Coronavirus - UK
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I was being sarcastic
Wasn't too sure...
Agree with your point though - think we are now reaching the stage where Covid hospitalisation & deaths are lower than Flu and will be acceptable/manageable.
I just don’t buy flu disappeared from the UK as soon as Covid hit our shores.
Inconceivable
You've lost me a bit there. Mike.
Just as we live with Flu, vaccinate for it and see deaths as inevitable and acceptable, I think we may be reaching the same point for Covid in the UK.
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@victor-meldrew
some more information related, not to the manufacture but to the testing constraints:It’s this necessary but long-term process that some people – many of them politicians – fail to understand about the coronavirus vaccine trials. You can’t throw money at the problem and hope results happen faster. While the Oxford vaccine trial has already shown promising safety results, and the tantalising possibility of a protective immune response, it was only in 1,000 people (edit, 22 July 2020). To roll out a vaccine to millions (or the whole world), you need a level of confidence that can only come with patience and more data.
The looming decisions for the medicine approval bodies around the world will come with heavy responsibilities. As Sir John Bell, professor of medicine at Oxford University, told the BBC Today programme on 21 July, we don’t have the luxury of waiting for the definitive evidence that we’d normally have from a clinical trial. “The toughest job of anybody is the regulator, who has to make the call on whether it is safe and effective to roll out to the public. I would not want that job,” he said. “It’s a really hard call. If they say yes, there will suddenly be a queue of three-and-a-half billion people asking for a vaccine.”
Public health officials will remember well the times that vaccine rollouts went wrong. In 1976, fears of a swine flu outbreak led the US government to accelerate vaccine development and inoculate tens of millions of Americans. The feared pandemic never arrived, but by some estimates, around 30 people died due to adverse vaccine reactions.
The VAERS database compiled in the USA (The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) latest data shows 5078 deaths recorded in the USA. I'm led to believe by Dr Robert Malone who patented mRNA vaccine technology in 1989 the previous death number for a recall was 25-50 deaths.
My point: Keep an eye on your health up to 30 days after vaccination and people are right to consider the vaccine with the same serious caution as the virus. Neither have given us the normal luxuryof time and testing. Only time will tell.
but people know that so no pearl of wisdom here
https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8;jsessionid=FF63B422B9C8FE1CE3E8E1E0EE49 (database link showing vaccines and deaths may have expired)
VAERS data in CDC WONDER are updated every Friday. Hence, results for the same query can change from week to week.
Message These results are for 4,692 total events.
Vaccine
Results are sorted in by-variable orderCOVID19 (COVID19 (JANSSEN)) (1203) 417
COVID19 (COVID19 (MODERNA)) (1201) 2,398
COVID19 (COVID19 (PFIZER-BIONTECH)) (1200) 2,238
COVID19 (COVID19 (UNKNOWN)) (1202) 25
Total 5,078
Note: Submitting a report to VAERS does not mean that healthcare personnel or the vaccine caused or contributed to the adverse event (possible side effect).By way of a comparison VAERS data for all Influenza vaccines over the 10 year period from 2009 to 2019 stood at 381 deaths in total
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I was being sarcastic
Wasn't too sure...
Agree with your point though - think we are now reaching the stage where Covid hospitalisation & deaths are lower than Flu and will be acceptable/manageable.
I just don’t buy flu disappeared from the UK as soon as Covid hit our shores.
Inconceivable
You've lost me a bit there. Mike.
Just as we live with Flu, vaccinate for it and see deaths as inevitable and acceptable, I think we may be reaching the same point for Covid in the UK.
That’s great and LONG overdue
I just don’t believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I just don’t believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
I wouldn't have a clue, but it's possible there's been way less due to social distancing/lockdown - or Covid has got there first.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I just don’t believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
I wouldn't have a clue, but it's possible there's been way less due to social distancing/lockdown - or Covid has got there first.
Everything, and I mean everything, has been lumped under the Covid umbrella
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I just don’t believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
I wouldn't have a clue, but it's possible there's been way less due to social distancing/lockdown - or Covid has got there first.
Everything, and I mean everything, has been lumped under the Covid umbrella
A lot of truth in that. If Mrs M's father had caught Covid when dying of terminal cancer, it would have been put down to Covid.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I just don’t believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
I wouldn't have a clue, but it's possible there's been way less due to social distancing/lockdown - or Covid has got there first.
Everything, and I mean everything, has been lumped under the Covid umbrella
A lot of truth in that. If Mrs M's father had caught Covid when dying of terminal cancer, it would have been put down to Covid.
In that sort of situation I’m thinking it would be a multiple cause death certificate, and the death also included in the Covid stats?
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@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I just don’t believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
I wouldn't have a clue, but it's possible there's been way less due to social distancing/lockdown - or Covid has got there first.
Everything, and I mean everything, has been lumped under the Covid umbrella
A lot of truth in that. If Mrs M's father had caught Covid when dying of terminal cancer, it would have been put down to Covid.
In that sort of situation I’m thinking it would be a multiple cause death certificate, and the death also included in the Covid stats?
