Black Caps tour to England
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@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy if he is going to be squeezed in I would have him replace Nichols. Nichols rode his luck big time this season.
I agree, but it is a tough call.
really tough! Drop a bloke averaging 44?
http://www.cricmetric.com/playerstats.py?player=HM Nicholls&role=batsman
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@nzzp said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy if he is going to be squeezed in I would have him replace Nichols. Nichols rode his luck big time this season.
I agree, but it is a tough call.
really tough! Drop a bloke averaging 44?
http://www.cricmetric.com/playerstats.py?player=HM Nicholls&role=batsman
It's either him or Blundell.
Nichols was incredibly lucky this year. Didn't someone post a while ago what his scores would have looked like this year if all the chances he gave were taken? It wouldn't be pretty reading.
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@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
if all the chances he gave were taken?
Probably the key to it. The stats don't say it all.
So do we stick with the tried and tested? Nicholls has done us proud but there are questions.
Go with Blundell, who has also done well, albeit a shorter time, or gamble on the shiny new thing that hasn't played test cricket? I'd back him to succeed but it is a seriously big call.
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@snowy I read the same article as Bovidae. Since that century vs Oz, Blundell has been solid-ish, but not spectacular.
Tough call, but I'm pretty sure it will be Blundell rather than Nicholls who misses out if Conway is in.
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I’m gonna say this carefully, and it breaks my heart to do so.......
But I’ve had a think and I reckon Rossco is in more danger than Nicholls. What has he done for us lately ? ( and again, this seems fucked up for a guy averaging just under 46 )
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@mn5 use the England tests as trials - If it has to be Rosco his injury can flare up....
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 use the England tests as trials - If it has to be Rosco his injury can flare up....
It’s rarified air for us as fans and we should enjoy every minute of how the team is going and the selection headaches. But again, it would be sad to see a genuine NZ great dropped. If it does happen does Nicholls automatically inherit the 4th spot and Conway 5th or do they swap ?
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@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crucial said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crucial said in Black Caps tour to England:
If we can squeeze in Conway and a couple of bowlers that's pretty strong
Where though - for Conway I mean.
I wouldn't be thinking about Santner in the test team. If we play a spinner, and you're correct we probably need to at the Ageas Bowl (that place has so many names!), then it will have to be a genuine turner of the ball. Ajaz?
Tough team to pick.
I know what you mean about Santner. He seems to be a fixture because he is a backstop bat and can eat up some overs.He certainly isn't a weapon.
To me, if we want to be truly top of the world class we need an attacking spinner. Patel and the other guy that toured on the sub continent fit that bill, just don't get a look in in less spin friendly conditions
Well obviously India shit all over us in that regard, their spin bowling all rounders are amazing talents.....but the flipside is our pace bowling unit is better than theirs.
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@mn5 They won't drop Rossco for a debutant.
He made 70 vs Pakistan in the Boxing Day test and February last year made 109* and 73* vs India in ODIs.
Those latter ones are a year ago, but recent enough in these covid days.
If everyone is fit, it will be Blundell or Conway - probably dependent on their results in the lead in tests.
The real trick will be not to waste that preparation.
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 They won't drop Rossco for a debutant.
He made 70 vs Pakistan in the Boxing Day test and February last year made 109* and 73* vs India in ODIs.
Those latter ones are a year ago, but recent enough in these covid days.
If everyone is fit, it will be Blundell or Conway - probably dependent on their results in the lead in tests.
The real trick will be not to waste that preparation.
Yeah its very unlikely I’ll give you that......can we turn Nicholls into a test opener ? Justin Langer did a fine job of this......
Looking back on that amazing Aussie team of that era I think they shoehorned him there to fit in all the other talent. They dropped a bloody good opener in Slats and Tubbs had retired......so it was a ballsy move but Langer became part of one of the greatest pairs of all time so fair to say it paid off.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
I’m gonna say this carefully, and it breaks my heart to do so.......
But I’ve had a think and I reckon Rossco is in more danger than Nicholls. What has he done for us lately ? ( and again, this seems fucked up for a guy averaging just under 46 )
I was thinking through the contenders based on consistency rather than averages. Latham (and surprisingly CDG) have the highest rates of 50s/100s per match. Of course Kane and Ross are well up there as well.
