O Captain! My Captain!
-
In my experience as a player and a watcher, the best captains are either
The hardest fluffybunny in the team
The best player in the team, and the higher you go at least the best player in their positionEvery once in while, the stars align and the fella you follow is both
Unfortunately, Cane is neither
Discuss
-
@MiketheSnow pre neck injury Cane was tough as nails. He's made an amazing comeback, and I know you can't go half-ass into contact at any level, let alone international rugby. But I wonder if he's just lost that tiny bit of confidence and that's 'all' it took to drop him back into the pack (pun intended).
-
No one made more tackles in the last test. He also covered a lot of ground in attempting to clean up breaks.
Is he in career best form? No, but he's setting the scene for effort and hence a talisman for the team.
-
@antipodean kinda agree, but let's says he isn't captain, he will unlikely be picked, do they move Savea to 7 or slot DP at 7?
I think both those are likely to be better all round than how things are currently.
Also I have started being less convinced of jis leadership.
-
@antipodean said in O Captain! My Captain!:
No one made more tackles in the last test. He also covered a lot of ground in attempting to clean up breaks.
Is he in career best form? No, but he's setting the scene for effort and hence a talisman for the team.
He did have a good game. Missed the odd tackle, but might be a reflection of how hard he was pushing. Seemed to be first man to the breakdown many times. I can't help but wonder if him being there is holding back the potential for our back row to be more than it is right now
-
@Paekakboyz said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow pre neck injury Cane was tough as nails. He's made an amazing comeback, and I know you can't go half-ass into contact at any level, let alone international rugby. But I wonder if he's just lost that tiny bit of confidence and that's 'all' it took to drop him back into the pack (pun intended).
IMO he’s simply lost that extra bit of power that made him that hard as nails guy we sorely lacked in crucial games (eg England in 2019).
The endeavour is still there and he still gets about but his power in the contact has gone
-
AWJ has been an ordinary lock for probably 6 years but a good captain
Discuss
-
@antipodean said in O Captain! My Captain!:
No one made more tackles in the last test. He also covered a lot of ground in attempting to clean up breaks.
Is he in career best form? No, but he's setting the scene for effort and hence a talisman for the team.
Pretty much what Mils was saying on The Breakdown.
-
@MiketheSnow It shows a certain fortitide to come back from a broken neck and still be able to play Test footy. Nothing wrong with his toughness.
My issue with Sam Cane is that he is no longer New Zealand's best 7. Dalton Papali'i is.
-
@mariner4life said in O Captain! My Captain!:
AWJ has been an ordinary lock for probably 6 years but a good captain
Discuss
Comedy Gold
But I'll play
Better than ordinary lock, exceptional captain
What's interesting (to me at least) and which is working for Wales (except when shit referees YC him for nothing whatsoever) is starting with fitter and now better locks and bringing AWJ on at the business end of the match when clear heads and game management is needed.
-
Did our openside flanker really make the most amount of tackles on the team. Shit, that's a turnup for the books. I think I saw somewhere that Smith made the most passes. Cane also missed was it four or five? A few of those weren't attempts through desperation either just flat out bad misses. Can't fault his heart though or workrate.
Cane has always seemed to me a great lieutenant, but not a captain. Though the only other player I can think of to captain the team would be Whitelock.
If Cane can somehow recover his 2020 form I'd have him first down on the team sheet every day of the week.
-
I'm one of the very few fans of his and loves what he brings to the side. He does all the dirty work which frees up guys like Ardie to be used on attack. It sure is a thankless task the role he plays in the team. Put it this way, Ardie would not be as effective around the field without Cane there, and people suggesting that Ardie should just start at 7 are saying it with little thought as he would have to roll the sleeves up a lot more and play a much tighter role as he is virtually ineffective as a first contact defender and doesn't clean out rucks.
Never thought I'd say this, but I feel like Ardie and Cane together is slowly starting to work. A lot of turnovers that Ardie makes are off the back of Cane and Ioane/Frizell making first contact.