Pretty much. We were told If within 28 days of a positive test, it went in the Covid Stats. Death Certificate would state cancer as cause of death only.
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In the UK the death certificate would usually show all contributing factors in descending (I think) order. Likely in Vic’s MIL case Covid would not be a contributing factor. But… still goes in the stats as a Covid death. If you test positive and get run over by a bus outside the test centre, you’re in the stats as a Covid death. 🤷
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@catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
If you test positive and get run over by a bus outside the test centre, you’re in the stats as a Covid death.
Is that actually true though mate? Surely one of those myths that people like me use to mock and deride the response.
Genuine question, as that'll be the final straw that makes me go nuclear! 🙂
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
Is that actually true though mate? Surely one of those myths that people like me use to mock and deride the response.
It was happening until August/Sept of last year IIRC and they revised down the stats afterwards. Came to light when someone who had Covid 3 months earlier was killed in a car accident, but Covid put as a cause of death on the death certificate.
A review of how deaths from coronavirus are counted in England has reduced the UK death toll by more than 5,000, to 41,329, the government has announced. The recalculation is based on a new definition of who has died from Covid. Previously, people in England who died at any point following a positive test, regardless of cause, were counted in the figures. But there will now be a cut-off of 28 days, providing a more accurate picture of the epidemic.
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@victor-meldrew but a car accident death within 28 days is still a covid death? What about a suicide? Or a murder? (I can feel my blood pressure rising....🙂).
I don't expect you to look that up mate. I got a big night in front of the tele, best to leave it there😁
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@catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
In the UK the death certificate would usually show all contributing factors in descending (I think) order. Likely in Vic’s MIL case Covid would not be a contributing factor. But… still goes in the stats as a Covid death. If you test positive and get run over by a bus outside the test centre, you’re in the stats as a Covid death. 🤷
Yep. Which is why international comparisons are difficult and the most accurate measure is excess death rates. And to be fair to the Government, that's been their position almost from day 1
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
but a car accident death within 28 days is still a covid death? What about a suicide? Or a murder?
It goes in the Covid deaths total, but not on the Death Certificate.
I got a big night in front of the tele, best to leave it there
Mapping out my route for a 150 mile ride on the Honda..
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew but a car accident death within 28 days is still a covid death? What about a suicide? Or a murder? (I can feel my blood pressure rising....🙂).
I don't expect you to look that up mate. I got a big night in front of the tele, best to leave it there😁
I think you are getting yourself worked up over not much here. Excess deaths are unequivocal proof that Covid is taking people early. The numbers are broadly in line, so its' just reality. How much life people are losing is a fair question, as the vast majority of deaths are elderly, ill & obese.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew but a car accident death within 28 days is still a covid death? What about a suicide? Or a murder? (I can feel my blood pressure rising....🙂).
I don't expect you to look that up mate. I got a big night in front of the tele, best to leave it there😁
I think you are getting yourself worked up over not much here. Excess deaths are unequivocal proof that Covid is taking people early. The numbers are broadly in line, so its' just reality. How much life people are losing is a fair question, as the vast majority of deaths are elderly, ill & obese.
Spot on. The trouble comes when the media, conspiracy theorists, politicians and the like concentrate on the less relevant but easier to consume figures.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
Mapping out my route for a 150 mile ride on the Honda..
That's the trick mate!👍
Lots of corners and sweeping scenery!😁
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew but a car accident death within 28 days is still a covid death? What about a suicide? Or a murder? (I can feel my blood pressure rising....🙂).
I don't expect you to look that up mate. I got a big night in front of the tele, best to leave it there😁
I think you are getting yourself worked up over not much here. Excess deaths are unequivocal proof that Covid is taking people early. The numbers are broadly in line, so its' just reality. How much life people are losing is a fair question, as the vast majority of deaths are elderly, ill & obese.
Thanks doctor. I thought the emojis might be a clue. Cricket is far more important
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew but a car accident death within 28 days is still a covid death? What about a suicide? Or a murder? (I can feel my blood pressure rising....🙂).
I don't expect you to look that up mate. I got a big night in front of the tele, best to leave it there😁
I think you are getting yourself worked up over not much here. Excess deaths are unequivocal proof that Covid is taking people early. The numbers are broadly in line, so its' just reality. How much life people are losing is a fair question, as the vast majority of deaths are elderly, ill & obese.
Not today but mate I will be asking you to explain that, honestly I don't understand the link you described. But I do have a cunning plan. I call it an "excess death" vaccine.😂
Seriously, I'd like some explanation of what you raised, at a later date. Cheers rage.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew but a car accident death within 28 days is still a covid death? What about a suicide? Or a murder? (I can feel my blood pressure rising....🙂).
I don't expect you to look that up mate. I got a big night in front of the tele, best to leave it there😁
I think you are getting yourself worked up over not much here. Excess deaths are unequivocal proof that Covid is taking people early. The numbers are broadly in line, so its' just reality. How much life people are losing is a fair question, as the vast majority of deaths are elderly, ill & obese.
I don't know, mate. Have you ruled out a spate of people being hit by buses? The same group of people would be slower to get out of the way