Lying on your resume
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We recently hired someone who we thought would be a great addition to our team.
Unfortunately, we have had to let this person go, this week. They were here for just over a month and it was apparent they were not up to this task from the get-go.
We use basic office programs, Excel, Office, etc. Then we have a custom-built program for estimating and CAD. There was no expectation for this person to know how to use the custom system right away but they could't even send a simple email. I wish I was joking and you read right. They do not know how to send emails. We kept getting post-it notes left on our keyboards and screens. It got annoying after 3 days when finally I just said "hey mate, post-it notes can be misplaced. Can you please just flick us an email?". There was a bit of nervy reaction to that. Then what seemed like an hour passed. They came into my office to check if I had received an email they'd sent me. No email. I went back to their PC and had a quick look to see if they had been set up in office. There it was, a word document. They had written me a note in word and were trying to share it.
I'm not high up in my company so I tend to keep my head down. I decided to watch from a distance with old mate and see where this went.
At the end of their first week, we needed some plans upscaled. I heard one of the others ask old mate to do it. 30min later I went to the printer to get something and there they were. Sweating like a sweaty thing. No idea what to do. I asked what was needed to be done and took over. Showed them, then got them to do it so it would be a learned task, etc. One very nervous but relieved thank you later and I hoped that was going to be the end of that. Onward and upward. It was not the case...
On Friday last week, this person bit off more than they could lie about chewing and attempted to scan plans into the custom program. They actually got about 4 out of 6 steps correct. Only the last 2 caught them out and majorly. They added the plans to an existing job instead of a new one. It was a large commercial job, national roll-out, way out of my league, and not on the same planet as this person. Months of work, estimates, amended plans, and quotes. When they added their plan they, for whatever reason, overwrote everything that was existing. I don't need to explain what that means.
There were grumblings from other staff to management that this person didn't have a fucking clue about computers. It came to a head on Saturday. They were called in to go over some of the attributes they claimed to have in their resume and none of it was true. I was kind of astounded they got past the interview process.
We all embellish but have any of you put skills in your CV you flat out don't have?? I mean this was a position for a "project manager & estimator - must have high-level computer skills and knowledge of CAD".
Note: this person was much older than usual and had actual real experience as a job site project manager. They just didn't have any office experience at all. All phone and written notes.
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@raznomore said in Lying on your resume:
We recently hired someone who we thought would be a great addition to our team.
Unfortunately, we have had to let this person go, this week. They were here for just over a month and it was apparent they were not up to this task from the get-go.
We use basic office programs, Excel, Office, etc. Then we have a custom-built program for estimating and CAD. There was no expectation for this person to know how to use the custom system right away but they could't even send a simple email. I wish I was joking and you read right. They do not know how to send emails. We kept getting post-it notes left on our keyboards and screens. It got annoying after 3 days when finally I just said "hey mate, post-it notes can be misplaced. Can you please just flick us an email?". There was a bit of nervy reaction to that. Then what seemed like an hour passed. They came into my office to check if I had received an email they'd sent me. No email. I went back to their PC and had a quick look to see if they had been set up in office. There is was a word document. They had written me a note in word and were trying to share it. I'm not high up in my company so I tend to keep my head down. I decided to watch from a distance with old mate and see where this went.
At the end of their first week, we needed some plans upscaled. I heard one of the others ask old mate to do it. 30min later I went to the printer to get something and there they were. Sweating like a sweaty thing. No idea what to do. I asked what was needed to be done and took over. Showed them, then got them to do it so it would be a learned task, etc. One very nervous but relieved thank you later and I hoped that was going to be the end of that. Onward and upward. It was not the case...
On Friday last week, this person bit off more than they could lie about chewing and attempted to scan plans into the custom program. They actually got about 4 out of 6 steps correct. Only the last 2 caught them out and majorly. They added the plans to an existing job instead of a new one. It was a large commercial job, national roll-out, way out of my league, and not on the same planet as this person. Months of work, estimates, amended plans, and quotes. When they added their plan they, for whatever reason, overwrote everything that was existing. I don't need to explain what that means.
There were grumblings from other staff to management that this person didn't have a fucking clue about computers. It came to a head on Saturday. They were called into to go over some of the attributes they claimed to have in their resume and none of it was true. I was kind of astounded they got past the interview process.
