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Just finished watching Australia's Health Revolution on SBS with Michael Mosley, basically took a bunch of people with Type 2 Diabetes or those at risk, put them on a restricted diet eliminating most sugar and surprise surprise nearly everybody's health improved. Some stopped taking insulin, others stopped medication altogether.
To put into context, I think it said over 1 million people in Australia have Type 2 and it is linked to around 10% of all deaths in Australia.
The system is clearly broken, most people understand their health is tied to their diet yet things are just getting worse and worse. Our brains are hardwired to seek fat and sugar and once addicted to food it is very hard to stop the impulse and cravings.
Sugar hits our reward centres like any addictive drug and once hooked every billboard, store or commercial triggers that desire. I don't eat Maccas so their ads have no impact on me, my brother on the other hand will see the same ad and feel a craving for Maccas that often results in him buying.
Many people blame the persons lack of willpower and poor choices but there is far more to it than that. If you have a food addiction it's like any other addiction, it's just not that easy to stop. If it was easy why are so many people addicted to food?
I believe industry plays a massive role and I have no doubt their spin doctors and lobby groups have spent billions on changing the narrative to personal choice and responsibility. In my mind the food industry is akin to poker machines, they understand how addiction works and use all of their resources to get us hooked.
I'm curious to know what people think the answer is and should Govt be doing more to bring in policies to tax unhealthy food, change advertising rules etc
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@chimoaus some countries, like the UK, have installed sugar taxes. It is a very difficult problem. But as you say, if you equate over eating with things such as tobacco and liquor, it should be easy to justify a tax. It is interesting that people are willing to accept that you can develop dependency to drugs tobacco and alcohol, and yet over-eating is purely a problem of a lack of willpower
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The assumption here is taxing something changes behaviour.
People still smoke, even though it’s highly taxed. Much of reduction that was seen was educating people about the links to cancer.
Less of that was done with alcohol and there tones of drinking going on.
The key is education and reducing taxes on healthy food.
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Id sugar is taxed it should go directly to subsidies on healthy foods and nowhere else. When you I go shopping I often get commented on how 'good' my shop is, but it costs a fuck load more than going around and buying all the value shit junk food and highly processed crap
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Mandates. they're blockng up the health system. More mandates required.
But seriously, dont agree with taxes as it punishes healthy people who want to eat something.
potentially some kind of incentive system for weightloss. with a decent education system on nutrition.
people always talk about school teaching "life" cooking and nutrition should be a big part of year 6 to 10 where you basically learn nothing anyway
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@muddyriver said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
teaching "life" cooking and nutrition
well back in my day (mid 80s, haha old fluffybunny alert) in Form 1 & 2 (years 7 & 8 ) we used to have cooking classes, nutrition wasnt taught, but by the same token, was a damn sight less rubbish food available then too, alot more foods were less processed which helped I guess.
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@kirwan said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
The assumption here is taxing something changes behaviour.
People still smoke, even though it’s highly taxed. Much of reduction that was seen was educating people about the links to cancer.
Less of that was done with alcohol and there tones of drinking going on.
The key is education and reducing taxes on healthy food.
What they spend any tax on is a big thing. I agree it has to be spent on education
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People know, they don’t care.
Someone/something will take care of them if it goes tits up (or in the case of diabetes and obesity, tits down).
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Fuck your tax. Won't change behaviour, government will spend it on middle class welfare for re-election
Fresh food is ludicrously expensive in NZ. Chips are cheap as shit.
People are time poor. Money poor. Skill and knowledge poor.
While I agree something should be done I'm yet to see a solution that addresses the actual problem not the symptoms.
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You’re right. The sugar tax in the UK is little more than virtue signalling that has the bonus of raising a few quid. It has had fuck all effect.
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I have an interesting second hand experience on this one.
My dad has always had a beer belly. A proper one that really sticks out. He's around 6ft ish and peaked at around 125kg. The doctor had him at pre-diabetic from about this mid 40's, his father had it and he'd always just accepted it as an inevitability. Anyway, in his mid 50's, my Mum put her foot down - you are too big, you need to do something about it. So he turned a lot of things around, with he main thing being a large reduction in carbohydrates, and elimination of small things. He also had to reduce his beer intake a lot. Anyway, this worked well and he spent the next 12-13 years in reasonable shape, and remained pre diabetic. When he was about 70he moved into having diabetes. Age caught up. Or so we thought.
So he starts on the tablets, but he asks the dr what else he could do. The doc took him off carbs almost completely. He now has one slice of toast in the morning and that's it. He'd basically given up a beer over the previous few years and has never really had sweet tooth. Over the course of the next 18 months he went back to pre-diabetic and then went straight through that too, so now, at 73 years old, all his blood glucoses etc are completely normal. Not a sign of it, and he takes no medication.
It's been a real eye opener for all of us. So with the marathon over, and my motivation to train fallen off a cliff, I've decided at 44 to ditch the carbs as well. So we shall see how it goes. My main takes on the whole thing are that
- Carbohydrate intake is much more important than is made out
- It's almost never too late to turn it around
FWIW with sugar and fat taxes etc, I completely support them, but only on the proviso, it's recycled straight back into fresh foods. Fresh fruit/veg, leans meats, non-processed snacks should be an absolute bargain at the supermarket. Processed crap (confectionary, crisps (chips)) should be expensive, making them the treat that they should be.
