All Blacks v Argentina II
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The heat might be on, so they need to roll the dice.
De Groot, ST, Newell (or is he other side) for 65 mins
SW (c) Vaai
Akira, Sotutu, DP
Fakatava, Mounga
Tupaea, Reiko
Clarke, Jordie, JordanColes, lomax, Bower, SB, Savea, Smith, perofeta, Reece
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Akira, Sotutu, DP
Uh.... Savea bench? He's your best 7 option right now.
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@NTA maybe, but Savea could do with a spell too, has played some big minutes, while DP has played fuck all and if you throw a trio together with limited time, it would be better if that unit has played plenty together before....IMO of course.
We also know what he will bring, we need to see these other players under the blow torch, now.
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@taniwharugby I take your point about combinations.
However, the ABs have a recent record of losing a game to someone they really shouldn't (Wallabies, Pumas) and then stomping the shit out of them the next time out.
Los Pumas 25-15 ABs at Bankwest in 2020.
Two weeks later it was 38-zip in Newcastle - and Argentina had 2 draws with the Wallabies either side of that.So you could put in that back row combination and win the game, but it may not be due at all to the individuals or combinations involved.
The Pumas beat the ABs the way everyone beats the ABs: make your tackles, limit your mistakes, and keep the pressure on.
When one of those three things fails, you're going to get run over.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
The heat might be on, so they need to roll the dice.
De Groot, ST, Newell (or is he other side) for 65 mins
SW (c) Vaai
Akira, Sotutu, DP
Fakatava, Mounga
Tupaea, Reiko
Clarke, Jordie, JordanColes, lomax, Bower, SB, Savea, Smith, perofeta, Reece
To have a non Smith start wouldn't Christie be a safer option or is he injured?
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Akira, Sotutu, DP
Uh.... Savea bench? He's your best 7 option right now.
A player that hasn't played openside in years and doesn't hit rucks is now our best option..?
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@taniwharugby I take your point about combinations.
However, the ABs have a recent record of losing a game to someone they really shouldn't (Wallabies, Pumas) and then stomping the shit out of them the next time out.
Los Pumas 25-15 ABs at Bankwest in 2020.
Two weeks later it was 38-zip in Newcastle - and Argentina had 2 draws with the Wallabies either side of that.So you could put in that back row combination and win the game, but it may not be due at all to the individuals or combinations involved.
The Pumas beat the ABs the way everyone beats the ABs: make your tackles, limit your mistakes, and keep the pressure on.
When one of those three things fails, you're going to get run over.
I'd have agreed with you until I watched the third Irish test.
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The fact that they've brought Retallick back into the squad suggests he'll be in the 23. Vaa'i didn't even get off the bench in Chch.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Vaa'i didn't even get off the bench in Chch
it's quite apparent that there are an enormous number of players in teh squad that they have not faith in.
and some they appear to have far too much misplaced faith in
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@Bovidae which just proves they are grasping at straws...Brodie is a shadow of his former self, yet we have 1 fit young lock in the squad and he cant get a look in.
Einstein had a quote about what we are doing....
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@mariner4life You've got to wonder if half the squad do not share the faith in Foster that the undroppables do ...
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Vaa'i didn't even get off the bench in Chch
it's quite apparent that there are an enormous number of players in teh squad that they have not faith in.
and some they appear to have far too much misplaced faith in
When under pressure coaches usually revert to selecting their experienced players. Vaa'i started in a test against Arg last year so it's not like he hasn't been there before.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Bovidae which just proves they are grasping at straws...Brodie is a shadow of his former self, yet we have 1 fit young lock in the squad and he cant get a look in.
Einstein had a quote about what we are doing....
"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them"?
Or is it the one I test out every Friday?
"It should be possible to explain the laws of physics to a barmaid." -
@nostrildamus brilliant work sir.
To go to Feynman on game plans:
It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it’s wrong -
I expect us to win whoever we put out. One obvious pattern over the past two years is that the coaching/senior players solve last week's problems for the next game.
If the Argies can offer something new (unlikely) then that could throw a spanner in the works.