We all embellish but have any of you put skills in your CV you flat out don't have?? I mean this was a position for a "project manager & estimator - must have high-level computer skills and knowledge of CAD".
Note: this person was much older than usual and had actual real experience as a job site project manager. They just didn't have any office experience at all. All phone and written notes.
I’d be unemployed if I didn’t follow some of these handy tips......
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@raznomore said in Lying on your resume:
I was kind of astounded they got past the interview process.
On a serious note, this. WTF was the management doing to let this guy slip thru?
On a non-serious note....
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I've never lied but I know our upper management employed an older lady who said she had experience of every job going under the sun, said she understood the clinical system's reporting functions, knew how to design alerts etc I think she had enough knowledge of them but had never done it, and everytime she was asked to do something she would come over and ask me to "remind her". Very annoying.
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I hate job-hunting, actually, no, I hate being interviewed for a job, that part sucks, so nerve racking, depending on the interviewers can also be rather intimidating.
I think your cover letter is the most important part these days, if it isnt up to it, they probably wont bother looking at your CV.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Lying on your resume:
@raznomore said in Lying on your resume:
I was kind of astounded they got past the interview process.
On a serious note, this. WTF was the management doing to let this guy slip thru?
On a non-serious note....
i don't think you could ever blame management for letting someone who can't email get through.. I mean jesus if you've got to ask a question for every 'basic' thing around using a computer it would be a long interview! You've got to make some assumptions - especially around the low level stuff.
sounds like as an older experienced person they got through cause they knew what they were talking about.. just couldn't use a computer!
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Lying on your resume:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Lying on your resume:
@raznomore said in Lying on your resume:
I was kind of astounded they got past the interview process.
On a serious note, this. WTF was the management doing to let this guy slip thru?
On a non-serious note....
i don't think you could ever blame management for letting someone who can't email get through.. I mean jesus if you've got to ask a question for every 'basic' thing around using a computer it would be a long interview! You've got to make some assumptions - especially around the low level stuff.
sounds like as an older experienced person they got through cause they knew what they were talking about.. just couldn't use a computer!
Yeah that was my thoughts too.
I'm intrigued as to how they applied for the job though.
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@Bones thier 10 year old Grand Kid...
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@taniwharugby said in Lying on your resume:
@Bones thier 10 year old Grand Kid...
Mate I had no idea you're a grandfather! Sorry to hear about your job.
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@Bones well my eldest is more than old enough to have a kid of his own, he and his g/f dont seem keen to have kids yet, so I'm happy about that.
I didnt need to lie on my CV, and even if I did, I suck at interviewing so would get found out pretty quick!
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@taniwharugby said in Lying on your resume:
I suck at interviewing
Hah yeah this! Thankfully I've pretty much only had a couple of proper ones.
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@Bones haha yeah, think it was my 3rd interview after 10 years in the same job, being interviewed by 3 females, one of whom was hawt AF, another pretty tidy and the 3rd I knew prior to applying, so you'd think that'd make it easier...
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This is exactly what the probation period is for.
I have had 2 jobs in my professional life, and got this job as kuch through playing footy with the owners sons than anything.
I hire a lot of people though and naturally assume the CV is full of.made up or embellished stuff
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@MN5 said in Lying on your resume:
No wonder he's unemployed the dumb fluffybunny can't even count to 3
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@mariner4life said in Lying on your resume:
@MN5 said in Lying on your resume:
No wonder he's unemployed the dumb fluffybunny can't even count to 3
Obviously not that kind of girl
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was going to reply to the original question...but see i'm too late
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@WillieTheWaiter said in Lying on your resume:
i don't think you could ever blame management for letting someone who can't email get through.. I mean jesus if you've got to ask a question for every 'basic' thing around using a computer it would be a long interview!
Fair point. But at the end of the day it's caused a major fuckup because someone didn't check the basic basics. IMHO that's a management issue.
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@mariner4life said in Lying on your resume:
This is exactly what the probation period is for.
I have had 2 jobs in my professional life, and got this job as kuch through playing footy with the owners sons than anything.
I hire a lot of people though and naturally assume the CV is full of.made up or embellished stuff
Got most of my work thru contacts and former clients.
Never embellished my CV as it often went back to people I had worked for, though I did put more emphasis on certain skills as necessary
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@raznomore sounds like a Seinfeld episode
Never recruited someone that flat out lied about having some technical skills and didn’t have it. Plenty have embellished on ‘soft skills’ like work well in teams, only to find out they have no social skills and a stalker...
