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    Future of The Rugby Championship

    Sports Talk
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    • Rapido
      Rapido last edited by

      How do you guys reckon this will go in future, politically?

      For the record I am for the TRC continuing, but was happy to see demise of the full Southern Hemisphere Rugby Super Rugby.

      But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

      Do you think SARU / Boks not turning up this year – while partly about player welfare was also partly political? If so, they were prepared to cut their own nose to spite their face. Which would be a worrying sign of where the relationship is.

      Unfortunately for UAR, they are currently just flotsam in a SANZAAR rough sea.

      Hooroo antipodean 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Hooroo
        Hooroo @Rapido last edited by

        @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

        How do you guys reckon this will go in future, politically?

        For the record I am for the TRC continuing, but was happy to see demise of the full Southern Hemisphere Rugby Super Rugby.

        But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

        Do you think SARU / Boks not turning up this year – while partly about player welfare was also partly political? If so, they were prepared to cut their own nose to spite their face. Which would be a worrying sign of where the relationship is.

        Unfortunately for UAR, they are currently just flotsam in a SANZAAR rough sea.

        UAR?

        I keep thinking that I am happy about change but then all the changes I think of make me unhappy. If there is no World rugby season then the best for us is to keep playing SA and Aussie as there is often some remarkable rugby

        Snowy 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Rapido
          Rapido last edited by

          BTW. I'm taking long term. 2022 and beyond.
          Not just next year whcih may still be disrupted. Either by covid still or by unions scrambling to catch up with some money making.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Snowy
            Snowy @Hooroo last edited by

            @Hooroo said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

            UAR?

            In english - Union of Argentinian Rugby.

            Hooroo 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • Hooroo
              Hooroo @Snowy last edited by

              @Snowy said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

              @Hooroo said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

              UAR?

              In english - Union of Argentinian Rugby.

              Cheers! Couldn't get past Uruguay

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
              • antipodean
                antipodean @Rapido last edited by

                @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

                That bitterness would be unfounded. What were RA and NZR supposed to do, not play rugby and wait until South Africa had got on top of covid-19 sufficiently so teams could travel?

                Do you think SARU / Boks not turning up this year – while partly about player welfare was also partly political? If so, they were prepared to cut their own nose to spite their face. Which would be a worrying sign of where the relationship is.

                I think SARUs problems are closer to home and that hasn't really changed in decades. While they're still beholden to a racist regime, that regime is now corrupt and incompetent.

                Rapido 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • Rapido
                  Rapido last edited by

                  I get the feeling SARU want to join Europe at all pro levels.

                  Weekly pro level. Which they are already doing with expanded Pro-14.
                  European Champions Cup level.
                  International level. Expanded 6 Nations.

                  From their POV, that makes commercial sense.

                  I have my doubts about Pro 14, And inter-continental clubs comps.
                  But. If they are included in (European) Champions Cup , then I think it will make the Pro no longer 14 viable. If they are excluded then I think that expansion fails eventually. Their fate will depend ion whether English and French clubs want them in the tent.

                  For international level. They will be dependent on whether 6 Nations want them in. I have my doubts. Tradition, travel and fitting it in the calendar. But need for money after covid disruption may have the unions prepared to shake up the status quo.

                  Bovidae 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Rapido
                    Rapido @antipodean last edited by Rapido

                    @antipodean said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                    @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                    But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

                    That bitterness would be unfounded. What were RA and NZR supposed to do, not play rugby and wait until South Africa had got on top of covid-19 sufficiently so teams could travel?

                    It's not the plans for 2020 or even 2021 that breaks the alliance and damages the relationships. It's NZRUs almost immediate (and unliateral) decision to permanently end the Super comp just a few months into the pandemic.

                    Not that it isn't something SARU themselves have threatened every TV Rights renewal.

                    antipodean 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • Machpants
                      Machpants last edited by

                      Playing the ABs is pretty huge, so I think we’ll see a seperation of SR and RC, and some way of having an international season to enable it. Supposed to be announced this or next month? Can’t remember.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • mariner4life
                        mariner4life last edited by

                        i've said it over and over, i don't envy the people who try to put SH rugby together. The tyranny of distance is a killer. we're basically trying to play around half the world. Playing just inside Australia you cover more ground than all of Europe pretty much, before having to cross two fucking oceans.

                        Add in each country having very different needs, and it's a shitfight from ball 1.

                        I'll watch whatever. And i like a home and away. TO my eyes there wasn't much wrong with the old format, except too many fucking bledisloes.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                        • Bovidae
                          Bovidae @Rapido last edited by Bovidae

                          @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                          For international level. They will be dependent on whether 6 Nations want them in. I have my doubts. Tradition, travel and fitting it in the calendar.

                          Yeah, I don't think the 6N will expand. It took 60 years before Italy joined and I don't see the current 6 countries wanting an odd number of teams in the competition.

                          I hope the RC continues with SA involved because there is a tradition to have tests between NZ and SA. However, I'm not expecting the SA teams to be part of any SR competition in the future.

