Coronavirus - Australia



  • @dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    The whole Boomers had it easy argument really doesn't stack up unless you want to cherry pick the criteria by which the argument is measured.

    It's an economic argument and it holds true. Labour force participation rate, increased access to higher education (six times the rate of population growth over a generation and Whitlam providing free tertiary education). Now students pay HECS (government loan for higher education) and the university fees are unregulated. Then after accruing debt they face being among the 15% that don't find employment up to four years after they've completed their degree. If they do it's in a market increasingly marked by uncertainty associated with the "gig economy". The favourable capital gains legislation providing a boon to those who purchased property decades ago and did nothing other than witness migration and OS investment drive real estate values. Helped in no small measure by legislation favouring investment in the housing market. Then in the main income producing years of their worklife they've had decades without recession and favourable superannuation treatment, while the generations that follow them face increasing healthcare imposts on government expenditure, loss of income tied up in superannuation which has a net negative impact for the foreseeable future (and likely to be compounded if the planned increase to 12% happens).

    I'm not a boomer, nor am I in the generation taking it hard in the arse, but I do sympathise with them. Their plight is real and is currently being exacerbated by Covid-19. Boomers had a unique opportunity to create wealth by accident of birthdate.



  • @NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    When the Greens back nuclear, I know we're being serious about climate change.

    Sorry one minute you're talking about pursuing sound economics, then you're talking about completely irrational economics.

    Which is it?

    Nuclear remains the cheapest, safest, cleanest, most dependable form of energy generation per MWh yet implemented.



  • @antipodean Don’t want to lead the thread too off topic especially as I can’t talk to the Australian experience but despite the narrative here being similar boomers had far less access to education went through multiple recessions lives in a much less open society with way fewer opportunities were far less connected had negligible leisure opportunities and housing was even less affordable than it is today. could keep on but it’s largely pointless. Every generation has its challenges. Blaming another for all the ills of society just strikes me as a massive cop out.



  • @dogmeat I can't speak knowledgeably about generational difference outside of Australia, but there's no doubt that the power of their voting bloc has meant both major political parties in Australia have ensured their policy position heavily favoured them.

    But the response here is making a bad situation even worse for Gen Z.





  • @NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    everyone see the woman who pasted the vid last week going through the check point...arrested yesterday for more or less doing the same thing, smashed her car window and dragged her out

    🤔

    139d0a13-dbdd-4b9a-969e-715d81f8fde8-image.png

    She's a stripper!! How good?!



  • Spoke to my sister in Melbourne, apparently they are about to head into level 4 lockdown. Funny because I thought they were already there



  • @mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @NTA said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    everyone see the woman who pasted the vid last week going through the check point...arrested yesterday for more or less doing the same thing, smashed her car window and dragged her out

    🤔

    139d0a13-dbdd-4b9a-969e-715d81f8fde8-image.png

    She's a stripper!! How good?!

    Trip to Melbourne post-covid looking good



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    Spoke to my sister in Melbourne, apparently they are about to head into level 4 lockdown. Funny because I thought they were already there

    The speculation is rife. Currently in “level 3”, whatever that actually means!



  • @ACT-Crusader said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    Spoke to my sister in Melbourne, apparently they are about to head into level 4 lockdown. Funny because I thought they were already there

    The speculation is rife. Currently in “level 3”, whatever that actually means!

    It means not smart enough to be at level 4!



  • @barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @antipodean Why? We've done this before. I fundamentally disagree with the idea we could have avoided the debt and the unemployment.

    Do you think the Melbourne lockdown should end?

    I genuinely think there's a direct link between consumer confidence and the spread of the virus. If there were no lockdowns and the disease spread, do you really think people would still eat at restaurants, or go on flights, or go to footy games?

    Sure a few might, but most wouldn't. They'd go into a kind of self-imposed lockdown. So you'd get the same result, with or without Government action.

    Which begs the question: why have a government lockdown?



  • @dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    the measures we're taking are heavily swayed to the generations that have had the deck loaded for them all their lives.

    If someone else had made a similar comment in a different context you'd be all over them for being entitled / whingers etc.

    The whole Boomers had it easy argument really doesn't stack up unless you want to cherry pick the criteria by which the argument is measured. As for the pre- Boomer generations yeah really loaded deck.

    No issue with the rest of your argument although as has been said it totally ignores the fact that many of your most profitable industries would be fucked irrespective of whether OZ had remained totally open. Tourism would still be crap and a global downturn is inevitably going to screw the great Aussie dig shit out of the ground industry. Sweden did what you suggest and economically they are no better off than their Scandinavian neighbours.

    The bolded bit though - victim mentality / politics of envy and deserves to be called out as such.