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Never lied. Too easy to get caught out on IT issues, particularly when they have a practical aspect to the interview.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Lying on your resume:
Never embellished my CV as it often went back to people I had worked for, though I did put more emphasis on certain skills as necessary
Likewise - I don't lie or embellish, but do emphasise what I think are relevant skills.
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He was told about the position by a client we work with and walked in off the street. Came back for a second interview and went very well. He also worked on multi site roll outs so he appeared legit.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Lying on your resume:
@raznomore sounds like a Seinfeld episode
Never recruited someone that flat out lied about having some technical skills and didn’t have it. Plenty have embellished on ‘soft skills’ like work well in teams, only to find out they have no social skills and a stalker...
And yet, here I am, still employed.
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@raznomore said in Lying on your resume:
We all embellish but have any of you put skills in your CV you flat out don't have?? I mean this was a position for a "project manager & estimator - must have high-level computer skills and knowledge of CAD".
Note: this person was much older than usual and had actual real experience as a job site project manager. They just didn't have any office experience at all. All phone and written notes.To be fair to all involved, knowledge of computers in a work setting is pretty much a given. You'd expect anyone who has been in the workforce for the last 30 years to have mastered email and saving documents.
I've certainly presented experience and skill set in the most favourable light if I thought they were transferable. Bullshitting is a sure path to being found out and is unforgivable, whereas being honest about your experience and propensity to master new skills goes a long way.
Unfortunately I work in an industry where actually having qualifications does not in any way related to competence or experience. Carefully constructed questions at interview time sort the wheat from the chaff. And unless I know their referees, I never call them.
And never trust LinkedIn.
On Friday last week, this person bit off more than they could lie about chewing and attempted to scan plans into the custom program. They actually got about 4 out of 6 steps correct. Only the last 2 caught them out and majorly. They added the plans to an existing job instead of a new one. It was a large commercial job, national roll-out, way out of my league, and not on the same planet as this person. Months of work, estimates, amended plans, and quotes. When they added their plan they, for whatever reason, overwrote everything that was existing. I don't need to explain what that means.
Unfortunately I've seen this in too many companies and my advice is always the same; if your document system doesn't do versioning, then you aren't interested in keeping your documents.
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I've been caught out like @raznomore 's company. Employed someone in customer service who had zero computer skills.
My interview questions are more like "Sales have promised the customer a horse but we do not supply horses only camels. We cannot manufacture a horse. How do you deal with the irate customer?" not "Do you know how to turn on a computer?" Now everyone has to sit a test.
People will lie about anything. We police vet everyone pre-employment and explain this in advance. To date the "winner" was a guy who had 8 pages of convictions including both multiple violence and theft, fraud and theft as a servant. I mean why did he bother.
This thread has prompted me to add another question to our standard interview - "How many work hours a day do you spend chatting to
Polish chicksfat old geezers on the internet?" -
CVs only work on key word searches by recruitment agencies these days. Then they check the cover letter to see if you look to be on the same page as them or to make a snap judgement on which pile to throw you in. They are only looking for things they can cut and paste in a precis to show a client and let them pick who they want to see.
I have just been through almost a year of job searching and man it is frustrating. JDs that are poorly written or emphasise skills that match you closely only to be told that you don't have the skillset they are after once you have addressed all key requirements. Tyre kicking ads that run you through the whole process only to find out they were using you to justify an internal appointment. Places that never get back to you even though their JD is after a unique combination of skills that you have and know that not many others do. I have even been told that the hassle of getting references from overseas puts you in the 'too hard' pile. The whole process comes down to luck and timing and whether you fit the imagined vision of those that interview you.
I have had interviews where it became obvious that the 'team' was all of a similar (younger) age and although they can't age discriminate, you fall into a 'not a good fit' excuse.
The worst one (and this was the real killer for me given that a lot of work in Welly at the moment is in the public sector) is that you can see the fear in the eyes of those with a cushy job if you demonstrate an ability to improve things in places you work. The fear of change or being shown up as lazy.
The stupid thing is though that when I eventually got work as a contract on nearly twice the rate that others were offering but not giving, I simply had a 20 minute conversation over a coffee in an introduction meeting. No referee checking, no long winded multiple interviews with inane questions.