-
I have a lot of respect for Same Cane, but Peter O’Mahoney wasn’t wrong.
-
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@mariner4life said in O Captain! My Captain!:
AWJ has been an ordinary lock for probably 6 years but a good captain
Discuss
Comedy Gold
But I'll play
Better than ordinary lock, exceptional captain
What's interesting (to me at least) and which is working for Wales (except when shit referees YC him for nothing whatsoever) is starting with fitter and now better locks and bringing AWJ on at the business end of the match when clear heads and game management is needed.
Are you referring to this when you say "nothing whatsoever"?
Either Sir AWJ has the Force running through his body and can move the ball without touching it, or he got caught being a cheating fluffybunny 😉
-
@stodders what do the other camera angles show?
-
@antipodean said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@stodders what do the other camera angles show?
Either they'll show his forearm magically elongating 50 cm and not in line with his upper arm like this one, or they'll show that some cheeky Saffa fan has been mucking around with the video editing software again
-
@stodders said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@mariner4life said in O Captain! My Captain!:
AWJ has been an ordinary lock for probably 6 years but a good captain
Discuss
Comedy Gold
But I'll play
Better than ordinary lock, exceptional captain
What's interesting (to me at least) and which is working for Wales (except when shit referees YC him for nothing whatsoever) is starting with fitter and now better locks and bringing AWJ on at the business end of the match when clear heads and game management is needed.
Are you referring to this when you say "nothing whatsoever"?
Either Sir AWJ has the Force running through his body and can move the ball without touching it, or he got caught being a cheating fluffybunny 😉
We’ll just ignore the two prone Boks sealing off shall we?
-
Not a great deal.
AWJ wouldn't have had to grow an extra arm though. Can't see through Liam William's leg
I'd like to know if AWJ frequents grassy knolls 🤣
-
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@stodders said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@mariner4life said in O Captain! My Captain!:
AWJ has been an ordinary lock for probably 6 years but a good captain
Discuss
Comedy Gold
But I'll play
Better than ordinary lock, exceptional captain
What's interesting (to me at least) and which is working for Wales (except when shit referees YC him for nothing whatsoever) is starting with fitter and now better locks and bringing AWJ on at the business end of the match when clear heads and game management is needed.
Are you referring to this when you say "nothing whatsoever"?
Either Sir AWJ has the Force running through his body and can move the ball without touching it, or he got caught being a cheating fluffybunny 😉
We’ll just ignore the two prone Boks sealing off shall we?
On that you would have a point. As has been discussed, the Boks like to flop.
-
@Darth-Sader said in O Captain! My Captain!:
I have a lot of respect for Same Cane, but Peter O’Mahoney wasn’t wrong.
Peter O’Mahony’s dig was not specific to Cane though was it ? We are all just shit compared to Richie McCaw
-
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
The hardest fluffybunny in the team
What do you mean by hardest fluffybunny? There wouldn't be many, if any, in the team harder than Cane.
-
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@stodders said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@mariner4life said in O Captain! My Captain!:
AWJ has been an ordinary lock for probably 6 years but a good captain
Discuss
Comedy Gold
But I'll play
Better than ordinary lock, exceptional captain
What's interesting (to me at least) and which is working for Wales (except when shit referees YC him for nothing whatsoever) is starting with fitter and now better locks and bringing AWJ on at the business end of the match when clear heads and game management is needed.
Are you referring to this when you say "nothing whatsoever"?
Either Sir AWJ has the Force running through his body and can move the ball without touching it, or he got caught being a cheating fluffybunny 😉
We’ll just ignore the two prone Boks sealing off shall we?
Oh the persecution!
But yeah why not, if ABs are supposed to, then surely others can follow suit?
-
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@stodders said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@mariner4life said in O Captain! My Captain!:
AWJ has been an ordinary lock for probably 6 years but a good captain
Discuss
Comedy Gold
But I'll play
Better than ordinary lock, exceptional captain
What's interesting (to me at least) and which is working for Wales (except when shit referees YC him for nothing whatsoever) is starting with fitter and now better locks and bringing AWJ on at the business end of the match when clear heads and game management is needed.
