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    Loose Trio for Bled 1?

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    • BartMan
      BartMan last edited by

      Thoughts? I'll post mine at Smoko, but suffice to say I DON'T want Sotutu and Akira at 8 and 6....

      nzzp 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • P
        pakman last edited by pakman

        The AB loosies seemed to work well on Saturday.

        That said, on paper it seeems we played a 7, a 6.5 and a 6, so have been reflecting why?

        Cane and Frizell have form in working well. Frizell runs straight and seems to clean well. Cane on Saturday was the abrasive tackler every trio needs.

        It's as if we're playing two 6s and means that, although Savea packs at 8 in scrums, he can roam like a 7 and not required to clean much.

        Only issue about the combo is that it puts a lot of weight on Frizell's shoulders at lineout time, which might be an issue against opponents stronger there than Pumas.

        I'm starting to think Ardie and Akira only work together against middleweight packs or late on when game breaks up.

        So with Ardie out, things seem well placed for Hoskins to come in.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • Dan54
          Dan54 last edited by

          We might get them Bart, but personally I would like Jacobson at 6 or 8. I really like his style of play, and much will depend on how I think Ryan sees the mix. I haven't been real impressed with Sotutu all year, and don't anyone get upset, just he hasn't really been dominating at super or NPC in my eyes.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
          • R
            reprobate last edited by

            I like Sotutu. He's got the best ball skills out of any loosie in the country, and has the potential to be an amazing link player. Given how we love to have forwards clogging up our back line, having one who can actually pass has some appeal.
            What he's not though is a big munter in the Collins/Kaino/Frizzel style, so you need one of those alongside him for balance. And that's not Ioane either, despite his size and strength.
            I guess that's historically a lot less important against Aussie, as far as this game goes.

            Dan54 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • Dan54
              Dan54 @reprobate last edited by

              @reprobate said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

              I like Sotutu. He's got the best ball skills out of any loosie in the country, and has the potential to be an amazing link player. Given how we love to have forwards clogging up our back line, having one who can actually pass has some appeal.
              What he's not though is a big munter in the Collins/Kaino/Frizzel style, so you need one of those alongside him for balance. And that's not Ioane either, despite his size and strength.
              I guess that's historically a lot less important against Aussie, as far as this game goes.

              Not a hater or anything, just not sure his style transfers to test rugby, and think if they start him, I personally would have either Jacobson or barrett at 6, more Frizell style than a slightly looser Akira?

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
              • Daffy Jaffy
                Daffy Jaffy last edited by

                From this article re: Sotutu -

                Oliver Hopkinsย ย /ย ย Aug 17, 2022

                Breaking it Down: 'Carries' | The Analyst

                Breaking it Down: 'Carries' | The Analyst

                โ€˜Breaking It Downโ€™ goes beneath the surface of some of Opta's most important rugby metrics. This week, we're looking at carries.

                54898db9-ac77-4e72-9a46-f8a32365a5b7-image.png

                Crucial 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                • Machpants
                  Machpants last edited by

                  I expect Barrett, Cane, Sotutu

                  JK Crucial 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                  • JK
                    JK @Machpants last edited by

                    @Machpants said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                    I expect Barrett, Cane, Sotutu

                    Same.

                    Really would like to see Dalton get some more game time though

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Crucial
                      Crucial @Daffy Jaffy last edited by

                      @Daffy-Jaffy thanks for posting that. Like all stats, you can make lots up from them.
                      I was interested that they didn't look at 'post contact metres' as that is a good indicator of pushing the defence onto the back foot eg Sami T made an average of around 2m post contact on his carries the other night.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • Crucial
                        Crucial @Machpants last edited by

                        @Machpants said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                        I expect Barrett, Cane, Sotutu

                        So do I. Sotutu is the most 'like for like' for Savea I would think and Scooter has already been used at 6 as next cab from Frizell.
                        Jacobsen is the other option at 6 for me but I guess that would depend greatly on how quickly he gels at training.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                        • KiwiMurph
                          KiwiMurph last edited by KiwiMurph

                          6 for Melbourne is an interesting one.

                          Barrett seems the favoured choice but the speed of the game may not suit him (if the roof is closed + Wallaby style).

                          Akira went well vs Wallabies last year but doesn't have the greatest combo with Sotutu despite their franchise connection.

                          Jacobson gives you more mobility but hasn't been with the team and is probably better suited to 8.

                          Papali'i is better suited to 7 and really struggled to impose himself at 6 vs Ireland (also under the roof).

                          I think Sotutu has to be at 8 otherwise what the hell is he doing in the squad (plus he's earnt it after a magnificent season for the Blues)

                          ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                          • ACT Crusader
                            ACT Crusader @KiwiMurph last edited by

                            @KiwiMurph said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                            6 for Melbourne is an interesting one.

