Black Caps tour to England
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 They won't drop Rossco for a debutant.
He made 70 vs Pakistan in the Boxing Day test and February last year made 109* and 73* vs India in ODIs.
Those latter ones are a year ago, but recent enough in these covid days.
If everyone is fit, it will be Blundell or Conway - probably dependent on their results in the lead in tests.
The real trick will be not to waste that preparation.
Yeah its very unlikely I’ll give you that......can we turn Nicholls into a test opener ? Justin Langer did a fine job of this......
Looking back on that amazing Aussie team of that era I think they shoehorned him there to fit in all the other talent. They dropped a bloody good opener in Slats and Tubbs had retired......so it was a ballsy move but Langer became part of one of the greatest pairs of all time so fair to say it paid off.
I don't think Nicholls has the game to open in tests. He's a middle order stroke-maker.
But Conway, like Langer, is effectively a specialist No.3 who could be promoted to open, without needing major modifications to his game. Main question for me is whether he's good enough and experienced enough to roll the dice over Blundell.
Some other suggestions that we bat him at 6, BJ at 7 and don't play either CDG or Santner.
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@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 They won't drop Rossco for a debutant.
He made 70 vs Pakistan in the Boxing Day test and February last year made 109* and 73* vs India in ODIs.
Those latter ones are a year ago, but recent enough in these covid days.
If everyone is fit, it will be Blundell or Conway - probably dependent on their results in the lead in tests.
The real trick will be not to waste that preparation.
Yeah its very unlikely I’ll give you that......can we turn Nicholls into a test opener ? Justin Langer did a fine job of this......
Looking back on that amazing Aussie team of that era I think they shoehorned him there to fit in all the other talent. They dropped a bloody good opener in Slats and Tubbs had retired......so it was a ballsy move but Langer became part of one of the greatest pairs of all time so fair to say it paid off.
I don't think Nicholls has the game to open in tests. He's a middle order stroke-maker.
But Conway, like Langer, is effectively a specialist No.3 who could be promoted to open, without needing major modifications to his game. Main question for me is whether he's good enough and experienced enough to roll the dice over Blundell.
Some other suggestions that we bat him at 6, BJ at 7 and don't play either CDG or Santner.
I’d be keen on that although it places a bit of strain on the four bowlers considering there’s not many options from 1-6 ( KW I’m looking at you, its not enough to be captain and our best batsman ever, you need to roll the arm over too )
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@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
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@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
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@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
No probables about it, just depends on the batting order and where everyone fits in. When I see some of the donkeys who’ve had longish test careers in other teams playing nowadays it’s a good problem to have. We don’t have that gutsy journeyman who averages in and around 30 like others do.
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@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
Yeah he certainly didn’t have the career that was expected of him, debuting alongside Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart and Robin Smith who were all far better test players despite not dominating at first class level to the extent Hick did.
I’m just wondering how long we can ride this wave as fans and when/if the next generation of Hows/Redmonds/Papps/Marshall ( either or )Fultons comes in.......
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
Yeah he certainly didn’t have the career that was expected of him, debuting alongside Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart and Robin Smith who were all far better test players despite not dominating at first class level to the extent Hick did.
I’m just wondering how long we can ride this wave as fans and when/if the next generation of Hows/Redmonds/Papps/Marshall ( either or )Fultons comes in.......
...and David White's. Let's not forget David White, because I hold him largely responsible for this wave.
Not because he's a gun administrator, but because his administration (along with Spark Sport) is responsible for me not being able to watch it. Presumably, once I can watch again, we'll return to dross.
So let me just say - Fuck you, David.
You would have been doing me a favour if you'd blocked my viewing during your playing era, but rural NZ is missing the equivalent of Sir Paddles' hey day.
Someone has been playing with David's stats on Wikipedia. They're not as good on Cricinfo!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_White_(New_Zealand_cricketer)
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
Yeah he certainly didn’t have the career that was expected of him, debuting alongside Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart and Robin Smith who were all far better test players despite not dominating at first class level to the extent Hick did.
