Guns?.........or is that the least of the problems?



  • If you can get further away the odds of hitting them if you have to fire greatly reduces - handguns are not all that accurate and most police are not expert shots.

    And the adrenalin factor. I love watching shows like Doomsday Preppers where they do some target practice and are all gung-ho about their survival chances. Different when someone is shooting back.



  • Yeah, a bit like that Mike Tyson quote "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face".



  • Iron Mike was such a philosopher....I think it was "mouth" rather than "face" tho



  • If "more guns is the answer" then this should help:
     
    http://blog.uspatriottactical.com/m249-goes-semi-auto-fnh-usas-new-m249s/
     
    In essence: the M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) that is the standard LMG for the US military, is now available in a semi-auto version for civilians.
     
    Obviously the difference is they've removed the option for full auto, and using a closed bolt as a result. But I'm sure some happy chappy will fuck around with that at the first opportunity so they can throw some lead downrange... or into a police station/school/military recruitment office.
     
    You can even get an 800-round backpack feed if you like!
     



  • Any idea on a price? The mrs is always saying I'm hard to find Xmas gifts for , I'll send her a link .



  • The weapon itself is USD8k - backpack I've no idea.
     
    Getting either into the country is probably the issue.
     
    The M249 is the US version of the Minimi F89 that the Australian military use as the squad-based LMG (5.56mm NATO). I was reading the NZ Army still use a 7.62mm?



  • I think they have both , I was at an open day and they let us play with an unloaded 5.56 version. They've had the 7.62 version for a long time, my step brother joined in the early 80s and the gpmg was around back then.
    They are ditching the Steyrs and moving to a version of the m4 made by Lewis machine and tool. You guys are keeping yours because they are manufactured in Australia ?



  • We're moving to a new version of the Steyr - http://www.army.gov.au/Our-work/Equipment-and-clothing/Small-Arms/Enhanced-F88
     
    Enhanced F88 Austeyr (EF88 if you like) and my brother (Army), who is staying with us over Xmas, said its a good step up from the original Steyr. Lighter, better accuracy, the grenade launcher sights are incorporated and the trigger mechanism for it is better. Some bloke did a writeup on it here which discusses the other enhancements: http://rogueadventurer.com/2013/01/12/ef88-australias-next-generation-assault-rifle/
     
    They're marketing it internationally as the F90 - here's a vid of the guys at Thales (Lithgow, just west of Sydney) running through some test procedures.
     



  • Interesting situation in the US over ... well shit i dunno - land usage and democracy and guns n shit. The language and coverage are interesting points - its not "terrorism" in this case; apparently its rampant patriotism and something that this particular kind of idiot has been itching to do i.e. stand up to the guvmint!
     
    I don't think these hicks appreciate that in taking on their government, they are, as Jim Jeffries said: bringing guns to a drone fight. Local authorities won't do much, but I would love to see Delta Team deployed on a night op to scare the shit out of them.
     
    And yes, I fully appreciate that the hicks probably have NVG and other freely available "prepper" equipment of their own 🙂
     
     
    http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/social-media-questions-lame-response-to-militant-group-occupying-oregon-wildlife-park/news-story/36b7e7f287e05d3d094343a73820dd24

    A GROUP of men in the US storm a federal government building armed to the teeth and declare a plan to occupy it for years.
     
    Cue pandemonium, right? Well, not so much.
     
    Despite the sensational actions of the group, the response from the American media has been regarded by many as tepid, disinterested and hypocritical.
     
    The top trending hashtag on Twitter this morning was #OregonUnderAttack but the bulk of the activity has been from those lamenting the double standards shown by the American media and authorities, with many highlighting the hypocrisy of the reaction in general.
     
    Here’s what happened:
     
    Over the weekend, an armed group of American ranchers took over a building at a national wildlife refuge in Oregon and called on “fellow patriots” to grab their guns and join them in the fight.
     
    The takeover followed a peaceful march held by the group in support for ranchers Dwight Hammond, 73, and Steven Hammond, 46, who are scheduled to report to federal prison this week after being convicted of arson.
     
    The Hammond ranchers say they lit the fires — which burned 130 acres of federally-leased land — to reduce the growth of invasive plants and to protect their property from wildfires. But the prosecution alleged they did so to cover up poaching. The father and son were convicted in 2012 and have already served jail time (the father three months, the son one year) but now must return for an additional term of about four years after a federal judge overruled the initial sentencing.
     