                            Barrett seems the favoured choice but the speed of the game may not suit him (if the roof is closed + Wallaby style).

                            Akira went well vs Wallabies last year but doesn't have the greatest combo with Sotutu despite their franchise connection.

                            Jacobson gives you more mobility but hasn't been with the team and is probably better suited to 8.

                            Papali'i is better suited to 7 and really struggled to impose himself at 6 vs Ireland (also under the roof).

                            I think Sotutu has to be at 8 otherwise what the hell is he doing in the squad (plus he's earnt it after a magnificent season for the Blues)

                            The Wallabies are basically playing two locks plus a lock/6 in their back 5. Holloway is not the quickest guy.

                            Valentini does a lot of grunt work for this Wallaby side. McReight is a genuine speedster type though. Almost a Michael Hooper clone.

                            I donโ€™t think speed will be much of an issue. OZ ball runners have had an issue of isolating themselves as well.

                            KiwiMurph 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • KiwiMurph
                              KiwiMurph @ACT Crusader last edited by

                              @ACT-Crusader Yeah I guess i'm anticipating Wallabies mixing up their loose forward trio and giving someone like Leota or Samu a crack at 6. Holloway was pretty poor on the weekend I thought.

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Stargazer
                                Stargazer last edited by

                                So is Tupou Vaa'i now only seen as a lock, or also an option for 6?

                                Crucial 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • nzzp
                                  nzzp @BartMan last edited by

                                  @BartMan said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                  Thoughts? I'll post mine at Smoko, but suffice to say I DON'T want Sotutu and Akira at 8 and 6....

                                  Went back to the 3 Bleds from last year.

                                  Akira got a lot of love in there - MOTM in 2, and in the mix in 1 and 3.

                                  https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4824/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-iii

                                  https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4792/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-ii

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                  • No Quarter
                                    No Quarter last edited by

                                    I'd be 100% starting Akira, he's been good this year and carved them up last year. Akira - Cane - Sotutu makes good sense against the Wallabies.

                                    Kiwiwomble ACT Crusader 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 9
                                    • Kiwiwomble
                                      Kiwiwomble @No Quarter last edited by

                                      @No-Quarter me too, and i think sotutu and Akira's time at the blues would make up a bit for not having played over the last few weeks...but now people have reminded me of barrett being seen as a 6...i think that it probably the most likely

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • Crucial
                                        Crucial @Stargazer last edited by

                                        @Stargazer said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                        So is Tupou Vaa'i now only seen as a lock, or also an option for 6?

                                        I think that for the ABs he was only ever seen as a lock that could slide into 6 in an emergency. He only really played a bit at 6 for the Chiefs due to injuries even if he did play quite well and showed promise there if he wanted to reinvent himself.

                                        @ACT-Crusader good point about Valentini doing much of the carry work. Maybe Jacobsen is more of an option than I thought if the role of the 6 will be to stop their 8 in his tracks. Jacobsen has a hard and accurate shoulder.
                                        Ironically the work on that Foster gave him was to get his wide game going but maybe they have had a re-think and want a tight-loosie now. I think he fits that bill.

                                        I don't think Akira is the right guy against Valentini. He will bring him down but he has more of a wrestle tackle which will allow momentum.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • ACT Crusader
                                          ACT Crusader @No Quarter last edited by

                                          @No-Quarter said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                          I'd be 100% starting Akira, he's been good this year and carved them up last year. Akira - Cane - Sotutu makes good sense against the Wallabies.

                                          I think heโ€™s been a bit up and down (like a few others). Some very good and some where heโ€™s been less prominent.

                                          @nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye ๐Ÿ˜‰

                                          nzzp 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • nzzp
                                            nzzp @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                            @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                            @nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye ๐Ÿ˜‰

                                            Stats, eh ๐Ÿ˜›

                                            Just pointing out that Akira played really well against the Wobs last year. Unlike Codie, his form hasn't fallen off a cliff.

                                            There's a part of me that thinks if you don't play him and /or Sotutu, why pick them? I'd have no issues with a Sotutu/Cane/Ioane trio ... but some get concerned.

                                            Ultimately, the tight 5 will be more important than who we field in the loosies. Having two genuine lineout options in the loose is nice though

                                            ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                            • ACT Crusader
                                              ACT Crusader @nzzp last edited by

                                              @nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                              @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                              @nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye ๐Ÿ˜‰

                                              Stats, eh ๐Ÿ˜›

                                              Just pointing out that Akira played really well against the Wobs last year. Unlike Codie, his form hasn't fallen off a cliff.

                                              There's a part of me that thinks if you don't play him and /or Sotutu, why pick them? I'd have no issues with a Sotutu/Cane/Ioane trio ... but some get concerned.

