facilities for starters. So why do they all need 5 star accomodation? Book lots of different places, I'm not sure what they have out at Whangaparoa, look further afield and pay people to guard them. We are the only place in the world who can consider ourselves a safe haven and an education destination in the Western world right now. Time to shine



  • @canefan
    Some empty fields and knock up some tiny sheds?
    Labor might achieve its Kiwibuild goals after all.



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    Book lots of different places

    not sure how helpful that is, you want them in as fewer places as possoble I'd have thought?



  • @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    Book lots of different places

    not sure how helpful that is, you want them in as fewer places as possoble I'd have thought?

    I mean if they need more space. The cost to get things sorted must be dwarfed by the benefits to the economy



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    We have a standing army that aren't doing a hell of a lot right now.

    arent they now managing the isolation facilities?

    Plenty of folk that have lost jobs could be re-deployed though.

    They require every bubble of incoming people their own bathroom facilities for starters. So why do they all need 5 star accomodation? Book lots of different places, I'm not sure what they have out at Whangaparoa, look further afield and pay people to guard them. We are the only place in the world who can consider ourselves a safe haven and an education destination in the Western world right now. Time to shine*

    I'm not sure where to start, but it's an 11 hour flight on a plane potentially full of virus to get there, after which you'll be locked up for two weeks (and you may have to pay for your prison too if some have their way), before going out into a society where everything is outrageously expensive, to study at schools world ranked 179 (1), between 200 - 350 (3), and between 500-600 (4) which charge the same or more as schools in the top 100.

    You'll need to use shitty public transport, if it is available, which you'll pay the earth for, and you'll enjoy living in a cold, shitty apartment or dorm room while subsidizing the study costs of local students.

    And, of course, you may have trouble getting back to your home country.

    I'm not sure that NZ is quite as attractive as it sounds.

    We've looked at sending students there for years, but on almost every level, NZ lags behind Australia, Canada, and even the USA and England. It's expensive to get to, it's reliant on a cheap NZ dollar to remain economically viable (local prices are out of hand and fees are high), and public transport is terrible.



  • @Tim said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    Spoke to a friend this weekend who normally returns to NZ twice a year. He won't be back anytime soon, and is taking a long holiday in Europe this season, and won't be missing out on anything ...

    The government needs to be very careful with the Fortress New Zealand approach - the rest of the world is moving ahead, opening borders for business travel and tourism, and won't give a fuck about us. We run the risk of damaging relations with export markets and tourism sources.

    I'm not even sure what our medium-term plan is let alone long-term. This disease isn't going away globally, and we can't stay closed for long. It's looking more and more like the full lockdown we did was pretty pointless and just delaying the inevitable.

    When it was initially announced all the talk was about flattening the curve so our health system could cope with the demand, which made sense at the time. But it seems to me that smashing the thing altogether has actually worked against us, as now we'll be expecting another big wave if it breaks out again, whereas if we'd allowed it to spread at a slower rate we could have actually gotten out the other side with our health system still in tact.



  • @No-Quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    whereas if we'd allowed it to spread at a slower rate we could have actually gotten out the other side with our health system still in tact.

    what would that have looked like? Which country has done this successfully?

    Genuine question...we have been told other countries envy the way we did things, I'm not sure we did it right, but also not sure we did it wrong either.

    I do agree I have no idea what our plans are for the next 6/12/18 months, at some point we need to open up...or are we just hoping a vaccine becomes available in the next 12 months or so to solve the problem itself?



  • Are we that screwed without open borders? If it becomes the new normal and people get used to domestic tourism, perhaps with the Aussies and the Pacific, won't the economy pivot?



  • @pakman said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    Two straight questions: (i) how many NZ passports are there; and (ii) how many passport holders live outside NZ?

    Used to be said when population was 4m, that there were 4m passport holders outside NZ.