    Among the militant group are three brothers from the controversial Bundy family. The patriarch of the family is Cliven Bundy who was at the centre of a dramatic standoff with federal officials in 2014 over his right to allow cows to graze on federal land. Similar to the situation in Oregon, the Bundy family were joined by armed supporters and the incident turned into a national flashpoint for anti-government sentiment among libertarians.
     
    A Bundy family member told local media there are 150 people in the group occupying the wildlife refuge in Oregon, but nearby reporters say the number of men is likely closer to 15.
     
    The men say they are willing to use force and violence if authorities try to remove them from their post.
     
    “I didn’t come here to shoot, I came here to die,” one of the men told a reporter on the outskirts of the wildlife park.
     
    A local school district has announced it will keep schools closed all week due to the standoff.
     
    So far no substantial police force has been deployed to the area. Police sheriff Dave Ward told locals to stay away from the park as authorities work to defuse the situation.
     
    “I haven’t seen a single law enforcement vehicle out here,” a local reported at the scene posted on Twitter this morning.
     
    In response, social media has been ablaze with those flabbergasted by the tepid reaction from authorities and the media.
     
    Much of the discontent has been around the language used to describe the group and the media’s reticence to label their actions as a form of terrorism.

    The article goes on to describe some of the individuals involved - one of whom is an ex-Marine with a reported history of anti-Islamic sentiment.
     
    There are some class tweets around this as always.



  • The govt is probably doing bugger all to deprive these clowns of publicity as much as they can. There's been a few of these fuckwits do similarly stupid things over the years, the Bundys mentioned in that article , Ruby Ridge, Waco those idiots that killed the talkback host in the 80s and they seem to inspire the next group of jackasses every time the govt cracks down on them.



  • The govt is probably doing bugger all to deprive these clowns of publicity as much as they can. There's been a few of these fuckwits do similarly stupid things over the years, the Bundys mentioned in that article , Ruby Ridge, Waco those idiots that killed the talkback host in the 80s and they seem to inspire the next group of jackasses every time the govt cracks down on them.

    It's usually a property rights issue. I thought you were conservative Jegga. Defending the state over the individual seems kinda, wellll, super-duper-socialist-liberal. Just sayin'!



  • It's usually a property rights issue. I thought you were conservative Jegga. Defending the state over the individual seems kinda, wellll, super-duper-socialist-liberal. Just sayin'!

    No you're as wrong as you were when you had that rant last month where you said Breitbart was my favourite site . What an odd post.
    Why would anyone be defending armed nutters taking over a building? I'm hoping that none of them get a chance to get killed and become martyrs and instead after weeks of boring themselves shitless in the building the authorities fill the building with CS gas and send in the dogs .





  • Well-well Jegga, I apologize. I didn't know you were a leftie authoritarian socialist like me, I thought you were on the other side, so my mistake. 
     
    Like yourself, a fellow liberal, I don't like guns either. I'm an hour from Buffalo and two from Detroit. A visit to a 7/11 in either city after hours means getting past a hired-gun, yes really, who'll sit at the door on a milk crate with a revolver in his lap. Kinda frightens me, and makes me pleased to escape back across the border. But I don't get too worked up about their system. My primary concern is what goes on in my own neighborhood, and what the government does with my taxes. I'm much more concerned about pissheads racing cars around town than what happens in a foreign country. Mostly because it concerns me directly and I might be able to do something about it. A very liberal perspective, I'm sure you will agree. And really, with the much higher fatality rate where I live accounted by drunk drivers rather than gunfire, I'm not sure whether I should be banning alcohol, automobiles, or both. I'm pretty sure if we did ban both, and permitted automobiles exclusively for the use of police, ambulances, and fire-trucks, we'd probably be safer. Sadly, economics, property rights and that damned Charter of Rights and Freedoms mean I lose and that pesky capitalist system you and me are trying to defeat, if I understand you correctly, prevails, again. So I'll just have to reseve energy and stop worrying and learn to love the status quo. Oh well. I can always browbeat those idiotic Americans and their stupid 2nd Amendment. Makes me feel better already.
     