Rant over. -
@dogmeat said in Lying on your resume:
This thread has prompted me to add another question to our standard interview - "How many work hours a day do you spend chatting to Polish chicks fat old geezers on the internet?"
I don't care what people do during the day as long as their work gets done. For the same reason I don't subscribe to the concept of presenteeism. It's amazing how busy unproductive people can look. I worked with one bloke who everyone thought was a real go-getter. He would walk furiously from one meeting to the next carrying a noteboook. Never did anything productive.
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@antipodean I don't remember working with you?
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@antipodean said in Lying on your resume:
@dogmeat said in Lying on your resume:
This thread has prompted me to add another question to our standard interview - "How many work hours a day do you spend chatting to Polish chicks fat old geezers on the internet?"
I don't care what people do during the day as long as their work gets done. For the same reason I don't subscribe to the concept of presenteeism. It's amazing how busy unproductive people can look. I worked with one bloke who everyone thought was a real go-getter. He would walk furiously from one meeting to the next carrying a noteboook. Never did anything productive.
Did you work with me??
@Crucial That fear thing you speak of is weird. I get excited to hear new ideas from interviewees who really know nothing about the work place I'm interviewing them for. In the past ten years we have had one guy actually do as he said and streamlined a lot of stuff for us. All the rest were all talk, no pork.
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@dogmeat said in Lying on your resume:
@antipodean I don't remember working with you?
Probably because I don't attend meetings.
If I receive an invite and there's no agenda, decline. If it doesn't relate to my area of expertise/ responsibility. Decline.
Going to meetings prevents me from doing meaningful work, like arguing on the internet.
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@dogmeat said in Lying on your resume:
@antipodean I don't remember working with you?
Ahhh snap! Now I just look more like a sheep.
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@Crucial Ms DM works in recruitment basically forced to after being made redundant and unable to find anything in her preferred line.
She sees this every day. Now knows why she couldn't get a job - ageism. So many companies flat out state their bigotry and prejudices. Racial, gender, age (no one over 40)
You can add to the key word searches the Christian names. Debbie, Mary, Elizabeth, John, David etc - Straight into the discard pile...
She hates it
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Haven’t had to rely on a a CV since leaving school, that was back when horses still pulled carriages..
Biggest issue today must be those who share every seedy element in their life via social media without realising their potential future employer will likely do a search via FB, Twitter etc.
Maybe sharing those semi topless pics while smoking from a bong alongside your mate doing the Nazi signal wasn’t such a good idea when you applied to work at some swish Law firm.. or maybe it will help get the job??.. -
@Crucial said in Lying on your resume:
CVs only work on key word searches by recruitment agencies these days. Then they check the cover letter to see if you look to be on the same page as them or to make a snap judgement on which pile to throw you in. They are only looking for things they can cut and paste in a precis to show a client and let them pick who they want to see.
I have just been throw almost a year of job searching and man it is frustrating. JDs that are poorly written or emphasise skills that match you closely only to be told that you don't have the skillset they are after once you have addressed all key requirements. Tyre kicking ads that run you through the whole process only to find out they were using you to justify an internal appointment. Places that never get back to you even though their JD is after a unique combination of skills that you have and know that not many others do. I have even been told that the hassle of getting references from overseas puts you in the 'too hard' pile. The whole process comes down to luck and timing and whether you fit the imagined vision of those that interview you.
I have had interviews where it became obvious that the 'team' was all of a similar (younger) age and although they can't age discriminate, you fall into a 'not a good fit' excuse.
The worst one (and this was the real killer for me given that a lot of work in Welly at the moment is in the public sector) is that you can see the fear in the eyes of those with a cushy job if you demonstrate an ability to improve things in places you work. The fear of change or being shown up as lazy.
The stupid thing is though that when I eventually got work as a contract on nearly twice the rate that others were offering but not giving, I simply had a 20 minute conversation over a coffee in an introduction meeting. No referee checking, no long winded multiple interviews with inane questions.
Rant over.I’m extremely happy where I am in terms of work, pay and multiple perks but it hasn’t come easy. I remember hating how recruiters would place a wanky ad and refer to ‘my client’.....it’s a colossal time waster especially when I found out the client in question was someone I worked for and hated many years back.
I’ve also been through the whole process, multiple interviews etc only to lose out to ‘someone internally’ too. There should be laws against that.
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Interviewed someone once, a graduate with a few years experience.
