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@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
Putting aside arguments against poor economic policies, education doesn't stack up either. The food pyramid has been around since forever. Kids spend a decade learning math and English, yet they're innumerate and illiterate.
But ultimately for me it comes down to the fact I love, I mean I fucking love, carbs. So if I can exercise self restraint, I fail to see why I should pay more because of those who don't.
Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food. And the overall point is that it shouldn't affect your shops. Whatever you pay more for the unhealthy stuff is offset by paying less for the healthy stuff.
If you buy / consume them in the right amount.
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@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
Putting aside arguments against poor economic policies, education doesn't stack up either. The food pyramid has been around since forever. Kids spend a decade learning math and English, yet they're innumerate and illiterate.
But ultimately for me it comes down to the fact I love, I mean I fucking love, carbs. So if I can exercise self restraint, I fail to see why I should pay more because of those who don't.
Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food.
I said what I liked in a point about self discipline. I didn't quote you nor did I mention you, but congrats on thinking it's about you.
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@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
Putting aside arguments against poor economic policies, education doesn't stack up either. The food pyramid has been around since forever. Kids spend a decade learning math and English, yet they're innumerate and illiterate.
But ultimately for me it comes down to the fact I love, I mean I fucking love, carbs. So if I can exercise self restraint, I fail to see why I should pay more because of those who don't.
Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food.
I said what I liked in a point about self discipline. I didn't quote you nor did I mention you, but congrats on thinking it's about you.
Um ok champ ….
Do you honestly get out of bed some days and think how much of a dick can I be?
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@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
Putting aside arguments against poor economic policies, education doesn't stack up either. The food pyramid has been around since forever. Kids spend a decade learning math and English, yet they're innumerate and illiterate.
But ultimately for me it comes down to the fact I love, I mean I fucking love, carbs. So if I can exercise self restraint, I fail to see why I should pay more because of those who don't.
Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food.
I said what I liked in a point about self discipline. I didn't quote you nor did I mention you, but congrats on thinking it's about you.
Um ok champ ….
Do you honestly get out of bed some days and think how much of a dick can I be?
Let's recap:
Antipodean: I like carbs but exercise self restraint.
MajorRage: Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food. -
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@majorrage said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
Putting aside arguments against poor economic policies, education doesn't stack up either. The food pyramid has been around since forever. Kids spend a decade learning math and English, yet they're innumerate and illiterate.
But ultimately for me it comes down to the fact I love, I mean I fucking love, carbs. So if I can exercise self restraint, I fail to see why I should pay more because of those who don't.
Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food.
I said what I liked in a point about self discipline. I didn't quote you nor did I mention you, but congrats on thinking it's about you.
Um ok champ ….
Do you honestly get out of bed some days and think how much of a dick can I be?
Let's recap:
Antipodean: I like carbs but exercise self restraint.
MajorRage: Well, I didn't say carbs. I said junk food.Jesus for a lawyer you are really bad at this.
I’m out. You “win”.
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@kirwan said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
The assumption here is taxing something changes behaviour.
People still smoke, even though it’s highly taxed. Much of reduction that was seen was educating people about the links to cancer.
Less of that was done with alcohol and there tones of drinking going on.
The key is education and reducing taxes on healthy food.
You've touched on a point that takes me back decades; a paper I read that modelled tax revenue on cigarettes in Australia. The point at which revenue no longer rose due to decrease in incidence of smoking was ~$25 a packet IIRC. An astronomical amount to consider paying for cigarettes at the time which was about $5 (adjusted in 2012 money). Now it's north of $40 (in 2012 money).
This was about a decade and a half after advertising on radio and tv was banned. Almost a decade has passed since advertising was banned completely (and an offence for any person to publish tobacco advertising on the internet or other electronic media) and introduction of plain packaging.
Despite all that effort, I would contend that the public attitude towards smoking has done more to decrease the incidence of smoking in the general population than punitive taxation has. That's what poor dietary habits would have to address in an attempt to overcome; decades of making it increasingly more difficult to purchase and out of sight until we as a society treated over eaters as lepers like we do with smokers: Here's your special spot away from everyone else, plain packaging, over 18 etc. No politician is going to attempt that IMO. Well, no sane politician.
It's that or tax them into non-existence. $20 a donut..?
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I think what irks me the most is how much choice and free will do we really have? We all like to think we can make well informed choices, but I can't help but feel it's not a level playing field.
These companies spend a small fortune engineering food that we can't resist, they then use a variety of marketing tricks to get us to buy, all the while spending a fortune influencing politicians, and the general public to avoid any heat coming back on them.
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@chimoaus I'm sympathetic to the argument that "fast food" shouldn't be advertised to kids, shouldn't be available in school canteens etc. That poses a difficult problem in determining what is the acceptable definition of "fast food".
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@antipodean said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
@kirwan said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
The assumption here is taxing something changes behaviour.
People still smoke, even though it’s highly taxed. Much of reduction that was seen was educating people about the links to cancer.
Less of that was done with alcohol and there tones of drinking going on.
The key is education and reducing taxes on healthy food.
You've touched on a point that takes me back decades; a paper I read that modelled tax revenue on cigarettes in Australia. The point at which revenue no longer rose due to decrease in incidence of smoking was ~$25 a packet IIRC. An astronomical amount to consider paying for cigarettes at the time which was about $5 (adjusted in 2012 money). Now it's north of $40 (in 2012 money).
This was about a decade and a half after advertising on radio and tv was banned. Almost a decade has passed since advertising was banned completely (and an offence for any person to publish tobacco advertising on the internet or other electronic media) and introduction of plain packaging.
Despite all that effort, I would contend that the public attitude towards smoking has done more to decrease the incidence of smoking in the general population than punitive taxation has. That's what poor dietary habits would have to address in an attempt to overcome; decades of making it increasingly more difficult to purchase and out of sight until we as a society treated over eaters as lepers like we do with smokers: Here's your special spot away from everyone else, plain packaging, over 18 etc. No politician is going to attempt that IMO. Well, no sane politician.
It's that or tax them into non-existence. $20 a donut..?
Can't speak to Australia, but NZ also regulated significantly, so we also banned advertising, but also smoking on public property, smoking inside at bars and restaurants, smoking in planes, raised the purchase age to 18, minimum pack sizes (shops can't sell individual cigarettes) etc. major tax increases, and after a while, it just gets hard and expensive. Advertising has been anti-smoking, and has also moved public attitudes by minimising new starters.
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@chimoaus said in Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?:
I think what irks me the most is how much choice and free will do we really have? We all like to think we can make well informed choices, but I can't help but feel it's not a level playing field.
These companies spend a small fortune engineering food that we can't resist, they then use a variety of marketing tricks to get us to buy, all the while spending a fortune influencing politicians, and the general public to avoid any heat coming back on them.
Bang on IMO - it's very difficult to resist everything forever, and genetics make it harder as some people just can't touch anything or they gain weight very quickly, while others don't have that problem.
Diabetes, Should Govt Do More?