                                              Ultimately, the tight 5 will be more important than who we field in the loosies. Having two genuine lineout options in the loose is nice though

                                              Given Cane and Savea were in our top 3 or 4 players in the last test, Iโ€™d say the loose forwards are very important to our success or otherwise.

                                              The Argies loose forwards were dominant in their win against the Aussies.

                                              Iโ€™d prefer Ioane off the bench if Sotutu is a starter.

                                              nzzp 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                              • nzzp
                                                nzzp @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                @nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                @nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye ๐Ÿ˜‰

                                                Stats, eh ๐Ÿ˜›

                                                Just pointing out that Akira played really well against the Wobs last year. Unlike Codie, his form hasn't fallen off a cliff.

                                                There's a part of me that thinks if you don't play him and /or Sotutu, why pick them? I'd have no issues with a Sotutu/Cane/Ioane trio ... but some get concerned.

                                                Ultimately, the tight 5 will be more important than who we field in the loosies. Having two genuine lineout options in the loose is nice though

                                                Given Cane and Savea were in our top 3 or 4 players in the last test, Iโ€™d say the loose forwards are very important to our success or otherwise.

                                                The Argies loose forwards were dominant in their win against the Aussies.

                                                Iโ€™d prefer Ioane off the bench if Sotutu is a starter.

                                                you don't think the tight 5 work enables the loosies to shine? Because I do - it starts up front, and gives the rest of the team the time and space to look awesome. Rugby's good like that ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                • P
                                                  ploughboy last edited by

                                                  i wouldnt mind seeing a cane/ioane/jacobson trio

                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                  • Canes4life
                                                    Canes4life last edited by

                                                    After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu

                                                    MN5 M 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                    • MN5
                                                      MN5 @Canes4life last edited by MN5

                                                      @Canes4life said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                      After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu

                                                      Thatโ€™s not enough, you need to throw in controversial opinions that totally contradicts anything that you would have read.

                                                      canefan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                      • canefan
                                                        canefan @MN5 last edited by canefan

                                                        @MN5 said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                        @Canes4life said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                        After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu

                                                        Thatโ€™s not enough, you need to throw in controversial opinions that totally contradicts anything that you would have read.

                                                        Or not read the thread at all and make an unqualified pronouncement

                                                        Bones 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                        • Bones
                                                          Bones @canefan last edited by

                                                          @canefan said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                          @MN5 said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                          @Canes4life said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                          After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu

                                                          Thatโ€™s not enough, you need to throw in controversial opinions that totally contradicts anything that you would have read.

                                                          Or not read the thread at all and make an unqualified pronouncement

                                                          Samisoni to 6, he's everything we're asking for there. Taylor to start.

                                                          Crazy Horse No Quarter 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                          • Crazy Horse
                                                            Crazy Horse @Bones last edited by

                                                            @Bones said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                            @canefan said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                            @MN5 said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                            @Canes4life said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                            After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu

                                                            Thatโ€™s not enough, you need to throw in controversial opinions that totally contradicts anything that you would have read.

                                                            Or not read the thread at all and make an unqualified pronouncement

                                                            Samisoni to 6, he's everything we're asking for there. Taylor to start.

                                                            Too short. Should be a 12.

                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                            • No Quarter
                                                              No Quarter @Bones last edited by

                                                              @Bones said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                              @canefan said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                              @MN5 said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                              @Canes4life said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                              After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu

                                                              Thatโ€™s not enough, you need to throw in controversial opinions that totally contradicts anything that you would have read.

                                                              Or not read the thread at all and make an unqualified pronouncement

                                                              Samisoni to 6, he's everything we're asking for there. Taylor to start.

                                                              Can you imagine Samisoni off the back of the scrum with a head of steam up? Un-fucking-stoppable

                                                              Bovidae 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                              • Bovidae
                                                                Bovidae @No Quarter last edited by

                                                                @No-Quarter said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                Can you imagine Samisoni off the back of the scrum with a head of steam up? Un-fucking-stoppable

                                                                When I watched him play for St Paul's at 1st XV level he did alternate between hooker and no.8. ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                                P 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                                                • P
                                                                  pakman @Bovidae last edited by

                                                                  @Bovidae said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                  @No-Quarter said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                  Can you imagine Samisoni off the back of the scrum with a head of steam up? Un-fucking-stoppable

                                                                  When I watched him play for St Paul's at 1st XV level he did alternate between hooker and no.8. ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                                  ๐Ÿ˜ณ

                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                  • ACT Crusader
                                                                    ACT Crusader @nzzp last edited by

                                                                    @nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                    @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                    @nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                    @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                    @nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye ๐Ÿ˜‰

                                                                    Stats, eh ๐Ÿ˜›

                                                                    Just pointing out that Akira played really well against the Wobs last year. Unlike Codie, his form hasn't fallen off a cliff.