Are you referring to this when you say "nothing whatsoever"?
Either Sir AWJ has the Force running through his body and can move the ball without touching it, or he got caught being a cheating fluffybunny 😉
We’ll just ignore the two prone Boks sealing off shall we?
Oh the persecution!
But yeah why not, if ABs are supposed to, then surely others can follow suit?
It’s fact
The ref was wrong
End of
Move on
That doesn’t diminish the possible tactical advantage of finishing with AWJ rather than starting with him
-
@Nepia said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
The hardest fluffybunny in the team
What do you mean by hardest fluffybunny? There wouldn't be many, if any, in the team harder than Cane.
The act first, ask questions later type of hard fluffybunny
The Judge Dredd of the team
There’s no doubting Cane’s ‘tough as teak’ physical play & dogged commitment, but as I commented in the match thread different characters with different captaincy skills would have reigned RM in on punishment of a good hiding
-
@MiketheSnow be a really good idea to admonish your ten who has completely changed the effectiveness of your backline in one week and is helping provide the targets and go forward the team has been yearning for.
-
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow be a really good idea to admonish your ten who has completely changed the effectiveness of your backline in one week and is helping provide the targets and go forward the team has been yearning for.
And who handed the ball to an opposition player....
-
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow be a really good idea to admonish your ten who has completely changed the effectiveness of your backline in one week and is helping provide the targets and go forward the team has been yearning for.
Your forwards did that, through continued hard graft.
And there’s nothing forwards hate more than their hard graft being wasted.
RM did some great things yesterday
But he also kept the game close when NZ should have been pulling away, either by running up his own arse or shipping shit ball to DH
DH with even less time & space unsurprisingly made massive errors
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow be a really good idea to admonish your ten who has completely changed the effectiveness of your backline in one week and is helping provide the targets and go forward the team has been yearning for.
And who handed the ball to an opposition player....
Yeah at least Beauden doesn't do that eh. Repeatedly. Behind the advantage line.
I hope we go with RM so that we can carry on losing, it really sucks seeing a functioning backline and players given space.
-
@MiketheSnow ok Mike, what do you think should have been said to Barrett the last 4 matches?
-
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow ok Mike, what do you think should have been said to Barrett the last 4 matches?
Exactly the same
And it was
He was dropped
-
Cane was bloody good in first half, even if he faded a bit in second. Fully justified selection.
He combined well with Frizell, as I've previously noted.
My hunch is that the most physical teams require a while to break down. Cane and Frizell were hard hitting and no frills in first half, with great back up from locks. That allowed Ardie to seagull, from which he can provide his flair.
Cane covered lots of ground, in particular to be in position to score his try.
That said, the way the game is going, forwards need to be swapped out by 55, including one loosie. With this team selection, Cane needs to be substituted at that point, engine drained. At that stage Ardie to 7 and Akira to 8.
In theory, Ardie can take over arm band at that point, but certainly not the way ABs have traditionally worked with captaincy.
-
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow ok Mike, what do you think should have been said to Barrett the last 4 matches?
Exactly the same
And it was
He was dropped
After 3 losses....I spy something different 😉
-
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@stodders said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@mariner4life said in O Captain! My Captain!:
AWJ has been an ordinary lock for probably 6 years but a good captain
Discuss
Comedy Gold
But I'll play
Better than ordinary lock, exceptional captain
What's interesting (to me at least) and which is working for Wales (except when shit referees YC him for nothing whatsoever) is starting with fitter and now better locks and bringing AWJ on at the business end of the match when clear heads and game management is needed.
Are you referring to this when you say "nothing whatsoever"?
Either Sir AWJ has the Force running through his body and can move the ball without touching it, or he got caught being a cheating fluffybunny 😉
We’ll just ignore the two prone Boks sealing off shall we?
Oh the persecution!
But yeah why not, if ABs are supposed to, then surely others can follow suit?