I’m just wondering how long we can ride this wave as fans and when/if the next generation of Hows/Redmonds/Papps/Marshall ( either or )Fultons comes in.......
...and David White's. Let's not forget David White, because I hold him largely responsible for this wave.
Not because he's a gun administrator, but because his administration (along with Spark Sport) is responsible for me not being able to watch it. Presumably, once I can watch again, we'll return to dross.
So let me just say - Fuck you, David.
You would have been doing me a favour if you'd blocked my viewing during your playing era, but rural NZ is missing the equivalent of Sir Paddles' hey day.
Someone has been playing with David's stats on Wikipedia. They're not as good on Cricinfo!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_White_(New_Zealand_cricketer)
374 test matches in 9 days ? That’s a solid effort. He got some runs too.
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@mn5 12 wickets in 11 balls!
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Only averaging 135 after making 374 tons is a bit of a let down though. High score of 160 suggests he got to the milestone and lost focus.
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@cyclops His partnership with Spark Sport suggests he saw the cheque and lost focus!
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
I don't remember Hick excelling in ODIs then floundering at test level....
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Stead was on the TV tonight sowing the seed for Conway to replace Blundell.
"It's one of the options that's being considered," Stead says of the Blundell-Conway swap. "Tom Blundell's been, I guess, the incumbent there - with Tom Latham - for a while now and has done a great job for us in that role. "I don't think that's his natural role, though, and I think Tom recognises that as well. We just have to work through that. "Everyone's seen the success that [Conway's] had and we know he's a fine player - it's just working out what that looks like." -
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 Devon will be looking to run up the scores. Have our batting stocks ever been this strong? I'd say no
Even if Martin Donnelly, Glenn Turner, Martin Crowe and Bert Sutcliffe all played in the same era I’d still say no.
I really don't follow cricket that much these days, but I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
Used to be big debates about over-working quality players and carefully nurturing possibly talent - now it seems to be about which quality player not to play.
Good place to be.
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@canefan Well, your memory is clearly flawed.
Graeme averaged 65 after his first 3 ODIs and 11 after his first three tests!
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan Well, your memory is clearly flawed.
Graeme averaged 65 after his first 3 ODIs and 11 after his first three tests!
Clearly
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@canefan I was delighted to discover that!
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
Yeah he certainly didn’t have the career that was expected of him, debuting alongside Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart and Robin Smith who were all far better test players despite not dominating at first class level to the extent Hick did.
I’m just wondering how long we can ride this wave as fans and when/if the next generation of Hows/Redmonds/Papps/Marshall ( either or )Fultons comes in.......
...and David White's. Let's not forget David White, because I hold him largely responsible for this wave.
Not because he's a gun administrator, but because his administration (along with Spark Sport) is responsible for me not being able to watch it. Presumably, once I can watch again, we'll return to dross.
So let me just say - Fuck you, David.
You would have been doing me a favour if you'd blocked my viewing during your playing era, but rural NZ is missing the equivalent of Sir Paddles' hey day.
Someone has been playing with David's stats on Wikipedia. They're not as good on Cricinfo!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_White_(New_Zealand_cricketer)
Spark sport is what.. $15/month. Lay off the Tasman bitter and you’d afford it no worries
Edit: that reminds me I need to cancel my subscription now that cricket has finished.
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I'm like @Chris-B in that I haven't watched any domestic cricket since Spark Sport took over apart from the FTA T20 games.
The tests in England will be overnight (NZT) so aren't at viewer friendly times, unless you are a night owl and a cricket tragic.
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@gunner said in Black Caps tour to England:
Spark sport is what.. $15/month. Lay off the Tasman bitter and you’d afford it no worries
I think about it like a cricket season pass for domestic cricket for a lazy hundy. I take that any day of the week.
Streaming's not for everyone - but it's the future. Satellite is dying like UHF.