    OK boomer



  • Coronavirus: Stage 4 lockdown expected for Victoria

    Victoria is expected to go into the highest level of coronavirus lockdown since the COVID-19 crisis hit Australia – Stage 4 restrictions – in the early hours of Wednesday.

    An announcement on the new level of restrictions aimed at halting Victoria’s spiralling coronavirus infection and death rates is expected on Sunday or Monday.
    Victoria’s dramatic collapse on coronavirus is threatening any national economic recovery and has led to Victorians being blocked from travelling to other parts of Australia.
    The tough new restrictions, similar to the New Zealand lockdown preventing movement and business, are expected to last for another six weeks and would close all but essential businesses and send high-school students back to learning from home.

    The Morrison government’s whole budget strategy announced just two weeks ago was based on the assumption the Victorian Stage 3 lockdown would be lifted in just six weeks.
    Under the NZ-style lockdown rules, supermarkets and chemists would remain open but restaurants and cafes would be restricted to take-away service only.

    But under the NZ rules, only one person from a family can go to a supermarket at a time and movements are limited to within 5km of home.
    Public transport would be severely limited but exercise would be allowed with the existing rules on wearing a mask.

    During the 48 hours since Thursday, both Daniel Andrews and Scott Morrison have indicated higher restrictions may be necessary in Victoria as “unknown” sources of COVID-19 infections have grown and undermined attempts to trace and contact infected people.
    Victoria’s death toll has climbed dramatically in recent days and the infections rate is predicted to soar beyond all other Australian states and territories as well as some overseas sites.
    There are now 5,919 active cases across Victoria, with 397 more infections detected on Saturday and three more deaths, taking the state’s death toll to 116.
    The final decision on the move to Stage 4 restrictions is the sole responsibility of the Victorian Government and the timing of the decision and its announcement are in the hands of the Premier, Daniel Andrews.
    Political circles in Victoria came alive on Saturday night with the speculation and expectation of a move to Stage 4 next week and The Australian understands an announcement is likely on Sunday or Monday.



  • Pretty extreme restrictions given there's only 40 in ICU. Are people picking up the virus at night? Don't quite understand the need for a curfew.



  • @barbarian dinner parties and parties I guess? Honestly though, fuck lockdown again. If I do 2 weeks in hotel Q in 3 weeks only to find NSW in a lockdown, I'll fucking top myself!!!



  • @voodoo thought those were banned already?



  • @barbarian sure, but if you just kick all the cars off the road from 8pm, I guess it's easier to police

    Edit - to be clear, I am certainly not saying I agree with the curfew!



  • @barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @voodoo thought those were banned already?

    Barbs pulling out all the stops in support of a fellow ferner. Yeah topping yourself is banned.

    Don't do it @voodoo you've got plenty more rants left in ya yet.



  • @Bones said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @voodoo thought those were banned already?

    Barbs pulling out all the stops in support of a fellow ferner. Yeah topping yourself is banned.

    Don't do it @voodoo you've got plenty more rants left in ya yet.

    Wouldn't want to get banned eh, cheers.

    I will fucking laugh hysterically though if it happens. Hysterical like the Joker or Jack in the Shining.



  • @voodoo said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @Bones said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @voodoo thought those were banned already?

    Barbs pulling out all the stops in support of a fellow ferner. Yeah topping yourself is banned.

    Don't do it @voodoo you've got plenty more rants left in ya yet.

    Wouldn't want to get banned eh, cheers.

    I will fucking laugh hysterically though if it happens. Hysterical like the Joker or Jack in the Shining.

    That's not banned.



  • @barbarian said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    Pretty extreme restrictions given there's only 40 in ICU. Are people picking up the virus at night? Don't quite understand the need for a curfew.

    It’s a big step. They had to call an state of emergency to enable the curfew.

    The very worrying stat is the 700+ cases that appear to be not contact traced.



  • alt text

    A curfew. I didn't realise the virus was only spread at night. What an ingenious solution, although the question remains why they didn't think of this earlier.

    You can bet these restrictions don't mean jack shit for the Chief Health Officer or the Premier.

    “It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.”
    ― Thomas Sowell



  • why are people latching on to the curfew? isn't it pretty obvious, there are far fewer thing to do at night so its more likely you are just going out to socialise with friends/family and thats where theyre seeing community transmission. That means those people that are flaunting the rules would have to socilise during the day but if they're luckily enough to still have a job theyre not going to have the time

    The new rules were less strict than i was expecting and in all fairness not a huge change to our current way of life, 5km is still a decent distance, our biggest problem living in port is about half out 5km circle is in the harbor and another big chunk is the CBD



  • @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    why are people latching on to the curfew? isn't it pretty obvious, there are far fewer thing to do at night so its more likely you are just going out to socialise with friends/family and thats where theyre seeing community transmission. That means those people that are flaunting the rules would have to socilise during the day but if they're luckily enough to still have a job theyre not going to have the time

    I remain amazed at how easily people are willing to trade liberty for the perception of security. You do realise if socialising is the issue you can ban that? Oh wait, they did.

