US Politics



  • @Siam said in US Politics:

    Not being able to poll better than the idiot is the real story of Trumps presidency

    I think the real story of trump's presidency is the massive global damage to usa's reputation, the internal damage and increased polarisation of their political system, and the treatment of facts/expert knowledge as just opinions on an equal footing with any random fool's opinion.
    China really could not have hoped for a better outcome in terms of their aim for increased global influence, the US is a laughing stock.



  • @reprobate said in US Politics:

    @Siam said in US Politics:

    Not being able to poll better than the idiot is the real story of Trumps presidency

    I think the real story of trump's presidency is the massive global damage to usa's reputation, the internal damage and increased polarisation of their political system, and the treatment of facts/expert knowledge as just opinions on an equal footing with any random fool's opinion.
    China really could not have hoped for a better outcome in terms of their aim for increased global influence, the US is a laughing stock.

    TBF, that was going on long before Trump. And Obama is equally to blame - his weakness and withdrawal from the world gave Putin & China a nice warm power vacuum to fill.

    Agree with you on Trump's "fool's opinions" but just think Obama's platitudes, virtue-signalling and excuses for inaction were equally as bad,

    How the US got itself into a situation where likes of Trump, Pelosi, Biden etc are the heavyweight politicians is beyond me..



  • Obama has been piping a bit recently when he is customarily very quiet.

    He had a comment "accidentally leaked" on the Flynn matter and yesterday he ripped into Trump over Covid-19.

    I think his motivation is he is worried about Biden, who is coming across as so ineffectual and confused. Obama wants to try and defend himself and by extension Biden because Trump is pursuing the strategy of tying Biden to Obama and then attacking Obama over the spying allegations. Biden doesn't seem to know what to say.



  • @Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:

    @reprobate said in US Politics:

    @Siam said in US Politics:

    Not being able to poll better than the idiot is the real story of Trumps presidency

    I think the real story of trump's presidency is the massive global damage to usa's reputation, the internal damage and increased polarisation of their political system, and the treatment of facts/expert knowledge as just opinions on an equal footing with any random fool's opinion.
    China really could not have hoped for a better outcome in terms of their aim for increased global influence, the US is a laughing stock.

    TBF, that was going on long before Trump. And Obama is equally to blame - his weakness and withdrawal from the world gave Putin & China a nice warm power vacuum to fill.

    Agree with you on Trump's "fool's opinions" but just think Obama's platitudes, virtue-signalling and excuses for inaction were equally as bad,

    How the US got itself into a situation where likes of Trump, Pelosi, Biden etc are the heavyweight politicians is beyond me..

    After the clusterfuck that was the Bush years, one can hardly blame Obama (and indeed Trump) for a reluctance to get aggressively involved in international affairs, particularly any armed conflict.

    The mistake was probably to encourage resolution around the globe (mainly the ME), but then not provide military support. That being said, when they did get involved, they caught absolute hell for it.

    In short, the US President simply can't win.



  • @junior said in US Politics:

    After the clusterfuck that was the Bush years, one can hardly blame Obama (and indeed Trump) for a reluctance to get aggressively involved in international affairs, particularly any armed conflict.

    Less a reluctance, more a continual re-definition of red-lines & political objectives to avoid taking action. Made the US look weak. One of the few things Trump did right was sending a strong military message to Assad & Putin early on.

    In short, the US President simply can't win.

    Not if they come from the recent presidential gene pool, they can't...



  • Just finished Malcolm Turnbull’s memoirs this weekend. Much like Obama you get the feeling they both (rightfully) have big tickets on themselves and are having massive issues reconciling that their life’s crowning achievement was achieved by someone they consider so inferior - Abbott and Trump respectively.



  • Pretty fuckin hilarious.
    What's a liberal to do asks the NY Times.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/19/technology/elon-musk-tesla-red-pill.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur



  • @dogmeat being the only developed country without a national health system beggars belief also



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    being the only developed country without a national health system beggars belief also

    Other countries have insurance based systems. Obamacare was a poorly implemented copy of the Swiss system for instance



  • @Duluth said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    being the only developed country without a national health system beggars belief also

    Other countries have insurance based systems. Obamacare was a poorly implemented copy of the Swiss system for instance

    Poorly implemented or not, it seemed that most people in the US are philosophically opposed to government subsidised healthcare.



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @dogmeat being the only developed country without a national health system beggars belief also

    Especially when you consider they spend nearly twice the public funds per capita than any other nation.

    https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

    A good article on it is in the NYTIMes (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/upshot/the-real-reason-the-us-has-employer-sponsored-health-insurance.html) but what it doesn't spell out is how complicit organised labour was in driving this series of events by joining the medical profession and insurance industry in preventing state based systems. Instead they opted to make it based on collective bargaining agreements.