                                                                    There's a part of me that thinks if you don't play him and /or Sotutu, why pick them? I'd have no issues with a Sotutu/Cane/Ioane trio ... but some get concerned.

                                                                    Ultimately, the tight 5 will be more important than who we field in the loosies. Having two genuine lineout options in the loose is nice though

                                                                    Given Cane and Savea were in our top 3 or 4 players in the last test, Iโ€™d say the loose forwards are very important to our success or otherwise.

                                                                    The Argies loose forwards were dominant in their win against the Aussies.

                                                                    Iโ€™d prefer Ioane off the bench if Sotutu is a starter.

                                                                    you don't think the tight 5 work enables the loosies to shine? Because I do - it starts up front, and gives the rest of the team the time and space to look awesome. Rugby's good like that ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                                    I think the game has evolved a bit more than that old adage. I think all forwards are there to provide the platform to provide space for their team mates to operate in. Just as tight 5 players are required to become distributors/ball players, so they arenโ€™t always in the trenches. A bit of variation from our tight forwards is pretty important. Loosies in the trenches plus playing wider. Just about getting the balance right.

                                                                    MN5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                    • Tordah
                                                                      Tordah last edited by

                                                                      Kaino, McCaw, Read.

                                                                      ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                      • MN5
                                                                        MN5 @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                                        @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                        @nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                        @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                        @nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                        @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                        @nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye ๐Ÿ˜‰

                                                                        Stats, eh ๐Ÿ˜›

                                                                        Just pointing out that Akira played really well against the Wobs last year. Unlike Codie, his form hasn't fallen off a cliff.

                                                                        There's a part of me that thinks if you don't play him and /or Sotutu, why pick them? I'd have no issues with a Sotutu/Cane/Ioane trio ... but some get concerned.

                                                                        Ultimately, the tight 5 will be more important than who we field in the loosies. Having two genuine lineout options in the loose is nice though

                                                                        Given Cane and Savea were in our top 3 or 4 players in the last test, Iโ€™d say the loose forwards are very important to our success or otherwise.

                                                                        The Argies loose forwards were dominant in their win against the Aussies.

                                                                        Iโ€™d prefer Ioane off the bench if Sotutu is a starter.

                                                                        you don't think the tight 5 work enables the loosies to shine? Because I do - it starts up front, and gives the rest of the team the time and space to look awesome. Rugby's good like that ๐Ÿ™‚

                                                                        I think the game has evolved a bit more than that old adage. I think all forwards are there to provide the platform to provide space for their team mates to operate in. Just as tight 5 players are required to become distributors/ball players, so they arenโ€™t always in the trenches. A bit of variation from our tight forwards is pretty important. Loosies in the trenches plus playing wider. Just about getting the balance right.

                                                                        Youโ€™re not wrong, just this season I saw Nepo Laulala catch a pass then pass it himself.

                                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                        • ACT Crusader
                                                                          ACT Crusader @Tordah last edited by

                                                                          @Tordah said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                          Kaino, McCaw, Read.

                                                                          Kaino, McCraw, Reid

                                                                          Chris Bones 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                                          • Chris
                                                                            Chris @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                                            @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                            @Tordah said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                            Kaino, McCaw, Read.

                                                                            Kaino, McCraw, Reid

                                                                            Perfect

                                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                            • Bones
                                                                              Bones @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                                              @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                              @Tordah said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                              Kaino, McCaw, Read.

                                                                              Kaino, McCraw, Reid

                                                                              I'd prefer McGaw.

                                                                              Machpants MN5 canefan 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                                              • Machpants
                                                                                Machpants @Bones last edited by

                                                                                @Bones said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                @Tordah said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                Kaino, McCaw, Read.

                                                                                Kaino, McCraw, Reid

                                                                                I'd prefer McGaw.

                                                                                And Kamo

                                                                                canefan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                • canefan
                                                                                  canefan @Machpants last edited by

                                                                                  @Machpants said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                  @Bones said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                  @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                  @Tordah said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                  Kaino, McCaw, Read.

                                                                                  Kaino, McCraw, Reid

                                                                                  I'd prefer McGaw.

                                                                                  And Kamo

                                                                                  Don't forget Reed

                                                                                  Crucial 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                  • Crucial
                                                                                    Crucial @canefan last edited by

                                                                                    @canefan said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                    @Machpants said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                    @Bones said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                    @ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                    @Tordah said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:

                                                                                    Kaino, McCaw, Read.

                                                                                    Kaino, McCraw, Reid

                                                                                    I'd prefer McGaw.

                                                                                    And Kamo

                                                                                    Don't forget Reed

                                                                                    Mesam was pretty good too

                                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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