    Given the inability of the "tracers" to determine hundreds of active cases, I'd suggest that they actually don't know that socialising at night with friends and family is the source of community transmission.

    The new rules were less strict than i was expecting and in all fairness not a huge change to our current way of life, 5km is still a decent distance, our biggest problem living in port is about half out 5km circle is in the harbor and another big chunk is the CBD

    I guess if you pretend that level four isn't a great deal of difference from a level three perspective, then you're a frog approaching boiling point.

    And that's before we acknowledge Victoria isn't seeing exponential increases...



  • @antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    why are people latching on to the curfew? isn't it pretty obvious, there are far fewer thing to do at night so its more likely you are just going out to socialise with friends/family and thats where theyre seeing community transmission. That means those people that are flaunting the rules would have to socilise during the day but if they're luckily enough to still have a job theyre not going to have the time

    I remain amazed at how easily people are willing to trade liberty for the perception of security. You do realise if socialising is the issue you can ban that? Oh wait, they did.

    Given the inability of the "tracers" to determine hundreds of active cases, I'd suggest that they actually don't know that socialising at night with friends and family is the source of community transmission.

    The new rules were less strict than i was expecting and in all fairness not a huge change to our current way of life, 5km is still a decent distance, our biggest problem living in port is about half out 5km circle is in the harbor and another big chunk is the CBD

    I guess if you pretend that level four isn't a great deal of difference from a level three perspective, then you're a frog approaching boiling point.

    And that's before we acknowledge Victoria isn't seeing exponential increases...

    not pretending, we were generally staying around port/south melbounre and considering bars etc were closed we were't going out at night, short of whatever hes going to announce today it isn't a huge change for us

    and as for the tracing or inability to trace, they can trace things like work...and so its not exactly a huge deduction to say the community transmission is coming for social activities

    my only real issue is they should have done this at the start of the second lockdown



  • stay strong Vic ferners. This will suck. Especially because you can see other states at the pub, or watching your sports teams.

    I have a sneaky suspicion Qld will close its borders again this week



  • @antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    I remain amazed at how easily people are willing to trade liberty for the perception of security. You do realise if socialising is the issue you can ban that? Oh wait, they did.

    Easy there, Karen.



  • @mariner4life at least the Highlanders are wi....oh...at least the swans are wi....never mind



  • @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    why are people latching on to the curfew? isn't it pretty obvious, there are far fewer thing to do at night so its more likely you are just going out to socialise with friends/family and thats where theyre seeing community transmission. That means those people that are flaunting the rules would have to socilise during the day but if they're luckily enough to still have a job theyre not going to have the time

    I remain amazed at how easily people are willing to trade liberty for the perception of security. You do realise if socialising is the issue you can ban that? Oh wait, they did.

    Given the inability of the "tracers" to determine hundreds of active cases, I'd suggest that they actually don't know that socialising at night with friends and family is the source of community transmission.

    The new rules were less strict than i was expecting and in all fairness not a huge change to our current way of life, 5km is still a decent distance, our biggest problem living in port is about half out 5km circle is in the harbor and another big chunk is the CBD

    I guess if you pretend that level four isn't a great deal of difference from a level three perspective, then you're a frog approaching boiling point.

    And that's before we acknowledge Victoria isn't seeing exponential increases...

    not pretending, we were generally staying around port/south melbounre and considering bars etc were closed we were't going out at night, short of whatever hes going to announce today it isn't a huge change for us

    Unfortunately for a great deal of people, it is a huge change for them.

    and as for the tracing or inability to trace, they can trace things like work...and so its not exactly a huge deduction to say the community transmission is coming for social activities

    Well if it were that simple, they wouldn't be having a problem doing it would they?



  • @antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    why are people latching on to the curfew? isn't it pretty obvious, there are far fewer thing to do at night so its more likely you are just going out to socialise with friends/family and thats where theyre seeing community transmission. That means those people that are flaunting the rules would have to socilise during the day but if they're luckily enough to still have a job theyre not going to have the time

    I remain amazed at how easily people are willing to trade liberty for the perception of security. You do realise if socialising is the issue you can ban that? Oh wait, they did.

    Given the inability of the "tracers" to determine hundreds of active cases, I'd suggest that they actually don't know that socialising at night with friends and family is the source of community transmission.