    This might interest you, it's a commentary ("The War Against Cowboys") about the current scandal, but beware, it's a conservative position that I despise and like me might make you pig-stomping mad because it actually does defend armed nutters, and if my liberal head explodes I'm pretty sure yours might too. Keep away from sharp objects. And liquor. And automobiles. Ahhh, safer already.



  • http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/04/us/04oregon-listy.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

    Uh-oh, first Drudge, now my personal newspaper of choice, the Grey Lady herself, the liberal NYT, seems to think the issue is about property rights. Looks like the right-wing wackos are manipulating them with their voodoo mind-control, too. Is there no escaping the lunacy?
     
    Update: Answering my own question (above): No there is not. No escape, that is. Mind control. 
     
    I just read another conservative mental-case who's parroting the New York Times. (Or is it the other way around. (Either way, 2016 is the Year of the ridiculous. Already!!))
     
    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/

    I'm feeling v-e-r-y s-l-e-e-p-y . . .



  • Red Terror while most of your posts about music etc are entertaining I stand by my opinion that you have the politics of a 6th form student counciller , your rants about the US govt and " neocons" etc are particularly cringeworthy.
    I don't really care if it's about property rights or not or what newspapers are reporting it as . Thinking that taking over a building with guns is a bad idea does not make me a socialist ,I'd expect any normal person to think that.
    By all means carry on with yet another bloviating diatribe if you want though. I probably won't bother reading it though.



  • I love the idea that the people defending this nutjob are "libertarian anti government involvement".
     
    When what this guy is demanding is government subsidies to fund his lifestyle. If he had done ANY of the stuff he's done over the last 20 years - from not paying for grazing rights, to arson, to poaching (stealing) to a private company or indvividal he'd be sued, bankrupt & gone. He's only got away with it because the government half accept they have to subsidize this morons life.
     
    9 times out of 10 when someone in the US says "I'm a libitarian!" they mean "I'm susidized to all fuck but too retarded to realise!"



  • your rants about the US govt and " neocons" etc are particularly cringeworthy.

    Oh, I get it. United States sells more arms than any nation on earth. It's big business. Neocons and Libs want to export as many of them as possible to foreign governments as well as jihadists (cough my apology, "moderate rebels") and insurrectionists for political purposes, yet confiscate them at home where they are actually enshrined as a right in a constitution. I also get that so-called self-proclaimed conservatives who rant about liberalism yet love Big Government, defer to authority and want to regulate enshrined rights might, y'know, not be quite as conservative and ride quite so high in the saddle as they pretend. But what do I know? I'm just a 6th former.



  • I love the idea that the people defending this nutjob are "libertarian anti government involvement".
     
    When what this guy is demanding is government subsidies to fund his lifestyle. If he had done ANY of the stuff he's done over the last 20 years - from not paying for grazing rights, to arson, to poaching (stealing) to a private company or indvividal he'd be sued, bankrupt & gone. He's only got away with it because the government half accept they have to subsidize this morons life.
     
    9 times out of 10 when someone in the US says "I'm a libitarian!" they mean "I'm susidized to all fuck but too retarded to realise!"

    I think you've nailed it.

    The Harney County ranchers are paying the BLM $400,000 for the costs of fighting fires the BLM claims they set. [...]
     
    (Father and son) were found guilty of two counts – the two fires they readily admitted to starting on their own property.
     
    In order to draw the original court case to a close, the two men, in a plea deal, agreed that they would not appeal the 2012 sentence.
     
    The Department of Justice news release said arson on federal land carries a five-year mandatory minimum sentence. Judge Michael Hogan, however, did not give the two men the minimum sentence called for under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, saying it would have been “grossly disproportionate” to the crime. He added that a longer sentence would not meet any idea he has of justice and that he didn’t believe congress intended that act to be applied in cases like the Hammond one. A longer sentence than the few months he gave them would “shock his conscience” he said.
     
    The Department of Justice appealed for a full sentence.
     
    The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals agreed to a review of the case and District Chief Judge Ann Aiken went ahead with a full sentence – five years in federal prison for both men.

    Throw the book at them.
     
    Starting a brushfire on your own property, pay for the damages when it gets out of control, jesus-christ, that 70-year-old property owner richly deserves 5 years in the slammer as a "terrorist." It makes complete sense, and is really difficult to fathom why anybody -- even the original judge (bolded above, hoo-boy, says he has a "conscience," what a wingnut) might think it a "disproportionate" and excessive penalty. Doesn't this libertarian wacko realize they're the Fifth Column domestic arm of Al Qaeda? It's a damn shame they're not being waterboarded in Gitmo. Shurely this terrorist-sympathizer judge hasn't forgotten the Twin Towers. It's probably past time Federal Agents investigated him while they's at it.
     