  • @canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @Duluth said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    being the only developed country without a national health system beggars belief also

    Other countries have insurance based systems. Obamacare was a poorly implemented copy of the Swiss system for instance

    Poorly implemented or not, it seemed that most people in the US are philosophically opposed to government subsidised healthcare.

    Some Republicans are philosophically opposed to it - Obamacare was quite similar to Mitt Romney's system in Massachusetts, so it's not even all Republicans.

    I believe polls show strong support for some sort of public health care, but it's harder to get majority support for specific proposals, and even harder if you don't have both parties on board to some extent because the opposition will be higher if it's not bipartisan.



  • @Godder said in US Politics:

    I believe polls show strong support for some sort of public health care, but it's harder to get majority support for specific proposals, and even harder if you don't have both parties on board to some extent because the opposition will be higher if it's not bipartisan.

    It wasn't smart politics from the Dems back in at the beginning of the Obama term. I think Obama thought if he based a plan around a Republican-ish plan everyone would fall into line.
    The reality is bigger trade offs were need (interstate competition etc). The Dems went to a position of "we don't need your votes" too quickly

    That meant a handful of Dem holdouts became very important. The way the last handful of votes were purchased resulted in some terrible additions to the law. That's one of the reasons Obamacare does not look much like Romneycare (or the Swiss system)

    Without partisan cover there was no ability to set the penalties at the correct level (making a death spiral inevitable).
    There was also no courage to stand by the costs. Various taxes were delayed and then dropped. A classic politicians position - for the benefit but not the cost.

    But one of the biggest obstacles is that a Swiss plan probably requires a constitutional amendment. Try that without making concessions to the other party.



  • @Duluth with the filibuster, I don't think the Dems ever thought they could pass it without some Republicans being on board, but having to get to 60 instead of 50 made it harder and forced more concessions than would have been needed in a parliamentary democracy, or even in some of the states where it's less controversial.



  • @antipodean said in US Politics:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @dogmeat being the only developed country without a national health system beggars belief also

    Especially when you consider they spend nearly twice the public funds per capita than any other nation.

    https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

    A good article on it is in the NYTIMes (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/upshot/the-real-reason-the-us-has-employer-sponsored-health-insurance.html) but what it doesn't spell out is how complicit organised labour was in driving this series of events by joining the medical profession and insurance industry in preventing state based systems. Instead they opted to make it based on collective bargaining agreements.

    An example of free enterprise making things more expensive?



  • @canefan you think the US system is free enterprise??



  • @canefan said in US Politics:

    @antipodean said in US Politics:

    @canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:

    @dogmeat being the only developed country without a national health system beggars belief also

    Especially when you consider they spend nearly twice the public funds per capita than any other nation.

    https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

    A good article on it is in the NYTIMes (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/05/upshot/the-real-reason-the-us-has-employer-sponsored-health-insurance.html) but what it doesn't spell out is how complicit organised labour was in driving this series of events by joining the medical profession and insurance industry in preventing state based systems. Instead they opted to make it based on collective bargaining agreements.

    An example of free enterprise making things more expensive?

    An example of the corruption of democratic process and interference with free market principles.



  • @Duluth said in US Politics:

    Without partisan cover there was no ability to set the penalties at the correct level (making a death spiral inevitable).

    Didn't it became cheaper for companies to pay the fines for not providing health insurance for their workforce rather than actually provide it?



  • At the end of the day the dems would never have made meaningful changes to healthcare (despite controlling the presidency and all of Congress), because they received very large amounts of money from heath insurance companies (in this election cycle it's something like 40% of their funding). They basically gave a handout to insurance companies by making it mandatory (under financial penalty) to buy expensive, crappy health insurance. Insurance costs for grad students at my old school increased 10x.



  • I hope this becomes a campaign issue if (and that's a big if) wrongdoing is found by the prosecutor looking into CIA, FBI and DOJ conduct of the Obama administration.

    https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/eli-lake/michael-flynn-gets-railroaded-by-the-fbi/



  • Can someone explain to me how the US got to a state where the two presidential candidates are Trump and this bloke?

    Capture.JPG

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/05/22/biden-charlamagne-trump-black/



  • @Victor-Meldrew hey at least I still find myself shaking my head he said that. If it was trump I wouldn't bat an eyelash.



  • @Bones said in US Politics:

    @Victor-Meldrew hey at least I still find myself shaking my head he said that. If it was trump I wouldn't bat an eyelash.

    Biden once plagiarized a speech by Neil Kinnock.