Interview wasn't going great, but then I started asking questions about the design for a project example listed on the CV. The bloke talked about the basics. Asked about the analysis WRITTEN ON THE CV and got 'oh, sorry I can't remember much about that'. Huh. Dug a bit more 'I wasn't really involved, that was done by someone else'.
Short interview.
But honestly, why the hell would you list a skill example on a CV if you can't even bullshit about it? Just bizarre.
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@Hooroo said in Lying on your resume:
@antipodean said in Lying on your resume:
@dogmeat said in Lying on your resume:
This thread has prompted me to add another question to our standard interview - "How many work hours a day do you spend chatting to Polish chicks fat old geezers on the internet?"
I don't care what people do during the day as long as their work gets done. For the same reason I don't subscribe to the concept of presenteeism. It's amazing how busy unproductive people can look. I worked with one bloke who everyone thought was a real go-getter. He would walk furiously from one meeting to the next carrying a noteboook. Never did anything productive.
Did you work with me??
@Crucial That fear thing you speak of is weird. I get excited to hear new ideas from interviewees who really know nothing about the work place I'm interviewing them for. In the past ten years we have had one guy actually do as he said and streamlined a lot of stuff for us. All the rest were all talk, no pork.
I put it down to public service. If I talk about instilling processes and tools that were my experience gained say 5 years ago in the private sector the interviewers would often see their own inadequacies being potentially shown up.
I have even had a consulting company that was looking to place me actually advise me to dial back on what I can offer due to it being too much for the client to envision. -
@antipodean said in Lying on your resume:
I don't care what people do during the day as long as their work gets done. For the same reason I don't subscribe to the concept of presenteeism. It's amazing how busy unproductive people can look. I worked with one bloke who everyone thought was a real go-getter. He would walk furiously from one meeting to the next carrying a noteboook. Never did anything productive.
@Crucial said in Lying on your resume:
I put it down to public service. If I talk about instilling processes and tools that were my experience gained say 5 years ago in the private sector the interviewers would often see their own inadequacies being potentially shown up.
I have even had a consulting company that was looking to place me actually advise me to dial back on what I can offer due to it being too much for the client to envision.Have seen it happen in corporate but in a reverse sense: a high functioning team requires new leader due to unforeseen circumstances removing old leader from position. New person arrives, wants to "shake things up" because nobody in the history of management* ever gets into the captain's chair and says "This all appears to be working nicely. Carry on"
Nup. Slash and burn, make a bunch of noise, collect your bonuses and fuck off after 2 years. Let the people who actually give a shit clean up the mess.
It particularly shits me when they don't have any technical history and won't listen to the SMEs.
*Acknowledging that management and leadership are two entirely separate beasts.
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@antipodean said in Lying on your resume:
Unfortunately I've seen this in too many companies and my advice is always the same; if your document system doesn't do versioning, then you aren't interested in keeping your documents.
Yeah sorry, I left that a little open-ended. We were lucky and most of it was recoverable.
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@NTA said in Lying on your resume:
@antipodean said in Lying on your resume:
I don't care what people do during the day as long as their work gets done. For the same reason I don't subscribe to the concept of presenteeism. It's amazing how busy unproductive people can look. I worked with one bloke who everyone thought was a real go-getter. He would walk furiously from one meeting to the next carrying a noteboook. Never did anything productive.
@Crucial said in Lying on your resume:
I put it down to public service. If I talk about instilling processes and tools that were my experience gained say 5 years ago in the private sector the interviewers would often see their own inadequacies being potentially shown up.
I have even had a consulting company that was looking to place me actually advise me to dial back on what I can offer due to it being too much for the client to envision.Have seen it happen in corporate but in a reverse sense: a high functioning team requires new leader due to unforeseen circumstances removing old leader from position. New person arrives, wants to "shake things up" because nobody in the history of management* ever gets into the captain's chair and says "This all appears to be working nicely. Carry on"
Nup. Slash and burn, make a bunch of noise, collect your bonuses and fuck off after 2 years. Let the people who actually give a shit clean up the mess.
It particularly shits me when they don't have any technical history and won't listen to the SMEs.
*Acknowledging that management and leadership are two entirely separate beasts.
I've experienced that as well.
In my situation though it was more a case of how I could bring the skills to improve the maturity of what was in place, which was what they were asking for.
The vision/ strategy of the management and that of the middle line doing the interviewing was shown as a massive gap.
