US Politics



  • @Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:
    the only thing to keep in mind is im sure its easier to bring piece AFTER isis has more or less been beaten, at very least on the retreat

    Indeed.
    ISIS rose up after under Obama.
    It was dispatched under Trump.
    So he pretty much gets credit for that too.

    Obama allowed the annexation of Crimea by Russia.
    His Syrian policy was a mess.
    China was becoming more aggressive and of course was NOTHING was done to combat their trade cheating.



  • @Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:

    the only thing to keep in mind is im sure its easier to bring piece AFTER isis has more or less been beaten, at very least on the retreat

    The strength of ISIS doesn't really have anything to do with the recent treaties



  • @Frank i guess my point was my memory was that ISIS was already in retreat when Trump came into office. the forces that ultimately did the work were more or less in place, so although he knocked them off i would have though it was a joint effort, its like John Hart largely using Laurie Mains players and winning in South Africa...yeah, you were on the ground at the time but you have a head start

    @Duluth true, it was more specifically a reply to @franks comment about defeating ISIS



  • @Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:

    @Frank i guess my point was my memory was that ISIS was already in retreat when Trump came into office. the forces that ultimately did the work were more or less in place, so although he knocked them off i would have though it was a joint effort, its like John Hart largely using Laurie Mains players and winning in South Africa...yeah, you were on the ground at the time but you have a head start

    @Duluth true, it was more specifically a reply to @franks comment about defeating ISIS

    Special Forces guy was on Rogan last week, and under Obama he said they had 1/3 of the budget for an item like ammunition than under Trump. He used that as an example why they lost ground (and cities they had won in previous battles), and how they were able to turn the tide and finish them off.

    Basically were given the budget/tools to do the job. That is something that can be hung on Trump (and Obama)



  • @Kirwan fair enough, cant argue with that too much



  • @Kirwan And i think credit where credit is due ,

    when he came into office he made it public, with obvious digs at the opposition for how they have handled it, a priority is to finish off Isis once and for all , bring peace to the area , and bring their troops home ( there isnt too many left there now) Most of us probably thought yeah we have heard this crap before .... but its done

    You can imagine it would be all thrown in his face right now if he didnt achieve that



  • @kiwiinmelb said in US Politics:

    I think this is the stuff that makes me think WTF is going on and I dont have a particular side ,

    Fair call he gets called out for being a dick ,

    When Obama was in office the middle east was a mess , their answer was to bomb the shit out the place ,isis was out of control as a result , north korea was looking scary ,

    Trump seems to have brought calm to all of those issues , but mainstream media hardly touch it , they would rather make a story over a stupid tweet he made

    Yeah, credit where it's due. He's the guy in the chair so he gets to take credit for taking at least some of the heat out of a long-running source of worry for us all. The contrast to Obama's pandering to the BDS clowns, which achieved nothing except entrenched polarisation, is marked.

    It's a shame he can't own his mistakes as well. As I say, he's in the chair.



  • @kiwiinmelb said in US Politics:

    And i think credit where credit is due ,

    when he came into office he made it public, with obvious digs at the opposition for how they have handled it, a priority is to finish off Isis once and for all , bring peace to the area , and bring their troops home ( there isnt too many left there now) Most of us probably thought yeah we have heard this crap before .... but its done

    You can imagine it would be all thrown in his face right now if he didnt achieve that

    I mostly agree. There's definitely been a move away from the Wilsonian idea of how the US should be involved in foreign affairs. Something paleocons, libertarians and some parts of the anti war left has wanted for decades

    I'm still uncomfortable with Trumps vetoes particularly around the war in Yemen and potential war with Iran. There was bi-partisan support to get the US out of Yemen but Trump overruled Congress



  • @Duluth said in US Politics:

    @kiwiinmelb said in US Politics:

    And i think credit where credit is due ,

    when he came into office he made it public, with obvious digs at the opposition for how they have handled it, a priority is to finish off Isis once and for all , bring peace to the area , and bring their troops home ( there isnt too many left there now) Most of us probably thought yeah we have heard this crap before .... but its done

    You can imagine it would be all thrown in his face right now if he didnt achieve that

    I mostly agree. There's definitely been a move away from the Wilsonian idea of how the US should be involved in foreign affairs. Something paleocons, libertarians and some parts of the anti war left has wanted for decades

    I'm still uncomfortable with Trumps vetoes particularly around the war in Yemen and potential war with Iran. There was bi-partisan support to get the US out of Yemen but Trump overruled Congress

    And the anti China stuff , well, we want to hope that doesnt escalate to another level if he stays in



  • @taniwharugby said in US Politics:

    I agree, IMO it is often the sideshows, his delivery and arrogance that sees the bad get the headlines instead of the good.

    That's the tragedy of the man. He's actually achieved a lot, particularly in foreign affairs, trade and challenging the likes of China, Assad and Putin.