                          Rapido 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • antipodean
                            antipodean @Rapido last edited by antipodean

                            @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                            @antipodean said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                            @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                            But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

                            That bitterness would be unfounded. What were RA and NZR supposed to do, not play rugby and wait until South Africa had got on top of covid-19 sufficiently so teams could travel?

                            It's not the plans for 2020 or even 2021 that breaks the alliance and damages the relationships. It's NZRUs almost immediate (and unliateral) decision to permanently end the Super comp just a few months into the pandemic.

                            Which if we're honest appears to be one of the few good things they've managed thus far.

                            Not that it isn't something SARU themselves have threatened every TV Rights renewal.

                            Exactly - they aren't some blushing bride here.

                            And I don't see how they can be accepted into Europe anyway - the calendar is already full.

                            Rapido 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • Rapido
                              Rapido @antipodean last edited by Rapido

                              @antipodean said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                              @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                              @antipodean said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                              @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                              But there is bitterness over in SARU at NZRU’s unilateral ending of SR and attempt at setting up Tran-Tasman comp on their own terms.

                              That bitterness would be unfounded. What were RA and NZR supposed to do, not play rugby and wait until South Africa had got on top of covid-19 sufficiently so teams could travel?

                              It's not the plans for 2020 or even 2021 that breaks the alliance and damages the relationships. It's NZRUs almost immediate (and unliateral) decision to permanently end the Super comp just a few months into the pandemic.

                              Which if we're honest appears to be one of the few good things they've managed thus far.

                              We're absolutely in the same camp on this one.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Rapido
                                Rapido @Bovidae last edited by

                                @Bovidae said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                For international level. They will be dependent on whether 6 Nations want them in. I have my doubts. Tradition, travel and fitting it in the calendar.

                                Yeah, I don't think the 6N will expand. It took 60 years before Italy joined and I don't see the current 6 countries wanting an odd number of teams in the competition.

                                I hope the RC continues with SA involved because there is a tradition to have tests between NZ and SA. However, I'm not expecting the SA teams to be part of any SR competition in the future.

                                This is where I am at.

                                I don't think 6 Nations will want to expand.

                                Apart from the geographic integrity of it currently.

                                Part of the attraction for expansion from 5 to 6 Nations was to remove the bye, I think.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Kiwiwomble
                                  Kiwiwomble last edited by

                                  im afraid if we dont keep SA in the RC then we'll end up playing aussie four times a year...which will kill a lot of interest

                                  another forum im on which has become more NH focused has a lot of chat about how Italy haven't really improved much since joining and they might just get swapped out for SA, no idea how the voting etc works for the 6N though

                                  Rapido 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Rapido
                                    Rapido @Kiwiwomble last edited by

                                    @Kiwiwomble said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                    another forum im on which has become more NH focused has a lot of chat about how Italy haven't really improved much since joining and they might just get swapped out for SA, no idea how the voting etc works for the 6N though

                                    Options would be

                                    Expand to 7. And use the 'fallow week'. Which would mean 7 tests in 7 weeks including 1 long haul for each team.

                                    Expand to 7, but extend tournament length. Need to negotiate with clubs.

                                    Stay at 6. But swap out Italy for Saf .
                                    Better rugby.
                                    Economically is replacing a 60 million country with declining population, but rich, but small rugby market. Replacing it with 55 million population country, rapidly growing, but poor, but richish rugby subpopulation, decent size rugby market by rugby standards

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • Bovidae
                                      Bovidae last edited by

                                      If you are a fan, would you prefer a weekend in Rome or a weekend in Johannesburg?

                                      Kiwiwomble Snowy 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • Kiwiwomble
                                        Kiwiwomble @Bovidae last edited by

                                        @Bovidae some have suggest they would play some home games in spain and home fans would be happy watch on tv

                                        Rapido 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Rapido
                                          Rapido @Kiwiwomble last edited by

                                          @Kiwiwomble said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                          @Bovidae some have suggest they would play some home games in spain and home fans would be happy watch on tv

                                          Well, that is pure nonsense I've seen sprouted for Argentina, Fiji, and now South Africa.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • chimoaus
                                            chimoaus last edited by

                                            I just hope a Nation's Championship can happen, would love to play the top teams every year. As for TRC, hopefully that can work within the Nation's Champ somehow. I can't see why we can't play SA, Aus, Arg twice and the other 6 teams once. Gives us 12 tests a year. Plus 1 vs a tier 2 before TRC.

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                            • Snowy
                                              Snowy @Bovidae last edited by

                                              @Bovidae said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                              If you are a fan, would you prefer a weekend in Rome or a weekend in Johannesburg?

                                              You're more likely to see a decent rugby match in Jo'burg.
                                              You're more likely to get absorbed by history in Rome.

                                              You're quite likely to get mugged in both of them.

                                              Catogrande 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • Rapido
                                                Rapido last edited by Rapido

                                                I don't think Italy can be replaced, though, anyway.

                                                Tournament is owned by Six Nations Rugby Ltd. Tried to google ownership structure but to no avail.

                                                But if single 6 Nations team could veto promotion-relegation in 6 Nations (and by proxy veto proposed Nations League), then assume same applies for kicking them out of a tournament they partly own for a shiny new play thing. Would need to be bought out.