    Says it all.



  • @Victor-Meldrew nicely tied back to Cummingsgate. My doesn't that have a ring to it.



  • Biden:" why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go to a university? "

    Kinnock: "Why am I the first Kinnock in a thousand generations to be able to get to university?"

    The pithiest comment I can recall was " Because standards have dropped?"...



  • @Bones said in US Politics:

    @Victor-Meldrew hey at least I still find myself shaking my head he said that. If it was trump I wouldn't bat an eyelash.

    Yep. Are we going to have "Biden derangement syndrome" now though?

    I suppose it keeps it fair.



  • This guy is historically reliable, Emmy, AP, and RTNDA Award–Winning American journalist. Used to work for Fox.

    He has sources in relation to the surveillance of Trump and his campaign and certain actions taken by the FBI.



  • The memes on Biden have begun..............

    Trump's official social media page posted this.



  • @Frank said in US Politics:

    The memes on Biden have begun..............

    Trump's official social media page posted this.

    Is Trump a child?

    Redundant question.



  • @Crucial I started watching thinking there might be something funny in there, but soon lost interest. Or was it not supposed to be funny?



  • @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @Frank said in US Politics:

    The memes on Biden have begun..............

    Trump's official social media page posted this.

    Is Trump a child?

    Redundant question.

    Trump's maybe just giving a small bit back

    I feel a bit sorry for Joe. But whats going on. Hes clearly losing his mind so why. Is Hillary about to make a comeback?



  • @Winger said in US Politics:

    Is Hillary about to make a comeback?

    That'd be deplorable



  • Not a good look for Cuomo. Or anyone who had anything to do with this NY order.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8360381/New-York-Health-Department-website-deletes-order-stating-nursing-homes-shouldnt-deny-admissions.html

    New York Health Department website quietly deletes controversial Cuomo order that forced nursing homes to admit coronavirus patients and 'led to 5,000 deaths'

    and here's the order

    A copy of the page saved by the Internet archive Wayback Machine, however, shows that Cuomo's order stated: "No resident shall be denied readmission or admission to the NH [nursing home] solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of COVID-19. NHs [Nursing homes] are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for COVID-19 prior to admission or readmission."



  • @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @Frank said in US Politics:

    The memes on Biden have begun..............

    Trump's official social media page posted this.

    Is Trump a child?

    Redundant question.

    Hate speech actually



  • @Winger said in US Politics:

    Not a good look for Cuomo. Or anyone who had anything to do with this NY order.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8360381/New-York-Health-Department-website-deletes-order-stating-nursing-homes-shouldnt-deny-admissions.html

    New York Health Department website quietly deletes controversial Cuomo order that forced nursing homes to admit coronavirus patients and 'led to 5,000 deaths'

    and here's the order

    A copy of the page saved by the Internet archive Wayback Machine, however, shows that Cuomo's order stated: "No resident shall be denied readmission or admission to the NH [nursing home] solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of COVID-19. NHs [Nursing homes] are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for COVID-19 prior to admission or readmission."

    Cuomo somehow managed to look good for a while when his early management and opinion of virus control was easily as bad as, if not worse than, many others.

    He's a sham.



  • @Crucial said in US Politics:

    @Winger said in US Politics:

    Not a good look for Cuomo. Or anyone who had anything to do with this NY order.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8360381/New-York-Health-Department-website-deletes-order-stating-nursing-homes-shouldnt-deny-admissions.html

    New York Health Department website quietly deletes controversial Cuomo order that forced nursing homes to admit coronavirus patients and 'led to 5,000 deaths'

    and here's the order

    A copy of the page saved by the Internet archive Wayback Machine, however, shows that Cuomo's order stated: "No resident shall be denied readmission or admission to the NH [nursing home] solely based on a confirmed or suspected diagnosis of COVID-19. NHs [Nursing homes] are prohibited from requiring a hospitalized resident who is determined medically stable to be tested for COVID-19 prior to admission or readmission."

    Cuomo somehow managed to look good for a while when his early management and opinion of virus control was easily as bad as, if not worse than, many others.

    He's a sham.

    And this.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cuomo-immunity-nursing-home-campaign-donation

    New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who signed legislation granting hospital and nursing home executives immunity from lawsuits related to the novel coronavirus last month, previously received a big-money boost from a powerful health care industry group, according to a new report.



  • This told me a lot about Governer Cuomo. Funny too



  • Trump should put this on his Twitter feed.



  • @Frank said in US Politics:

    Trump should put this on his Twitter feed.

    If this for real?



  • @Frank

    I hope that Biden clip is edited..I really do.

    EDIT: It is edited.


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