    One would hope that info would be online, but it doesn't seem to be easily accessible. Looking through DIA reports, I would estimate 3.5 million or so passports in circulation based on numbers issued in the past 5 years, but that will be able to be updated after the DIA annual report for 2019-2020 is published. Citizens in and and out of NZ also isn't obviously online, so I asked Stats NZ that question.



  • @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @pakman said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    Two straight questions: (i) how many NZ passports are there; and (ii) how many passport holders live outside NZ?

    Used to be said when population was 4m, that there were 4m passport holders outside NZ.

    One would hope that info would be online, but it doesn't seem to be easily accessible. Looking through DIA reports, I would estimate 3.5 million or so passports in circulation based on numbers issued in the past 5 years, but that will be able to be updated after the DIA annual report for 2019-2020 is published. Citizens in and and out of NZ also isn't obviously online, so I asked Stats NZ that question.

    Thanks. Will be interesting to see response!



  • @gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    We've looked at sending students there for years, but on almost every level, NZ lags behind Australia, Canada, and even the USA and England.

    That will remain true well into the future as well. At best we've been a solid 5th in international student destination interest. Yet it's still been enough to become technically NZ's fourth largest export revenue earner.

    A focus on sheer volume has arguably the biggest issue for the sector (along with wider NZ public transport issues, cold homes in winter, etc),.



  • @gt12 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    We've looked at sending students there for years, but on almost every level, NZ lags behind Australia, Canada, and even the USA and England. It's expensive to get to, it's reliant on a cheap NZ dollar to remain economically viable (local prices are out of hand and fees are high), and public transport is terrible.

    Except as a place to live - and that's the edge we can grow through here. If you want to live an outdoor lifestyle, Canterbury Uni would suit you down to the ground, without the population and insanity of US or UK, or the animals and plants trying to kill you in Australia.

    So you're absolutely right, but it'd still be an attractive destination for some folk.



  • @pakman said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @pakman said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    Two straight questions: (i) how many NZ passports are there; and (ii) how many passport holders live outside NZ?

    Used to be said when population was 4m, that there were 4m passport holders outside NZ.

    One would hope that info would be online, but it doesn't seem to be easily accessible. Looking through DIA reports, I would estimate 3.5 million or so passports in circulation based on numbers issued in the past 5 years, but that will be able to be updated after the DIA annual report for 2019-2020 is published. Citizens in and and out of NZ also isn't obviously online, so I asked Stats NZ that question.

    Thanks. Will be interesting to see response!

    Stats NZ replied, apparently they don't know how many citizens there are.



  • @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @pakman said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @pakman said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    Two straight questions: (i) how many NZ passports are there; and (ii) how many passport holders live outside NZ?

    Used to be said when population was 4m, that there were 4m passport holders outside NZ.

    One would hope that info would be online, but it doesn't seem to be easily accessible. Looking through DIA reports, I would estimate 3.5 million or so passports in circulation based on numbers issued in the past 5 years, but that will be able to be updated after the DIA annual report for 2019-2020 is published. Citizens in and and out of NZ also isn't obviously online, so I asked Stats NZ that question.

    Thanks. Will be interesting to see response!

    Stats NZ replied, apparently they don't know how many citizens there are.

    She'll be right, mate!



  • @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    Are we that screwed without open borders? If it becomes the new normal and people get used to domestic tourism, perhaps with the Aussies and the Pacific, won't the economy pivot?

    That's like asking everyone to scale back their lives by 20%. Can we "pivot" there? Maybe. Will it be good? Nope. It's significant unemployment and reduced GDP in a world where we have a hugely inflated government debt. It's really not good.

    The Aussies are really key, we need that corridor open. And I worry we need them more than they need us.

    I said it a month or so ago, I just don't know what we are shooting for here. What's the end game? How do we get back to some sense of normal? Absent a vaccine or an immediate test, we just have a massively reduced economy and a shut border. We just have to develop an appetite for Covid on some level or else we are looking at some socialist island life that I don't think we have signed up for.