                                                So, expansion is only realistic option.

                                                NTA antipodean 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                • D
                                                  Derpus last edited by Derpus

                                                  Apparently the Saffas are getting paid for the RC despite stitching us all up.

                                                  They can just fuck off, imo. Get japan in.

                                                  Snowy 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                  • NTA
                                                    NTA @Rapido last edited by

                                                    @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                                    So, expansion is only realistic option.

                                                    Add Saffas and Georgia and make it 8 Nations!

                                                    The Tractor Factory will provide a bit of competition for Italy and they're probably sick of kicking the shit out of Romania, Germany, and Spain in the 2nd Div comp anyway.

                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • Snowy
                                                      Snowy @Derpus last edited by

                                                      @Derpus said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                                      Apparently the Saffas are getting paid for the RC despite stitching us all up.

                                                      Players? SARU for TV rights? Whose getting paid for what?
                                                      Can't involve ticket sales surely.

                                                      D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                      • D
                                                        Derpus @Snowy last edited by Derpus

                                                        @Snowy https://www.rugbyrocks.com/sa-rugby-to-earn-r130-million-despite-boks-withdrawal

                                                        Don't know the specifics and it could be bullshit (looks pretty clickbaity). I've heard other anecdotal stuff that they'll still earn under the SANZAAR agreement.

                                                        But, yeah, apparently they won't take that much of a financial hit for not showing.

                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                        • Snowy
                                                          Snowy last edited by

                                                          Wouldn't surprise me.

                                                          "This is due to a collective bargaining agreement that guaranteed all four Sanzaar nations would benefit financially even if one was unable to attend the tournament for Covid-19 reasons."

                                                          If that is the actual agreement, firstly, they were all idiots to agree to that - show up or don't get paid.
                                                          Secondly "unable to attend" - really -"unable"? They might reconsider that if they weren't getting the cash anyway. No wonder relations are so strained between them all.

                                                          Hopefully it is bullshit as it makes no sense.

                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                          • antipodean
                                                            antipodean @Rapido last edited by

                                                            @Rapido said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                                            I don't think Italy can be replaced, though, anyway.

                                                            Tournament is owned by Six Nations Rugby Ltd. Tried to google ownership structure but to no vail.

                                                            But if single 6 Nations team could veto promotion-relegation in 6 Nations (and by proxy veto proposed Nations League), then assume same applies for kicking them out of a tournament they partly own for a shiny new play thing. Would need to be bought out.

                                                            So, expansion is only realistic option.

                                                            If you're prepared to pay they're available https://search.cro.ie/company/ListSubDocs.aspx?id=358420&type=C

                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                            • KiwiMurph
                                                              KiwiMurph last edited by

                                                              Tim 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 10
                                                              • Tim
                                                                Tim @KiwiMurph last edited by

                                                                @KiwiMurph NICE

                                                                Hooroo 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                • Hooroo
                                                                  Hooroo @Tim last edited by

                                                                  @Tim said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                                                  @KiwiMurph NICE

                                                                  In other news, NH rugby said they don't want the springboks in their comp

                                                                  Machpants taniwharugby 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                  • Machpants
                                                                    Machpants @Hooroo last edited by

                                                                    @Hooroo said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                                                    @Tim said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                                                    @KiwiMurph NICE

                                                                    In other news, NH rugby said they don't want the springboks in their comp

                                                                    Don't care how they ended up staying, but they are

                                                                    Hooroo 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                                    • Hooroo
                                                                      Hooroo @Machpants last edited by

                                                                      @Machpants said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                                                      @Hooroo said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                                                      @Tim said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                                                      @KiwiMurph NICE

                                                                      In other news, NH rugby said they don't want the springboks in their comp

                                                                      Don't care how they ended up staying, but they are

                                                                      Yeah it is good for SH rugby.

                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                      • Kirwan
                                                                        Kirwan last edited by

                                                                        That's great news for the future for NZ rugby.

                                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                        • taniwharugby
                                                                          taniwharugby @Hooroo last edited by

                                                                          @Hooroo said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                                                          NH rugby said they don't want the springboks in their comp

                                                                          yeah that probably was a factor...oh well, think it is best result all round though!

                                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                          • A
                                                                            akan004 last edited by

                                                                            mofitzy_ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                            • C
                                                                              cgrant last edited by

                                                                              In a Covid world, the financial drawing power of the NH is cruelly declining.

                                                                              gt12 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                              • gt12
                                                                                gt12 @cgrant last edited by

                                                                                @cgrant said in Future of The Rugby Championship:

                                                                                In a Covid world, the financial drawing power of the NH is cruelly declining as they fucking deserve.

                                                                                FIFY.

                                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                                • Catogrande
                                                                                  Catogrande @Snowy last edited by

                                                                                  This post is deleted!
                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                  • Catogrande
                                                                                    Catogrande last edited by

                                                                                    It’s the best decision IMO. It retains robustness in the SH competitions and dies not further overcrowd the NH comps. Moreover and as far as the NH goes, is SA a financially sensible gamble? Maybe, but one I’d bet the house on, especially when you don’t need to.

                                                                                    Good outcome I reckon.

                                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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