Currently we are building a team that will lose a knockout game, can't string two good games together, let alone the three you need to win a World Cup.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nostrildamus brilliant work sir.
To go to Feynman on game plans:
It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it’s wrongFeynman would have to be on my list of ideal dinner companions in the afterlife (where all the rugby is free to air).
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@nostrildamus assume that is a Rugby history channel playing AB rugby pre-2016?
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@nostrildamus assume that is a Rugby history channel playing AB rugby pre-2016?
Just watching the Mehrts video highlights someone posted and yes, the rugby just looked so much better (for some reason his tackling doesn't seem to appear that often in the highlights video)...
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@taniwharugby I'd said that's more panicking than rolling the dice.
I didn't read one person last week who wasn't saying keep the team that beat the Boks, it's all about continuity, Foster's worst problem is chopping and changing.....
I'd keep the tight 5 - chuck in some any/one other than Taylor for the bench.
The loosies I would look at changing. Sotutu should come in but how long since he had game time? We need to select a loose forward trio not just the three players that we want to run on. Personally I think Cane gets a lot of shit because he'sdoing a job others aren't but I think he should get rested. Savea to the bench.
I'd leave the backs as they are evn though I'm not sold on any of them really, but they get told it's last drink at the saloon and make them do what worked in SAII i.e. abandon the flat attack BS
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@taniwharugby yuk! no.
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I didn't read one person last week who wasn't saying keep the team that beat the Boks, it's all about continuity, Foster's worst problem is chopping and changing.....
I expect people were sitting with baited breath to see if we could back up Ellis PArk...turned out we couldnt.
At some point we need to realise what we are doing aint working and start building for the future, some of the younger guys need to be given a chance to step up, while giving some (Savea) a rest.
Problem is, Fozzie has dug himself a big ol' hole, and I expect he is hoping his tried and tested (and failed for the past 10 months) will pull through and give him some breathing space.
Whatever way he plays it, something is bound to go wrong anyway!
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Akira, Sotutu, DP
Uh.... Savea bench? He's your best 7 option right now.
He's barely played 7 in years, and quite frankly I think the style he plays now isn't really a 7 style. Plus, he's out best 2nd half impact forward, be better having him do it fresh than after a first half
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Cane will be fresh after the rest he got last week 😎
I guess with Retallick being fit we will see….
4- Retallick
5 - Whitelock
6 - S. Barrett😀
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@Nepia One of our (many) issues is that no one really plays the seven game - or the eight - or the fucking six for shits sake.
It is one reason why it is difficult to pick the loosies or even evaluate their performances. Is Cane shit because he's not a fetcher or is he buried in the tight covering for others. If so is it because the others are shirking or following instructions.
You can make similar arguments for all three positions
Oh for the good old days of a fast pilfering link player, a tall enforcer type that scares the opposition and can make good metres and another lineout option who ranges wider as a sort of blend of the first two. All three of whom hit hard in the tackle and empty their tanks.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Akira, Sotutu, DP
Uh.... Savea bench? He's your best 7 option right now.
He's barely played 7 in years, and quite frankly I think the style he plays now isn't really a 7 style. Plus, he's out best 2nd half impact forward, be better having him do it fresh than after a first half
I thought last years match against the Argies with him at 7, Blackadder at 6 and Sotutu at 8 was pretty effective.
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Tbh I'm past caring who they pick and am more concerned about how they get told to play. You'd think the players in the squad should be good enough to beat Argentina, but who knows these days.
Shit, it's so goddam depressing.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
That's depressing reading. You wouldn't think they'd need to lose 6 out of their last 8 matches to figure this stuff out.
Expecting to see Beauden & Retallick back. I can't say either fill me with much excitement.
Hoping to see Hoskins. 6th time might be the charm.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Akira, Sotutu, DP
Uh.... Savea bench? He's your best 7 option right now.
He's barely played 7 in years, and quite frankly I think the style he plays now isn't really a 7 style. Plus, he's out best 2nd half impact forward, be better having him do it fresh than after a first half
I thought last years match against the Argies with him at 7, Blackadder at 6 and Sotutu at 8 was pretty effective.