  • @voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    The Aussies are really key, we need that corridor open. And I worry we need them more than they need us.

    think that has been the case all along, when talk of a Pacific Island bubble was being mooted, it was not as appealing as it would be mainly one way (more so than Aus to NZ)

    Agree though, it'd be nice to have some kind of long term strategy, even if it needs to be changed in 2 months as things evolve, I think people need something to aim towards, right now, there is nothing.

    And then we see this in the media...

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/121990526/researchers-find-new-swine-flulike-virus-in-pigs



  • @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    The Aussies are really key, we need that corridor open. And I worry we need them more than they need us.

    think that has been the case all along, when talk of a Pacific Island bubble was being mooted, it was not as appealing as it would be mainly one way (more so than Aus to NZ)

    Agree though, it'd be nice to have some kind of long term strategy, even if it needs to be changed in 2 months as things evolve, I think people need something to aim towards, right now, there is nothing.

    And then we see this in the media...

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/121990526/researchers-find-new-swine-flulike-virus-in-pigs

    @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    The Aussies are really key, we need that corridor open. And I worry we need them more than they need us.

    think that has been the case all along, when talk of a Pacific Island bubble was being mooted, it was not as appealing as it would be mainly one way (more so than Aus to NZ)

    Agree though, it'd be nice to have some kind of long term strategy, even if it needs to be changed in 2 months as things evolve, I think people need something to aim towards, right now, there is nothing.

    And then we see this in the media...

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/121990526/researchers-find-new-swine-flulike-virus-in-pigs

    Fuck!!! I just ate a pork loin roast for dinner!!

    I'm totally screwed now.



  • @voodoo said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    Are we that screwed without open borders? If it becomes the new normal and people get used to domestic tourism, perhaps with the Aussies and the Pacific, won't the economy pivot?

    That's like asking everyone to scale back their lives by 20%. Can we "pivot" there? Maybe. Will it be good? Nope. It's significant unemployment and reduced GDP in a world where we have a hugely inflated government debt. It's really not good.

    The Aussies are really key, we need that corridor open. And I worry we need them more than they need us.

    I said it a month or so ago, I just don't know what we are shooting for here. What's the end game? How do we get back to some sense of normal? Absent a vaccine or an immediate test, we just have a massively reduced economy and a shut border. We just have to develop an appetite for Covid on some level or else we are looking at some socialist island life that I don't think we have signed up for.

    Even the biggest estimates of international tourism and education don't come to 20% of GDP, and the actual jobs in those industries are often low wage, low hour garbage.

    International education as we practise it is an abomination unto mankind - come one, come all, and unscrupulous people sell it as a pathway to residence in NZ, except a lot of the courses actually aren't. It is an absolute national and international disgrace and we are complicit in the total destruction of lives and wealth, sometimes of every penny whole families can muster for their children.



  • @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    International education as we practise it is an abomination unto mankind - come one, come all, and unscrupulous people sell it as a pathway to residence in NZ, except a lot of the courses actually aren't

    Australia really isn't much different. So much dodgy stuff goes on with internationals and the Oz govt just looks the other way.



  • @voodoo there is another option which I have always thought the most likely outcome; which is that treatments for COVID become available that turn it from "the plague" into something much less frightening that allows us to relax enough to resume normal life.

    Something that means effective treatments lower the mortality rate dramatically. I think this is much more achievable in the short term than the holy grail of a workable vaccine. So a hydroxychlorine that actually works.



  • @Nepia said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    International education as we practise it is an abomination unto mankind - come one, come all, and unscrupulous people sell it as a pathway to residence in NZ, except a lot of the courses actually aren't

    Australia really isn't much different. So much dodgy stuff goes on with internationals and the Oz govt just looks the other way.

    Yep, I remember reading an article in The Australian a few years ago where you could have done a Find & Replace to swap "Australia" for "New Zealand" and the issues raised would have been identical. Unfortunately for both places, and for the students affected...