Nicholls record looks OK but there are some worrying stats. I think that of the 17 times that he has scored more than 50 only 4 have been away.Is he a home tracker?
Taylor's consistency has fallen off a wee bit as he ages but if there is one guy that I would back to put a cherry on the top of his career and depart the scene with a big contribution it is him. -
@crucial said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
I’m gonna say this carefully, and it breaks my heart to do so.......
But I’ve had a think and I reckon Rossco is in more danger than Nicholls. What has he done for us lately ? ( and again, this seems fucked up for a guy averaging just under 46 )
I was thinking through the contenders based on consistency rather than averages. Latham (and surprisingly CDG) have the highest rates of 50s/100s per match. Of course Kane and Ross are well up there as well.
Nicholls record looks OK but there are some worrying stats. I think that of the 17 times that he has scored more than 50 only 4 have been away.Is he a home tracker?
Taylor's consistency has fallen off a wee bit as he ages but if there is one guy that I would back to put a cherry on the top of his career and depart the scene with a big contribution it is him.You’re quoting some “what if’s” with Taylor. Mind you Conways whole test career is just that at this stage.....
I’m still a fan of a blokes average as being an extremely good indication of ability regardless of how much you rip it apart ( within reason ). Nicholls started with a bad technique and looked all at sea initially but 37 tests at just under 44 ? Which places him either 3rd or 4th best bat in the team depending how you view it ? Fuck yeah I’ll take that.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 They won't drop Rossco for a debutant.
He made 70 vs Pakistan in the Boxing Day test and February last year made 109* and 73* vs India in ODIs.
Those latter ones are a year ago, but recent enough in these covid days.
If everyone is fit, it will be Blundell or Conway - probably dependent on their results in the lead in tests.
The real trick will be not to waste that preparation.
Yeah its very unlikely I’ll give you that......can we turn Nicholls into a test opener ? Justin Langer did a fine job of this......
Looking back on that amazing Aussie team of that era I think they shoehorned him there to fit in all the other talent. They dropped a bloody good opener in Slats and Tubbs had retired......so it was a ballsy move but Langer became part of one of the greatest pairs of all time so fair to say it paid off.
I don't think Nicholls has the game to open in tests. He's a middle order stroke-maker.
But Conway, like Langer, is effectively a specialist No.3 who could be promoted to open, without needing major modifications to his game. Main question for me is whether he's good enough and experienced enough to roll the dice over Blundell.
Some other suggestions that we bat him at 6, BJ at 7 and don't play either CDG or Santner.
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@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 They won't drop Rossco for a debutant.
He made 70 vs Pakistan in the Boxing Day test and February last year made 109* and 73* vs India in ODIs.
Those latter ones are a year ago, but recent enough in these covid days.
If everyone is fit, it will be Blundell or Conway - probably dependent on their results in the lead in tests.
The real trick will be not to waste that preparation.
Yeah its very unlikely I’ll give you that......can we turn Nicholls into a test opener ? Justin Langer did a fine job of this......
Looking back on that amazing Aussie team of that era I think they shoehorned him there to fit in all the other talent. They dropped a bloody good opener in Slats and Tubbs had retired......so it was a ballsy move but Langer became part of one of the greatest pairs of all time so fair to say it paid off.
I don't think Nicholls has the game to open in tests. He's a middle order stroke-maker.
But Conway, like Langer, is effectively a specialist No.3 who could be promoted to open, without needing major modifications to his game. Main question for me is whether he's good enough and experienced enough to roll the dice over Blundell.
Some other suggestions that we bat him at 6, BJ at 7 and don't play either CDG or Santner.
I’d be keen on that although it places a bit of strain on the four bowlers considering there’s not many options from 1-6 ( KW I’m looking at you, its not enough to be captain and our best batsman ever, you need to roll the arm over too )
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@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
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@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
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@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
No probables about it, just depends on the batting order and where everyone fits in. When I see some of the donkeys who’ve had longish test careers in other teams playing nowadays it’s a good problem to have. We don’t have that gutsy journeyman who averages in and around 30 like others do.