    Link: Where there's smoke.



  • Red Terror while most of your posts about music etc are entertaining

    As are some of your posts about rugby.
     
    I don't really care if it's about property rights or not ...



  • Schadenfreude:
     
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/12189432/Pro-gun-activist-shot-by-her-own-son-after-boasting-of-firearm-training-on-social-media.html

    An outspoken pro-gun activist was accidentally shot in the back by her four-year-old son a day after boasting on social media that the toddler was learning how to use a firearm.

    Jamie Gilt, 31, who runs a Facebook page called â€œJamie Gilt for Gun Sense”, was wounded when the boy fired her .45 calibre handgun through the driver’s seat after finding it in the back of her pick-up truck.

    A sheriff’s deputy was alerted to the incident after spotting Ms Gilt behaving “frantically” behind the wheel of the vehicle in Putnam County, Jacksonville, Florida.

    The handgun was found on the floor next to the back seat, said Captain Joseph Wells of Putnam Country sheriff’s office. The injured woman told him her son had accidentally fired the weapon as he sat in the back.

    “She was shot through the seat and the round went through her back,” Capt Wells told the Florida Times Union.

    Ms Gilt was taken to hospital where she was said to be in stable condition. Her son, who was unhurt, was reportedly staying with relatives. Officers said he was not strapped into his child booster seat when they reached the scene. Police say they are satisfied the shooting is not criminal. 
    It happened a day after Ms Gilt revealed that her son was being taught how to use a gun. 
    “Even my 4 year old gets jacked up to target shoot with the .22,” she wrote during a heated Facebook debate about the use of guns for self-protection. The post appeared to have been removed from her page following the shooting. 
    She also posted a video of a six-year-old disabled boy being shown how to use a semi-automatic weapon by what appeared to be American military personnel, with the comment “awesome”. 
    Ms Gilt had also declared her support for Ted Cruz, the Republican presidential candidate who is a vocal supporter of gun ownership rights. 
    Gun control advocates used Ms Gilt’s Facebook page after the incident to mock her views on gun control. 
    “The hypocrisy... Jamie Gilt for gun sense? Sorry you were shot. Sorry your son will have to live with this the rest of his life,” one comment read.



  • yeah Tim posted a pisstake facebook page for her son on the awesome stuff thread
     
    https://www.facebook.com/Jamie-Gilts-Son-524458667726804/



  • Gold.



  • Great definition and example of schadenfreude too, well spotted JC



  • I still would.



  • Looks like too much prayer factor going on there...



  • I still would.

    You got a thing for ladies with half-inch wounds in their backs Jegga?



  • He's been reading Ballard's Crash again.



  • He's been reading Ballard's Crash again.

    That would be one of the more fucked up movies I've seen, not far behind bad boy bubby.



  • You got a thing for hot ladies who like guns Jegga?

    Fixed that for you, obviously I'd wait until the stitches were out and get int the queue behind this chick
     



  • The book is brilliant. You should read it.



  • The book is brilliant. You should read it.The book is brilliant. You should read it.

    I'll hunt it out, have you ever read snow crash?



  • I still would.

    From behind?



  • Wouldn't want to get the wrong hole.   :whistle:



  • Not sure that was what she had in mind when she wanted someone to shoot up her back :think:



  • Wouldn't want to get the wrong hole.   :whistle:She has three now



  • Four



  • I'll hunt it out, have you ever read snow crash?

    He's not my thing. Ballard may be the most important writer, in terms of style and psychology, of the second half of the 20th century. His biographical novels (Empire of the Sun (the film is garbage) and The Kindness of Women) are incomparable.



  • Anyway, my old landlord ran Jerry Brown's gubernatorial and presidential candidacy campaigns - he thought it was the most vital thing he had ever read.



  • Schadenfreude:
     
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/12189432/Pro-gun-activist-shot-by-her-own-son-after-boasting-of-firearm-training-on-social-media.html

    She's probably quite disappointed in the little lad.  Only a double tap in the head would do from that range


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