  • Tourism (domestic and international) was 5.8% of GDP last year. Indirect flow effects account for another 4.3 %. Fuck screwing over the other 90% of the economy to start the international part of that up again. When Australia gets their shit together, then maybe just them, for the 40% of total tourism the Aussies bring to the party



  • @Stockcar86 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    Fuck screwing over the other 90% of the economy

    Yep. That won't happen. Doing the same thing again and expecting a different result might lead to people thinking they are incompetent idiots, and rather a lot of civil disobedience from those that are trying to keep themselves afloat.



  • Banner on front page of Stuff
    1532dc4a-a81a-4a78-83a0-da3ac3bbbf2f-image.png

    Click on it and it takes you to below
    have to scroll down through the stuff to get to the bit where they breifly talk about reviewing compassionate exemptions...

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300047453/live-megan-woods-addresses-covid19-response-on-the-day-david-clark-resigns-as-health-minister



  • FFS, a woman escaped from isolation last night for about 2 hours...she should be fucking jailed for at least 30 days now!

    Police now need to do contact tracing...what an absolute fluffybunny of a person!





  • @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    FFS, a woman escaped from isolation last night for about 2 hours...she should be fucking jailed for at least 30 days now!

    Police now need to do contact tracing...what an absolute fluffybunny of a person!

    Scaled a wall apparently? Should be a huge fine, more for a deterrant than a punishment



  • @voodoo maybe just extend her isolation period, behind some bars...public endangerment!!



  • @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @voodoo maybe just extend her isolation period, behind some bars...public endangerment!!

    At her own expense!!!



  • @Tim said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    To be fair, I'd be pretty livid myself, if it turned out the airline had overbooked a flight, and because of that - I had to not only wait 2 or 3 days, but also pay the costs.
    FFS - Air NZ - if you've overbooked (sure - standard practice, in the past - perhaps time to rethink that) - at least pay for the accom/meals of passengers you boot off.

    Edit - and no, I didn't read the full article. I'm sure there's something in there to thoroughly invalidate my understandng of the situation, and therefore my pissed-up opinion.



  • @Kruse nah, you had it right first time



  • @Kruse shit Air NZ are shooting themselves in the feet repeatedly right now



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @Kruse shit Air NZ are shooting themselves in the feet repeatedly right now

    It's insurance and the Canterbury earthquakes all over again... They can eat small losses here and there, but when something big happens, they are suddenly cutting corners everywhere.



  • in the current environment, overbooking would seem ridiculous!!

    But I know they overbook all the time (having been bumped off a Akl - Wgn flight for being 0 minutes late)



  • @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    in the current environment, overbooking would seem ridiculous!!

    But I know they overbook all the time (having been bumped off a Akl - Wgn flight for being 0 minutes late)

    Normal practice but this isn’t normal times and they should be doing better.

    Up to 20% overbooking on some routes, because you fuckers don’t show up, then bags get off loaded because of terrorists, that cause delays, that you complain about.

    So bloody show up when you book a flight, or cancel it, and the problem goes away.



  • @Kruse livid? I thought they found it hysterical.

    Air NZ, poopoo.

    I'll just set the @Snowy timer...



  • @Bones said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @Kruse livid? I thought they found it hysterical.

    Air NZ, poopoo.

    I'll just set the @Snowy timer...

    Not on that one. As I said they should do better than that. Have cut too many staff and that is causing a lot of issues apparently.



  • @Snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    @taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:

    in the current environment, overbooking would seem ridiculous!!

    But I know they overbook all the time (having been bumped off a Akl - Wgn flight for being 0 minutes late)

    Normal practice but this isn’t normal times and they should be doing better.

    Up to 20% overbooking on some routes, because you fuckers don’t show up, then bags get off loaded because of terrorists, that cause delays, that you complain about.

    So bloody show up when you book a flight, or cancel it, and the problem goes away.

    Yep, agree with all of that.
    You'd think it should be pretty obvious that currently... the chance of somebody not bothering to show up is greatly reduced. If I'm booking a flight, it's with plenty of forethought and intention.
    Except, maybe, corporate fluffybunnies, just booking shit “just in case”?


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