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@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
Yeah he certainly didn’t have the career that was expected of him, debuting alongside Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart and Robin Smith who were all far better test players despite not dominating at first class level to the extent Hick did.
I’m just wondering how long we can ride this wave as fans and when/if the next generation of Hows/Redmonds/Papps/Marshall ( either or )Fultons comes in.......
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
Yeah he certainly didn’t have the career that was expected of him, debuting alongside Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart and Robin Smith who were all far better test players despite not dominating at first class level to the extent Hick did.
I’m just wondering how long we can ride this wave as fans and when/if the next generation of Hows/Redmonds/Papps/Marshall ( either or )Fultons comes in.......
...and David White's. Let's not forget David White, because I hold him largely responsible for this wave.
Not because he's a gun administrator, but because his administration (along with Spark Sport) is responsible for me not being able to watch it. Presumably, once I can watch again, we'll return to dross.
So let me just say - Fuck you, David.
You would have been doing me a favour if you'd blocked my viewing during your playing era, but rural NZ is missing the equivalent of Sir Paddles' hey day.
Someone has been playing with David's stats on Wikipedia. They're not as good on Cricinfo!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_White_(New_Zealand_cricketer)
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
Yeah he certainly didn’t have the career that was expected of him, debuting alongside Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart and Robin Smith who were all far better test players despite not dominating at first class level to the extent Hick did.
I’m just wondering how long we can ride this wave as fans and when/if the next generation of Hows/Redmonds/Papps/Marshall ( either or )Fultons comes in.......
...and David White's. Let's not forget David White, because I hold him largely responsible for this wave.
Not because he's a gun administrator, but because his administration (along with Spark Sport) is responsible for me not being able to watch it. Presumably, once I can watch again, we'll return to dross.
So let me just say - Fuck you, David.
You would have been doing me a favour if you'd blocked my viewing during your playing era, but rural NZ is missing the equivalent of Sir Paddles' hey day.
Someone has been playing with David's stats on Wikipedia. They're not as good on Cricinfo!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_White_(New_Zealand_cricketer)
374 test matches in 9 days ? That’s a solid effort. He got some runs too.
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@mn5 12 wickets in 11 balls!
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Only averaging 135 after making 374 tons is a bit of a let down though. High score of 160 suggests he got to the milestone and lost focus.
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@cyclops His partnership with Spark Sport suggests he saw the cheque and lost focus!
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
I don't remember Hick excelling in ODIs then floundering at test level....
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Stead was on the TV tonight sowing the seed for Conway to replace Blundell.
"It's one of the options that's being considered," Stead says of the Blundell-Conway swap. "Tom Blundell's been, I guess, the incumbent there - with Tom Latham - for a while now and has done a great job for us in that role. "I don't think that's his natural role, though, and I think Tom recognises that as well. We just have to work through that. "Everyone's seen the success that [Conway's] had and we know he's a fine player - it's just working out what that looks like." -
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 Devon will be looking to run up the scores. Have our batting stocks ever been this strong? I'd say no
Even if Martin Donnelly, Glenn Turner, Martin Crowe and Bert Sutcliffe all played in the same era I’d still say no.
I really don't follow cricket that much these days, but I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
Used to be big debates about over-working quality players and carefully nurturing possibly talent - now it seems to be about which quality player not to play.
Good place to be.
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@canefan Well, your memory is clearly flawed.
Graeme averaged 65 after his first 3 ODIs and 11 after his first three tests!
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan Well, your memory is clearly flawed.
Graeme averaged 65 after his first 3 ODIs and 11 after his first three tests!
Clearly
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@canefan I was delighted to discover that!
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
Yeah he certainly didn’t have the career that was expected of him, debuting alongside Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart and Robin Smith who were all far better test players despite not dominating at first class level to the extent Hick did.
I’m just wondering how long we can ride this wave as fans and when/if the next generation of Hows/Redmonds/Papps/Marshall ( either or )Fultons comes in.......
...and David White's. Let's not forget David White, because I hold him largely responsible for this wave.
