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So $301m is to be spent on 13 new cycleways. The CCC is a fucking Muppet show lunatic asylum. They actually believe this will encourage people to cycle to work. I'm all for cutting down emissions, but this is a waste of money of biblical proportions. I'm not going to suggest the $301m be thrown at the new stadium as many might suspect, but I am going to suggest $50m should be as that's probably what'll be needed to get it built now to spec, and the other $250m goes into light rail links running from high density suburbs past a handful of major facilities and directly into the centre of the four avenues.
The light rail idea was floated pre quakes. From memory, at the time several lines were proposed, to run west to east past CU and Riccarton Mall, the hospital and into the city centre, another from marshlands way (it'd make sense now to start in Prestons) past The Palms, down Fitzgerald Ave and then into the city centre and I think there was a line from the east (Linwood or maybe Ferrymead into town).
I'd love to see this eventuate. I think it'd be heavily patronised if it can be made to work on the right arterials. I'd also have a main line from somewhere in Halswell all the way up Lincoln Rd and into the CBD. So basically a cross shape, intersecting near the Square and spanning across most of the city.
Off the main lines you might have a handful of 'branches' and short links in order to avoid having to travel all the way into the city from say Ilam to then get to Aidanfield or Wigram.
Anyone have a ball park idea what something like this may cost?
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@shark billions...it would cost billions
The new airport rail in melbourne it going to cost $15 billion and that only has one new station (and upgrade of another) and half of it is along and existing rail corridor and theyre only upgrading the existing things like power and signals...imagin doing everything from scratch
But, I worked on the rebuild and thought this at the time, huge sections of Riccarton Rd, columbo street, blenheim rd, morehouse ave and brougham street have had to be ripped up and re laid to replace underground utilities, so if they ever were going to start a light rail then after the earthquake was the time to do it. I always thought one in each direction (riccarton rd/blenheim, memorial drive to the airport - colombo to cranford - out to ferrymead and sumner) would have been a great start, get people interested and then build on it later
re the cycle way, and i said it in the stadium thread, i do think the cycles ways are not as much about convincing people to start cycling but more a response to the number of people that already do, my experience was chch hadf a pretty big cycling community, and you can see why, nice and flat etc
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@kiwiwomble I think Christchurch would be a great cycle city. Plenty of parkland already and fairly logical layout.
I see a lot of those cities in Europe with minimal vehicle traffic and think it looks rad.
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As for light rail, ask Sydney how that's going...
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light rail appears to be the biggest money sink hole ever invented. Not sure i have seen a project run on time, to cost, and provide the benefits.
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one of the best new proposals i have seen in melbourne, trackless, battery operated trams....thats called a bus
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@mariner4life said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
light rail appears to be the biggest money sink hole ever invented. Not sure i have seen a project run on time, to cost, and provide the benefits.
If the Croydon line is anything to go by it usually gets people around no faster than a bus. Too many stops, to slow to get to speed etc etc
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@crucial all jokes aside i do find the Melbourne system pretty good, enough dedicated lines to keep a pretty good schedule
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@mn5 said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
How bout a monorail ?
@nta said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
As for light rail, ask Sydney how that's going...
...see above
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@shark Light rail has none of the advantages and all the disadvantages of rail and busses.
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@antipodean if done right it does, doesn't have to deal with traffic to the same extent as buses and doesn't need the same land investment for dedicated rail corridors
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@kiwiwomble said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@antipodean if done right it does, doesn't have to deal with traffic to the same extent as buses and doesn't need the same land investment for dedicated rail corridors
Sure. Tell that to Canberra and Sydney. Light rail is like socialism - just never implemented properly.
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@antipodean said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@kiwiwomble said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@antipodean if done right it does, doesn't have to deal with traffic to the same extent as buses and doesn't need the same land investment for dedicated rail corridors
Sure. Tell that to Canberra and Sydney. Light rail is like socialism - just never implemented properly.
20th century solution.
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@antipodean i don't know a lot about canberra but sydney is largely down to jamming an overly ambitious project into a very dense, winding and hilly city retrospectively, plus a bit of COVID added in
Chch might have been retrospective, but a city famous for its wide, flat and straight roads that already has an admittedly touristy tram in the CBD...newer sections of melbourne are a much better comparison in my mind, grid network of roads etc and they work
Less light rails inherent faults and more people poorly implementation
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@kiwiwomble said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@crucial all jokes aside i do find the Melbourne system pretty good, enough dedicated lines to keep a pretty good schedule
Melbourne is great. It shows the benefit of not pulling up all that infrastructure like all the other cities did. Sydney's light rail seems to be just a mechanism to transfer huge amounts of money to Spanish company bank accounts. I don't think the Light Rail in Sydney is inherently a bad thing, it was needed out East, as those plastic lipped lot are never going to let real rail out that way, it was seemingly just badly contracted and implemented.
On the bus v tram, I have a mate who lives in Dulwich Hill, their tram line is down, re: @nta's article above, so he's had to bus the few times into the city and he's hating it due to the added time and stops.
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@kiwiwomble Those wide flat and straight roads are one of the absolutely key reasons dropping trams in the middle of a few of them makes sense in Chch. Ok I've certainly underestimated the cost of doing it, but logistically in comparison to other cities ala Sydney as an example, it's gotta be easier and cheaper.
Putting aside whether or not they're the ideal arterials to plonk trams on commercially, routes such as the airport to city centre via Memorial Ave, Fendalton Rd, Deans Ave, Riccarton Ave and Tuam St, and from the city centre via Moorhouse Ave, Ferry Rd and Main Rd to Sumner, would logistically be relatively straightforward as they're all wide enough to take trams while still retaining a lane in each direction.
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Others that scream "plonk a tram up my guts" include from Hornby Mall up Main Sth Rd, Blenheim Rd (ok a couple of obstacles to navigate there in an overbridge and the Sockburn roundabout), through the bit of land by PlaceMakers and onto Moorhouse Ave. Bazinga.
Then there's Prestons subdivision, maybe out via Mairehau Rd and into the CBD via Marshlands Rd, Hills Rd and Bealey Ave (unlike most of the others I've suggested, I wouldnt ruin Bealey Ave's picturesque central traffic island but run the trams either side of the road, if that can be made to work).
The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail)