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@gunner said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@canefan said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b Conway is good enough, it's pretty obvious when you watch him he is a more talented bat than Blundell. Experience might be the problem at this stage.
He's also better than Nicholls IMHO. There will probably be room for all of them when Rosco retires
He appears to be.
You just have to be wary of Graeme Hick syndrome.
Yeah he certainly didn’t have the career that was expected of him, debuting alongside Graham Gooch, Alec Stewart and Robin Smith who were all far better test players despite not dominating at first class level to the extent Hick did.
I’m just wondering how long we can ride this wave as fans and when/if the next generation of Hows/Redmonds/Papps/Marshall ( either or )Fultons comes in.......
...and David White's. Let's not forget David White, because I hold him largely responsible for this wave.
Not because he's a gun administrator, but because his administration (along with Spark Sport) is responsible for me not being able to watch it. Presumably, once I can watch again, we'll return to dross.
So let me just say - Fuck you, David.
You would have been doing me a favour if you'd blocked my viewing during your playing era, but rural NZ is missing the equivalent of Sir Paddles' hey day.
Someone has been playing with David's stats on Wikipedia. They're not as good on Cricinfo!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_White_(New_Zealand_cricketer)
Spark sport is what.. $15/month. Lay off the Tasman bitter and you’d afford it no worries
Edit: that reminds me I need to cancel my subscription now that cricket has finished.
Despite that I've been their customer for pretty much forever - much longer than they've been Spark - they won't provide me with sufficient bandwidth to run Spark Sport.
Despite that I've asked them repeatedly to send someone to test whether I can get VDSL - and that Chorus says I can get it. And despite that apparently the main South Island fibre optic cable line goes past my gate.
Nothing happens.
They are - in my opinion of course - a fucking useless company!
If anyone from Spark is reading this and thinks they can sort it out pm me - because your kids in the Philippines can't and it's seemingly impossible to get past them.
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@chris-b wireless 4g? Starlink? There are options and alternatives...
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@nzzp said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b wireless 4g? Starlink? There are options and alternatives...
From memory @Chris-B is in a bit of a black hole regarding connectivity
Chris, PM me your location again if you want. I'm not in the industry anymore but I do know my way around the maps including the rural ones that aren't easily located. Basically if the map shows something is available then place an order directly. Don't bother calling just order. That way the provisioning team has to tell you why the map is wrong. -
@bovidae said in Black Caps tour to England:
I'm like @Chris-B in that I haven't watched any domestic cricket since Spark Sport took over apart from the FTA T20 games.
The tests in England will be overnight (NZT) so aren't at viewer friendly times, unless you are a night owl and a cricket tragic.
Guilty.
Even though it’s our summer game there’s still something awesome about watching with a blanket and heater in the middle of our coldest period of the year.
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@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants against good opposition especially opening and from LHBs. I think the gamble is to keep Conway out.
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@crucial said in Black Caps tour to England:
From memory @Chris-B is in a bit of a black hole regarding connectivity
@chris-b If you can hang on for a few months, Starlink could seriously be an option for you.
It's a thousand bucks to get the gear, and $160/month after that. Then you can expect to get 80-150MB download, 30ish upload and unlimited data. For rural users, it's a godsend - goes with you to any house, anywhere with a view of the sky. Musk says speeds may go up as well - but who knows
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@rotated said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants against good opposition especially opening and from LHBs. I think the gamble is to keep Conway out.
My worry with Conway is the fact we already have proven test performers like KW, Rossco, Latham and Nicholls, in other words out of those four blokes the lowest test average is 42 and that’s Latham and openers generally average a bit less. Only Oz and India can remotely match that batting unit. With the ebbs and flows of selections and class players only gracing a team for a wee while are we sure this guy is gonna fit in and dominate like we hope he will ?
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@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
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@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
Helped out Aus at times too. Mostly a generous bunch apart from a brief period of selfishness when they decided to be quite good, and kept guys like Steyn, De Villiers, etc instead of sharing nicely with others.