Not because he's a gun administrator, but because his administration (along with Spark Sport) is responsible for me not being able to watch it. Presumably, once I can watch again, we'll return to dross.
So let me just say - Fuck you, David.
You would have been doing me a favour if you'd blocked my viewing during your playing era, but rural NZ is missing the equivalent of Sir Paddles' hey day.
Someone has been playing with David's stats on Wikipedia. They're not as good on Cricinfo!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_White_(New_Zealand_cricketer)
Spark sport is what.. $15/month. Lay off the Tasman bitter and you’d afford it no worries
Edit: that reminds me I need to cancel my subscription now that cricket has finished.
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I'm like @Chris-B in that I haven't watched any domestic cricket since Spark Sport took over apart from the FTA T20 games.
The tests in England will be overnight (NZT) so aren't at viewer friendly times, unless you are a night owl and a cricket tragic.
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@gunner said in Black Caps tour to England:
Spark sport is what.. $15/month. Lay off the Tasman bitter and you’d afford it no worries
I think about it like a cricket season pass for domestic cricket for a lazy hundy. I take that any day of the week.
Streaming's not for everyone - but it's the future. Satellite is dying like UHF.
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@gunner said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
Yeah he certainly didn’t have the career that was expected of him, debuting alongside Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart and Robin Smith who were all far better test players despite not dominating at first class level to the extent Hick did.
I’m just wondering how long we can ride this wave as fans and when/if the next generation of Hows/Redmonds/Papps/Marshall ( either or )Fultons comes in.......
...and David White's. Let's not forget David White, because I hold him largely responsible for this wave.
Not because he's a gun administrator, but because his administration (along with Spark Sport) is responsible for me not being able to watch it. Presumably, once I can watch again, we'll return to dross.
So let me just say - Fuck you, David.
You would have been doing me a favour if you'd blocked my viewing during your playing era, but rural NZ is missing the equivalent of Sir Paddles' hey day.
Someone has been playing with David's stats on Wikipedia. They're not as good on Cricinfo!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_White_(New_Zealand_cricketer)
Spark sport is what.. $15/month. Lay off the Tasman bitter and you’d afford it no worries
Edit: that reminds me I need to cancel my subscription now that cricket has finished.
Despite that I've been their customer for pretty much forever - much longer than they've been Spark - they won't provide me with sufficient bandwidth to run Spark Sport.
Despite that I've asked them repeatedly to send someone to test whether I can get VDSL - and that Chorus says I can get it. And despite that apparently the main South Island fibre optic cable line goes past my gate.
Nothing happens.
They are - in my opinion of course - a fucking useless company!
If anyone from Spark is reading this and thinks they can sort it out pm me - because your kids in the Philippines can't and it's seemingly impossible to get past them.
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@chris-b wireless 4g? Starlink? There are options and alternatives...
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@nzzp said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b wireless 4g? Starlink? There are options and alternatives...
From memory @Chris-B is in a bit of a black hole regarding connectivity
Chris, PM me your location again if you want. I'm not in the industry anymore but I do know my way around the maps including the rural ones that aren't easily located. Basically if the map shows something is available then place an order directly. Don't bother calling just order. That way the provisioning team has to tell you why the map is wrong. -
@bovidae said in Black Caps tour to England:
I'm like @Chris-B in that I haven't watched any domestic cricket since Spark Sport took over apart from the FTA T20 games.
The tests in England will be overnight (NZT) so aren't at viewer friendly times, unless you are a night owl and a cricket tragic.
Guilty.
Even though it’s our summer game there’s still something awesome about watching with a blanket and heater in the middle of our coldest period of the year.
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants against good opposition especially opening and from LHBs. I think the gamble is to keep Conway out.
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@crucial said in Black Caps tour to England:
From memory @Chris-B is in a bit of a black hole regarding connectivity
@chris-b If you can hang on for a few months, Starlink could seriously be an option for you.
It's a thousand bucks to get the gear, and $160/month after that. Then you can expect to get 80-150MB download, 30ish upload and unlimited data. For rural users, it's a godsend - goes with you to any house, anywhere with a view of the sky. Musk says speeds may go up as well - but who knows
