'Super Rugby' 2021



  • We have discussed before how a draft wouldn't work in NZ.
    IMO we fucked up a lot of the parochial aspect of NZ rugby and the supporters bragging rights when we set up the franchises. It fucked up even more when the franchise based provinces became the route to pro rugby.
    Over time at least we stemmed that a little by the re-jig of NPC and franchises showing more willingness to appoint from 'lesser' unions and the franchises have been going long enough that they have attracted their own support levels.
    Re-setting all that again is crazy. I wouldn't want to become a Blues supporter. It has taken me decades to get my head around supporting a Waikato based team.



  • @Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    a Blues supporter

    Who did you support in the Lomu and Vidiri Blues years? Genuinely curious.

    I know what you mean. About the original borders. But having expansion teams from other countries has bothered me way more than our internal border changes.



  • @Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    We have discussed before how a draft wouldn't work in NZ.
    IMO we fucked up a lot of the parochial aspect of NZ rugby and the supporters bragging rights when we set up the franchises. It fucked up even more when the franchise based provinces became the route to pro rugby.
    Over time at least we stemmed that a little by the re-jig of NPC and franchises showing more willingness to appoint from 'lesser' unions and the franchises have been going long enough that they have attracted their own support levels.
    Re-setting all that again is crazy. I wouldn't want to become a Blues supporter. It has taken me decades to get my head around supporting a Waikato based team.

    agree with the first half of that....but you know there no rule saying you have to support the team covering your area



  • Rough populations: (if split Auckland in 3, and re-jig the Auckland/Manukau border)

    North Auckland: 585,000
    Auckland: 682,000
    South Auckland: 563,000
    Chiefs: 806,000
    LNI: 580,00
    Hurricanes (Greater Wellington): 527,000
    Crusaders: 818,000
    Highlanders: 337,000

    (based on 2018 data)



  • and my original proposal, splitting the Chiefs.

    North Auckland: 585,000
    Auckland: 1,245,000
    Greater Waikato: 482,000
    BOP + Gisborne: 374,000
    LNI: 580,00
    Greater Wellington: 527,000
    Crusaders: 818,000
    Highlanders: 337,000



  • @Rapido Got something like registered player numbers to base that on?

    The demographics might change a bit if you include the over 70s women in the BOP region for example.



  • @Snowy I thought that Delloitte State of the Nation report detailed player numbers?

    It will be on this site somewhere I expect...🔭



  • @taniwharugby Not sure that I would trust that.

    We are all Polish women after all?





  • @Rapido Got to admit. Yours is probably the worst proposal I have seen out of all of them.
    It simultaneously kills the golden goose that is our 5 strong franchises, throws away the 20 years of history built on those “new” teams, creates new artificial teams with no existing united supporter base, dilutes the player quality in the comp overall, severely depletes the NI sides while keeping a team that has dominated 4 season in a row (and frankly much of the last 20 years) intact and will probably damage the npc by filling some of the gap between the current levels.

    If we are going to destroy our Super sides then can them altogether and build a robust two tiered system with the existing npc and heartland sides. No crossover games but automatic promotion and relegation.



  • @mofitzy_ said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    A Pasifika team only makes sense if they are based in Suva or Honolulu etc.

    Agree with this. People saying Auckland needs a Pasifika Super Franchise have forgotten about the Blues.



  • @sparky said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    @mofitzy_ said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    A Pasifika team only makes sense if they are based in Suva or Honolulu etc.

    Agree with this. People saying Auckland needs a Pasifika Super Franchise have forgotten about the Blues.



  • @Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    @sparky said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    @mofitzy_ said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    A Pasifika team only makes sense if they are based in Suva or Honolulu etc.

    Agree with this. People saying Auckland needs a Pasifika Super Franchise have forgotten about the Blues.

    What happened there? I got nothing.



  • @Snowy QFT

    Quoted For Truth

    nah I just fucked up, don't even know what I was typing in there when I got interupted



  • @Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    @Crucial said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    a Blues supporter

    Who did you support in the Lomu and Vidiri Blues years? Genuinely curious.

    I'm not sure how many times I have explained this. Usually it is after the usual derision for changing allegiance.