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@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@nzzp said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy if he is going to be squeezed in I would have him replace Nichols. Nichols rode his luck big time this season.
I agree, but it is a tough call.
really tough! Drop a bloke averaging 44?
http://www.cricmetric.com/playerstats.py?player=HM Nicholls&role=batsman
It's either him or Blundell.
Nichols was incredibly lucky this year. Didn't someone post a while ago what his scores would have looked like this year if all the chances he gave were taken? It wouldn't be pretty reading.
That would be me:
Nicholls this summer if he'd been out the first genuine chance he'd given: 7, 47, 6, 11, 3. Average 14.6.
Nicholls this summer if he'd been out the second genuine chance he'd given: 7, 47, 56, 11, 86. Average 41.4
Nicholls this summer after a million chances: 7, 174, 56, 11, 138*. Average 96.5.I hoped this would come in handy later cos it took me a solid 12 minutes.
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@rotated said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants against good opposition especially opening and from LHBs. I think the gamble is to keep Conway out.
My worry with Conway is the fact we already have proven test performers like KW, Rossco, Latham and Nicholls, in other words out of those four blokes the lowest test average is 42 and that’s Latham and openers generally average a bit less. Only Oz and India can remotely match that batting unit. With the ebbs and flows of selections and class players only gracing a team for a wee while are we sure this guy is gonna fit in and dominate like we hope he will ?
It is almost a carbon copy of the Kevin Pietersen situation before the 2005 Ashes - except Thorpe was a much better player than Blundell. Pietersen proved it in the ODIs immediately after eligibility but it was a big call to blood him in the most important series in years after the team had built so well under Vaughn. It was the right call.
In this case assuming it is the opening spot up for grabs it almost make the decision easier as there is always a chance of getting a peach early on.
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@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
Helped out Aus at times too. Mostly a generous bunch apart from a brief period of selfishness when they decided to be quite good, and kept guys like Steyn, De Villiers, etc instead of sharing nicely with others.
Pity they don't make Covid vaccines, then...
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@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
Helped out Aus at times too. Mostly a generous bunch apart from a brief period of selfishness when they decided to be quite good, and kept guys like Steyn, De Villiers, etc instead of sharing nicely with others.
Pity they don't make Covid vaccines, then...
They've been sharing their own strain...
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@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
Allan Lamb, Robin and Chris Smith, Tony Greig. They’ve been bloody good to us for a while.
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@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@mn5 said in Black Caps tour to England:
@snowy said in Black Caps tour to England:
@victor-meldrew said in Black Caps tour to England:
I can't recall a period when so many quality NZ players seemingly rolling off a conveyor belt.
We call it South Africa.
I'm taking the piss of course, but we do appreciate their help.
They gave England one of my favourite batsmen ever in Kevin Pietersen, Jonathan Trott went ok too.
Helped out Aus at times too. Mostly a generous bunch apart from a brief period of selfishness when they decided to be quite good, and kept guys like Steyn, De Villiers, etc instead of sharing nicely with others.
I wouldn’t have minded Jacques Kallis too. I get the feeling he might have forced Astle, McMillan or even Fleming onto the sidelines.
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@rotated said in Black Caps tour to England:
@chris-b said in Black Caps tour to England:
@crazy-horse Yeah - I worded that a bit inaccurately.
Whether the risk of a talented, slightly makeshift rookie test player in Conway outweighs the more limited, but more proven Blundell.
(In my mind, it probably does, because Blundell himself is a bit makeshift - and the Test Championship final is uncharted territory for everyone - including Kane, Rossco and Kohli!).
But, experience will trump lots of things, so I'm not onboard with playing Ravindra. I'd pick Santner (or maybe Ajaz) if we expect spinners to have some role, CdG if we can get away without a spinner.
Historically we have had some pretty good returns from test debutants ......
Ken Rutherford just got a shiver down his spine.
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@crucial said in Black Caps tour to England:
Ken Rutherford just got a shiver down his spine.
Didn't Marty have a bit of a rough start too?