    The new rules were less strict than i was expecting and in all fairness not a huge change to our current way of life, 5km is still a decent distance, our biggest problem living in port is about half out 5km circle is in the harbor and another big chunk is the CBD

    I guess if you pretend that level four isn't a great deal of difference from a level three perspective, then you're a frog approaching boiling point.

    And that's before we acknowledge Victoria isn't seeing exponential increases...

    not pretending, we were generally staying around port/south melbounre and considering bars etc were closed we were't going out at night, short of whatever hes going to announce today it isn't a huge change for us

    Unfortunately for a great deal of people, it is a huge change for them.

    and as for the tracing or inability to trace, they can trace things like work...and so its not exactly a huge deduction to say the community transmission is coming for social activities

    Well if it were that simple, they wouldn't be having a problem doing it would they?

    thats the point, there isn't any record of these social interactions so they have to stop/limit them



  • @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @antipodean said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    why are people latching on to the curfew? isn't it pretty obvious, there are far fewer thing to do at night so its more likely you are just going out to socialise with friends/family and thats where theyre seeing community transmission. That means those people that are flaunting the rules would have to socilise during the day but if they're luckily enough to still have a job theyre not going to have the time

    I remain amazed at how easily people are willing to trade liberty for the perception of security. You do realise if socialising is the issue you can ban that? Oh wait, they did.

    Given the inability of the "tracers" to determine hundreds of active cases, I'd suggest that they actually don't know that socialising at night with friends and family is the source of community transmission.

    The new rules were less strict than i was expecting and in all fairness not a huge change to our current way of life, 5km is still a decent distance, our biggest problem living in port is about half out 5km circle is in the harbor and another big chunk is the CBD

    I guess if you pretend that level four isn't a great deal of difference from a level three perspective, then you're a frog approaching boiling point.

    And that's before we acknowledge Victoria isn't seeing exponential increases...

    not pretending, we were generally staying around port/south melbounre and considering bars etc were closed we were't going out at night, short of whatever hes going to announce today it isn't a huge change for us

    Unfortunately for a great deal of people, it is a huge change for them.

    and as for the tracing or inability to trace, they can trace things like work...and so its not exactly a huge deduction to say the community transmission is coming for social activities

    Well if it were that simple, they wouldn't be having a problem doing it would they?

    thats the point, there isn't any record of these social interactions so they have to stop/limit them

    If it were that simple, they'd just have to ask wouldn't they?

    "Have you had a large family/ friends gathering recently ?"
    "Why yes"
    "And who was there?"

    Amazingly complicated.



  • @antipodean ...people lie...is this news to you?

    people go to parties where they only know half the people

    people forget they stopped to get petrol on the way somewhere

    are you being deliberately obtuse?



  • @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @antipodean ...people lie...is this news to you?

    people go to parties where they only know half the people

    people forget they stopped to get petrol on the way somewhere

    are you being deliberately obtuse?

    Clearly. According to you people lie (so why bother contact tracing?) and in your false dichotomy the only explanation for these cases is night time parties.



  • @antipodean not the only...but one...people seem to be obsessed with a silver bullet, this magical answer to everything and if it doesn't then dont bother...ts one step off..."not everything is clear too me...it must be a conspiracy!"

    its naive...almost everything in live is made up of lots of small steps, if this is a step towards narrowing down the sources of spread then its a step in the right direction



  • @Kiwiwomble Something for you to ponder on - is this level of policy response sustainable every time there's an outbreak while we all wait for immunity (however we achieve that)? I'd suggest it's not.



  • @antipodean given there are two potential vaccines in Aus alone going into human testing i would say it is only needed until a vaccine is ready and so i see it as implement these restrictions to get the spread to stop/slow and the death toll to slow/stop and then eased restrictions until there is a vaccine

    I'd just like Vic to align its cases with the rest of the country so that borders might be able to open



  • @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @antipodean given there are two potential vaccines in Aus alone going into human testing i would say it is only needed until a vaccine is ready and so i see it as implement these restrictions to get the spread to stop/slow and the death toll to slow/stop and then eased restrictions until there is a vaccine

    The presumption being there will be a vaccine and soon. Not a good basis from which to make public policy.

    I'd just like Vic to align its cases with the rest of the country so that borders might be able to open

    I'd prefer a wall along the Murray.



  • @antipodean and thats when i realised you're just trolling



  • @Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Australia:

    @antipodean and thats when i realised you're just trolling

    Making a joke about Victorians does not extend to my valid criticisms as trolling. But paint them as such if it makes it easier for you to cope.



  • all you filthy mexicans need to sort your shit out, collectively


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