    When Super first started I only took a passing interest. It was a gimmick based in the big towns.
    You are correct that, in theory I should have been a Blues supporter and while I watched them to see those two players the underlying feeling was that the AUCKLAND Blues didn't give a rats about genuinely selecting from Counties. Players were overlooked in favour of average Aucklanders. I felt very little connection. I viewed these new teams as just companies. They didn't warrant my support just by being.
    A little later I was living in Wellington with a young son keen on going to matches with his mates. He was playing for a local club and getting all the promotional stuff. When you have Jonah, Cully and Tana all playing it was pretty hard to not go to games and therefore I 'followed' the Canes more than being a supporter but over the years they were the team I cheered for.
    That all changed when the Hammatuer decided he could change the whole culture of the team and along with it the exciting style that was fun to watch. I got sick of that clown quite quickly. It coincided with the change to the NPC and the way players were being selected. CM players finally had a proper pathway and I got to watch many of them play at the next level in the Chiefs. Chiefs have my support because generally they select and develop more CM players than other franchises.



  • @Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    @Snowy QFT

    Quoted For Truth

    nah I just fucked up, don't even know what I was typing in there when I got interupted

    Still in the top 50% of posts



  • @antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    @Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    @Snowy QFT

    Quoted For Truth

    nah I just fucked up, don't even know what I was typing in there when I got interupted

    Still in the top 50% of posts

    Harsh.

    @Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    nah I just fucked up, don't even know what I was typing in there

    That is one of the greatest posts . Top 3%.



  • I struggle to see how the Force can be included they were the whipping boys for the Aussie teams how are they going to go having to come over and play in NZ



  • @mikey07 said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    I struggle to see how the Force can be included they were the whipping boys for the Aussie teams how are they going to go having to come over and play in NZ

    That's easy to answer: "Something, something, Twiggy, 20 year plan."



  • @Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    @mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    @Rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    BOP: gain East Coast and Poverty Bay (just tokenism really, can't be a single province franchise. But trying to add another largish NPC union like Hawkes Bay would just create another Frankenstein, BOP is where the growth is)

    did you see the BOP team on the weekend? What would that do v the Crusaders?

    Get thrashed, Crusaders got thrashed repeatedly in 1996. But getting thrashed is only temporary if the structure of the competition doesn't entrench it.

    Although the thread is Super Rugby 2021, my proposals are for a permanent structure not a one-off quick fix.

    Lots of teams will get thrashed in 2021 by the Crusaders in the likely format. 3 of the Australians plus the Pasifika team will get reamed by them. But, worse, that will probably be a permanent state of affairs. Pasifika because of money and Australian franchises because they're trying to create 5 teams outs of 3 teams worth of talent, hamstringing themselves with players needing to be Australian qualified or potentially qualified, in a comp that includes another country creating only 5 teams but out of 6 teams worth of talent.

    So your solution is to dilute NZ's talent and have 8 teams??





  • @Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/300109840/super-rugby-aratipu-advised-against-sixth-kiwi-team-pasifika-doubts-persist

    Now watch them ignore those recommendations and add a “pacific” team aka NZ number 6.

    They will be rubbish and then the whinging will start about the NZRU sabotaging them by not allowing them to sign players who are contracted to other franchises already.



  • https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/300109840/super-rugby-aratipu-advised-against-sixth-kiwi-team-pasifika-doubts-persist

    However, sources have confirmed to Stuff that the Aratipu Report, led by Blues chairman Don Mackinnon, concluded that player depth would be a serious hurdle for a sixth New Zealand franchise.

    Those who took part in the report already believe the current Super Rugby franchises are struggling to find adequate replacements when injuries test their depth, making it unlikely that a new Kiwi franchise could find a squad of 38 Super Rugby-quality players without cannibalising the Blues, Crusaders, Chiefs, Hurricanes and Highlanders.

    Stuff understands that Sky would only support a sixth team if it is competitive from the outset, and the success of Super Rugby Aotearoa encouraged the broadcaster to pivot away from quantity towards quality, with the emphasis on fan engagement.

    Sources have also told Stuff that an underplayed part of the Aratipu Report was its focus on the franchise/club calendar as a whole, with serious thought going into a season that would eventually allow the top New Zealand sides to compete against teams such as Owen Farrell’s Saracens or heavyweight Irish province Leinster.

    Those ambitions have not been shelved, despite the ravages of Covid-19, and there is genuine and ongoing interest in both hemispheres at club/franchise level about making those clashes happen, even if they are not annual fixtures.


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