It’s fact
The ref was wrong
End of
Move on
That doesn’t diminish the possible tactical advantage of finishing with AWJ rather than starting with him
England 2007 called and want their game plan back
-
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@Nepia said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
The hardest fluffybunny in the team
What do you mean by hardest fluffybunny? There wouldn't be many, if any, in the team harder than Cane.
The act first, ask questions later type of hard fluffybunny
The Judge Dredd of the team
There’s no doubting Cane’s ‘tough as teak’ physical play & dogged commitment, but as I commented in the match thread different characters with different captaincy skills would have reigned RM in on punishment of a good hiding
We just don’t have those characters in the team anymore - they all like each other too much and want to be liked as well. The only one who could come close to the guy who gives everyone a spray would be Whitelock, but even then he’s probably not free enough from sin to be dishing out steely eyed glances to his teammates when they fuck up
-
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow be a really good idea to admonish your ten who has completely changed the effectiveness of your backline in one week and is helping provide the targets and go forward the team has been yearning for.
Both of these things can be true
-
@junior I was happy for him to be left to settle. First start in how long? Up against our age old foe and certainly achieving oodles more good than bad.
-
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow be a really good idea to admonish your ten who has completely changed the effectiveness of your backline in one week and is helping provide the targets and go forward the team has been yearning for.
And who handed the ball to an opposition player....
Yeah at least Beauden doesn't do that eh. Repeatedly. Behind the advantage line.
I hope we go with RM so that we can carry on losing, it really sucks seeing a functioning backline and players given space.
Repeatedly might be a stretch eh.
What I hope is that the forwards play like that again to actually get some go forward and lay a platform. It really sucks seeing that too.
-
@Toddy said in O Captain! My Captain!:
Did our openside flanker really make the most amount of tackles on the team. Shit, that's a turnup for the books. I think I saw somewhere that Smith made the most passes. Cane also missed was it four or five? A few of those weren't attempts through desperation either just flat out bad misses. Can't fault his heart though or workrate.
Cane has always seemed to me a great lieutenant, but not a captain. Though the only other player I can think of to captain the team would be Whitelock.
If Cane can somehow recover his 2020 form I'd have him first down on the team sheet every day of the week.
That is just so funny and so unobservant. Savea is quite obviously the heir apparent with full support from those around him. The players talk of him, Cane and Whitelock as their leaders and Whitelock seems quite happy to not take the on field arm-band.
If there's one guy who is going to scream follow me and jump over the trenches guns blazing it is Ardie. Has that ability to increase the energy even after playing his guts out for 60 minutes. -
@junior said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@stodders said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@mariner4life said in O Captain! My Captain!:
AWJ has been an ordinary lock for probably 6 years but a good captain
Discuss
Comedy Gold
But I'll play
Better than ordinary lock, exceptional captain
What's interesting (to me at least) and which is working for Wales (except when shit referees YC him for nothing whatsoever) is starting with fitter and now better locks and bringing AWJ on at the business end of the match when clear heads and game management is needed.
Are you referring to this when you say "nothing whatsoever"?
Either Sir AWJ has the Force running through his body and can move the ball without touching it, or he got caught being a cheating fluffybunny 😉
We’ll just ignore the two prone Boks sealing off shall we?
Oh the persecution!
But yeah why not, if ABs are supposed to, then surely others can follow suit?
It’s fact
The ref was wrong
End of
Move on
That doesn’t diminish the possible tactical advantage of finishing with AWJ rather than starting with him
England 2007 called and want their game plan back
They got to a final (for the second time), which is more than we’ve achieved to date
-
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@Bones said in O Captain! My Captain!:
@MiketheSnow ok Mike, what do you think should have been said to Barrett the last 4 matches?
Exactly the same
And it was
He was dropped
After 3 losses....I spy something different 😉
If he can back this performance up with the same but without the brain farts and showboating I’ll be the first to laud him
And if he doesn’t learn and costs you a match you’ll hear me loud and clear