Jaysus, I can barely remember trios picked from 12 days ago let alone 12 months ago.
Sadly no chance of that trio again for a while with Blackadder injured and Sotutu the non playing squad member.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Akira, Sotutu, DP
Uh.... Savea bench? He's your best 7 option right now.
He's barely played 7 in years, and quite frankly I think the style he plays now isn't really a 7 style. Plus, he's out best 2nd half impact forward, be better having him do it fresh than after a first half
I thought last years match against the Argies with him at 7, Blackadder at 6 and Sotutu at 8 was pretty effective.
Jaysus, I can barely remember trios picked from 12 days ago let alone 12 months ago.
Sadly no chance of that trio again for a while with Blackadder injured and Sotutu the non playing squad member.
Me neither but I have vivid memories of JC/Richie/Rodders and then JK/Richie/Read.
I definitely have Rugby alzheimers.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Akira, Sotutu, DP
Uh.... Savea bench? He's your best 7 option right now.
He's barely played 7 in years, and quite frankly I think the style he plays now isn't really a 7 style. Plus, he's out best 2nd half impact forward, be better having him do it fresh than after a first half
I thought last years match against the Argies with him at 7, Blackadder at 6 and Sotutu at 8 was pretty effective.
Jaysus, I can barely remember trios picked from 12 days ago let alone 12 months ago.
Sadly no chance of that trio again for a while with Blackadder injured and Sotutu the non playing squad member.
Me neither but I have vivid memories of JC/Richie/Rodders and then JK/Richie/Read.
I definitely have Rugby alzheimers.
I also have vivid memories of MJ/AJ/Buck and Kronfeld/MJ/Zinny.
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Tremaine, Kirkpatrick, Lochore
Mourie, Kirkpatrick, Knight,
Mourie, Shaw, MextedHave our loosies ever been this ineffective?
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@dogmeat said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Tremaine, Kirkpatrick, Lochore
Mourie, Kirkpatrick, Knight,
Mourie, Shaw, MextedHave our loosies ever been this ineffective?
Going back to those loosies is a bit strange, they played such a different tyle then. There was no turnover ball almost ever in those days because you could not put hands near ball on ground, and loosies main job was to blow people over and run with ball. Lohore's great strength was actually really mainly his covering defence work. Such a different game then.
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@Dan54 The examples were just following on from earlier posts. Sure the game has evolved but we have always evolved with it and produced world class trio's. Until now.
As for turnover ball - there was this thing called rucking....
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7 and 8 are the only 2 Argies I'd take in a combined team.
That's our captain, and our replacement captain and apparently only certainty in a world XV...
Our loosies are shit. -
@Tim said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Pleased he's back and fit, but, jeez that was a hard read - almost cringeworthy in places. I know it's only one interview, but it was so buzzword & cliche-ridden he sounded like a team leader in a failing call centre.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
The heat might be on, so they need to roll the dice.
De Groot, ST, Newell (or is he other side) for 65 mins
SW (c) Vaai
Akira, Sotutu, DP
Fakatava, Mounga
Tupaea, Reiko
Clarke, Jordie, JordanColes, lomax, Bower, SB, Savea, Smith, perofeta, Reece
Lomax > Newell, at this time. This will probably change for the next WC or even before. Newell is currently ineffective in the mauls where he seems a bit lost. Lomax is also better at cleaning rucks. Scrummaging is OK for both of them.
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@Victor-Meldrew Yeah that interview made me feel sick. Foster still finding his feet despite a billion fucking years in the ABs and now be head coach. WTAF?
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@Machpants said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Victor-Meldrew Yeah that interview made me feel sick. Foster still finding his feet despite a billion fucking years in the ABs and now be head coach. WTAF?
Think he was talking about Schmidt's input and finding their collective feet more than anything else - and the tension between Schmidt's ball-retention approach and the AB's run-the-ball "DNA". Sounds like a bit of a culture-change or culture-clash issue. Surprised to hear that from a 106 Test veteran, though, and thought he'd be a bit more circumspect.
If there's an issue there it needs to be sorted out pronto otherwise Pumas II could look like Pumas I