    He was elected on a platform to clean up politics and drain the swamp, which appealed to a wide range of people, but all he seems to have done is dig his own personal swamp.



  • This would go in the political meme thread..if it weren't posted by Don himself..how long before twitter fact-check and ban it?



  • @Kirwan said in US Politics:

    Special Forces guy was on Rogan last week, and under Obama he said they had 1/3 of the budget for an item like ammunition than under Trump. He used that as an example why they lost ground (and cities they had won in previous battles), and how they were able to turn the tide and finish them off.

    I heard Dan Crenshaw, a Congressman and former SEAL, saying pretty much the same thing a few months back.

    Also mentioned his former, still-serving, comrades liked the way Trump let the military get on with the job and didn't disrupt operations with high profile visits to frontline military bases.



  • @JC said in US Politics:

    The contrast to Obama's pandering to the BDS clowns, which achieved nothing except entrenched polarisation

    Pretty much sums up Obama for me.



  • @Rembrandt said in US Politics:

    This would go in the political meme thread..if it weren't posted by Don himself..how long before twitter fact-check and ban it?

    I think putting the real song Biden was dancing to might have been more effective.

    Biden pathetically pandering to Latinos by bobbing his head to Despacito.



  • @Frank pathetic.



  • @Frank What you mean this didn't actually happen? Msnbc, cnn, Snopes and the usual suspects better quickly fact check and get the real video out on their outlets quick to own Drumpf once and for all πŸ˜‰





  • @Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:

    @kiwiinmelb said in US Politics:

    I think this is the stuff that makes me think WTF is going on and I dont have a particular side ,

    Fair call he gets called out for being a dick ,

    When Obama was in office the middle east was a mess , their answer was to bomb the shit out the place ,isis was out of control as a result , north korea was looking scary ,

    Trump seems to have brought calm to all of those issues , but mainstream media hardly touch it , they would rather make a story over a stupid tweet he made

    the only thing to keep in mind is im sure its easier to bring piece AFTER isis has more or less been beaten, at very least on the retreat

    and secondly, i'd love to know how much any president actually does in these matters, i have a sneaky suspicion that most of the work is done by the actual diplomats "on the ground" as it were, who may have been put in place by him, i dont know

    I just get sick of hearing all the good stuff going on is 100% him...but all the bad stuff is 100% the last guys...which also ignores how inefficient he's been to fix things hes been left with

    I'm sure thats the exact opposite of how trump fans feel on the media they dont like though, probably doesn't get any credit for the good and blamed for ALL the bad

    The UAE and Israel have been working together unofficially for years, mainly sharing intel on the goings on of Iran (a lot of Iranian trade through Dubai). It's no surprise that Bahrain has also formalised relations, as they have a large proportion of Shi'a who get support from Iran (see what happened there during the Arab spring). This is really about the Arab Sunnis forming an alliance against the Shi'a / Iran with the help of (jewish) Israel. Also gives the Arab gulf countries access to Israeli defence systems and technology.

    To put this all down to Trump is a bit far-fetched, as it is to describe it as a peace deal - Hamas will still continue to shoot rockets into Israel and will rely on supplies from Egypt (who've had diplomatic relations with Israel for years) and receive funding from Iran.



  • @junior said in US Politics:

    @Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:

    @kiwiinmelb said in US Politics:

    I think this is the stuff that makes me think WTF is going on and I dont have a particular side ,

    Fair call he gets called out for being a dick ,

    When Obama was in office the middle east was a mess , their answer was to bomb the shit out the place ,isis was out of control as a result , north korea was looking scary ,

    Trump seems to have brought calm to all of those issues , but mainstream media hardly touch it , they would rather make a story over a stupid tweet he made

    the only thing to keep in mind is im sure its easier to bring piece AFTER isis has more or less been beaten, at very least on the retreat

    and secondly, i'd love to know how much any president actually does in these matters, i have a sneaky suspicion that most of the work is done by the actual diplomats "on the ground" as it were, who may have been put in place by him, i dont know

    I just get sick of hearing all the good stuff going on is 100% him...but all the bad stuff is 100% the last guys...which also ignores how inefficient he's been to fix things hes been left with

    I'm sure thats the exact opposite of how trump fans feel on the media they dont like though, probably doesn't get any credit for the good and blamed for ALL the bad

    The UAE and Israel have been working together unofficially for years, mainly sharing intel on the goings on of Iran (a lot of Iranian trade through Dubai). It's no surprise that Bahrain has also formalised relations, as they have a large proportion of Shi'a who get support from Iran (see what happened there during the Arab spring). This is really about the Arab Sunnis forming an alliance against the Shi'a / Iran with the help of (jewish) Israel. Also gives the Arab gulf countries access to Israeli defence systems and technology.

    To put this all down to Trump is a bit far-fetched, as it is to describe it as a peace deal - Hamas will still continue to shoot rockets into Israel and will rely on supplies from Egypt (who've had diplomatic relations with Israel for years) and receive funding from Iran.