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@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
- Carbohydrate intake is much more important than is made out
I know people who have basically cut out all carbs, especially complex carbs (bread, pasta), and the weight plummets. Fat is important but carbs seems to be much more so when it comes to weight loss. The hardest part is keeping them out, who doesn't want to sit back with a satisfying plate of pasta, baked goods or a pile of roast potatoes, especially in the depths of Winter?
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Cut down your portion sizes you fat fucks.
All groups are important. But balance is necessary.
Train lots? If you don't eat carbs you'll collapse in a heap. Do nothing? Maybe take on a lot less.
But it's really fucking hard to get that message across when carbs are cheap and fill you up.
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@chimoaus said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
The system is clearly broken, most people understand their health is tied to their diet yet things are just getting worse and worse. Our brains are hardwired to seek fat and sugar and once addicted to food it is very hard to stop the impulse and cravings.
@chimoaus it’s not clear what “system” you are talking about?
The health system? the tax system? the “food” industry system? Advertising system? or is it that society is broken?
Or could it be that people just make choices based on budget, circumstance eg convenience, time, lifestyle, culture) and desire/motivation.
In what I would call a fairly affluent society like Australia (generally speaking), where food outlets are only a short trip away, 24 hr supermarkets/stores and a seemingly endless supply of food at our fingertips - it no doubt requires a more informed choice if your desire is to “reduce fat” “stay lean and healthy”.
I guess it comes down to each individual if they see the above as a “problem” and that would probably shape one’s view if more government regulation / tax is needed.
Given what has played out in Australia with COVID, the less government intervention in the name of “health”, the better! I’m not saying there isn’t sensible regulation that currently exists, but I would be weary because let’s not forget that there is also a massive billion dollar industry “trying to keep us healthy” too….
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Should be a set text in school
'Eat real food; not too much; mostly vegetables'
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@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
FWIW with sugar and fat taxes etc, I completely support them, but only on the proviso, it's recycled straight back into fresh foods. Fresh fruit/veg, leans meats, non-processed snacks should be an absolute bargain at the supermarket. Processed crap (confectionary, crisps (chips)) should be expensive, making them the treat that they should be.
But that’s not the way economics works. The supermarkets know how much people will pay for fresh fruit and veges, it’s the amount they charge now more or less. That’s the point where supply no demand are in equilibrium. Economically, the only reasonable thing for the supermarkets to do is to continue to charge that equilibrium price. If you introduce a subsidy it should make no difference to the price, because it doesn’t change either the demand or the supply. It will therefore become a windfall profit (in fact, economic rent) for the supermarkets.
The fact that fruit and veges are variable in supply gives the supermarkets even more cover to do this. They can always justify maintaining their prices because of seasonality.
If you tax sugar to modify behaviour, so be it. Governments have been doing that forever. And it will reduce the demand for sugary products. But the subsidy side of the equation probably won’t increase uptake of fruit and veg. In fact there is a fair chance that poorer people will continue to buy sugary drinks and therefore have less to spend on veges.
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main problem with food costs in NZ is the duopoly of Foodstuffs and Woolworths.
Aldi is supposedly coming to NZ so hopefully they will put pressure on the existing ones to reduce margins, which are apparently some of the highest margins for supermarkets in the world.
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@taniwharugby said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
main problem with food costs in NZ is the duopoly of Foodstuffs and Woolworths.
Aldi is supposedly coming to NZ so hopefully they will put pressure on the existing ones to reduce margins, which are apparently some of the highest margins for supermarkets in the world.
Don’t bet on it mate. We have more supermarkets than you could poke a stick at and we still gave the s as me problems.
An over abundance of cheap shit.
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@act-crusader The system that allows billion-dollar companies to engineer products that get us addicted and ultimately lead to premature death and a range of health problems.
At its core food companies are creating products that sell and make them profit. Products that set off our reward systems are those loaded with sugar and fat, these products sell and make them the most profit. The nutritional benefit of these products is marginal at best.
We as a society are the ones that pay the costs of these products they are selling. Our taxes pay for the healthcare to care for sick people, disability for those too obese to work etc. We all experience the trauma from premature death and the mental health issues that often stem from being overweight.
Should these companies take more responsibility for the long term impacts of their products? should they have to pay some sort of tax to help pay for the damage their products do? If they didn't make these products people wouldn't get as sick.
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@jc Thanks for that, I guess from my point of view I buy a lot more blueberries when they are in season and cheap, if apples are cheap, I buy more. If avocados or bananas are priced high, I think twice before buying. I assume many lower income families must exclude fruit and veg based on price?
What is interesting is the pricing strategies of processed food, you can guarantee every trip to the supermarket some processed food will be half price or heavily discounted which clearly stimulates sales. At the end of each aisle there is some huge discount of coke etc. When was the last time you saw fruit and veg on the end of an aisle on sale?
How do we increase the demand for fruit and veg and decrease the demand for processed food?
Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?