    No no. It’s not far fetched at all. Trump wrote the textbook on deftly-handled diplomacy and this is his piece de resistance.



  • @junior said in US Politics:

    @Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:

    @kiwiinmelb said in US Politics:

    I think this is the stuff that makes me think WTF is going on and I dont have a particular side ,

    Fair call he gets called out for being a dick ,

    When Obama was in office the middle east was a mess , their answer was to bomb the shit out the place ,isis was out of control as a result , north korea was looking scary ,

    Trump seems to have brought calm to all of those issues , but mainstream media hardly touch it , they would rather make a story over a stupid tweet he made

    the only thing to keep in mind is im sure its easier to bring piece AFTER isis has more or less been beaten, at very least on the retreat

    and secondly, i'd love to know how much any president actually does in these matters, i have a sneaky suspicion that most of the work is done by the actual diplomats "on the ground" as it were, who may have been put in place by him, i dont know

    I just get sick of hearing all the good stuff going on is 100% him...but all the bad stuff is 100% the last guys...which also ignores how inefficient he's been to fix things hes been left with

    I'm sure thats the exact opposite of how trump fans feel on the media they dont like though, probably doesn't get any credit for the good and blamed for ALL the bad

    The UAE and Israel have been working together unofficially for years, mainly sharing intel on the goings on of Iran (a lot of Iranian trade through Dubai). It's no surprise that Bahrain has also formalised relations, as they have a large proportion of Shi'a who get support from Iran (see what happened there during the Arab spring). This is really about the Arab Sunnis forming an alliance against the Shi'a / Iran with the help of (jewish) Israel. Also gives the Arab gulf countries access to Israeli defence systems and technology.

    To put this all down to Trump is a bit far-fetched, as it is to describe it as a peace deal - Hamas will still continue to shoot rockets into Israel and will rely on supplies from Egypt (who've had diplomatic relations with Israel for years) and receive funding from Iran

    Obama was working towards this but, like with so many things under his tenure, mysteriously, it never got done.

    Then Trump comes along and voila!



  • @Frank said in US Politics:

    @junior said in US Politics:

    @Kiwiwomble said in US Politics:

    @kiwiinmelb said in US Politics:

    I think this is the stuff that makes me think WTF is going on and I dont have a particular side ,

    Fair call he gets called out for being a dick ,

    When Obama was in office the middle east was a mess , their answer was to bomb the shit out the place ,isis was out of control as a result , north korea was looking scary ,

    Trump seems to have brought calm to all of those issues , but mainstream media hardly touch it , they would rather make a story over a stupid tweet he made

    the only thing to keep in mind is im sure its easier to bring piece AFTER isis has more or less been beaten, at very least on the retreat

    and secondly, i'd love to know how much any president actually does in these matters, i have a sneaky suspicion that most of the work is done by the actual diplomats "on the ground" as it were, who may have been put in place by him, i dont know

    I just get sick of hearing all the good stuff going on is 100% him...but all the bad stuff is 100% the last guys...which also ignores how inefficient he's been to fix things hes been left with

    I'm sure thats the exact opposite of how trump fans feel on the media they dont like though, probably doesn't get any credit for the good and blamed for ALL the bad

    The UAE and Israel have been working together unofficially for years, mainly sharing intel on the goings on of Iran (a lot of Iranian trade through Dubai). It's no surprise that Bahrain has also formalised relations, as they have a large proportion of Shi'a who get support from Iran (see what happened there during the Arab spring). This is really about the Arab Sunnis forming an alliance against the Shi'a / Iran with the help of (jewish) Israel. Also gives the Arab gulf countries access to Israeli defence systems and technology.

    To put this all down to Trump is a bit far-fetched, as it is to describe it as a peace deal - Hamas will still continue to shoot rockets into Israel and will rely on supplies from Egypt (who've had diplomatic relations with Israel for years) and receive funding from Iran

    Obama was working towards this but, like with so many things under his tenure, mysteriously, it never got done.

    Then Trump comes along and voila!

    Obama showed too much deference towards Iran, which was always going to make getting Israel and the gulf Arab states (in particular) on board very difficult



  • I gave credit to Obama for trying something different in the Middle East, given the abject failure of US foreign policy in the region ever since the coup d'etat of '53.

    From that point on they've been backing the wrong horse and look where that's gotten us.



  • Which is satire and which is 'America's most trusted source in news'?

    https://babylonbee.com/news/cnn-criticizes-israel-arab-leaders-for-shaking-hands-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic



  • The difference in the media treatments of Trump and Biden in their two townhalls was stark.

    Trump went on ABC for a townhall and was constantly challenged (which is good).

    Biden just had his CNN townhall. Friendly questions, and next to no pushback from the moderator. And it was almost as if Biden knew the questions in advance.

    The media is full propaganda. Trying to protect him and running his campaign because Biden is going senile.


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