Loose Trio for Bled 1?
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Thoughts? I'll post mine at Smoko, but suffice to say I DON'T want Sotutu and Akira at 8 and 6....
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The AB loosies seemed to work well on Saturday.
That said, on paper it seeems we played a 7, a 6.5 and a 6, so have been reflecting why?
Cane and Frizell have form in working well. Frizell runs straight and seems to clean well. Cane on Saturday was the abrasive tackler every trio needs.
It's as if we're playing two 6s and means that, although Savea packs at 8 in scrums, he can roam like a 7 and not required to clean much.
Only issue about the combo is that it puts a lot of weight on Frizell's shoulders at lineout time, which might be an issue against opponents stronger there than Pumas.
I'm starting to think Ardie and Akira only work together against middleweight packs or late on when game breaks up.
So with Ardie out, things seem well placed for Hoskins to come in.
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We might get them Bart, but personally I would like Jacobson at 6 or 8. I really like his style of play, and much will depend on how I think Ryan sees the mix. I haven't been real impressed with Sotutu all year, and don't anyone get upset, just he hasn't really been dominating at super or NPC in my eyes.
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I like Sotutu. He's got the best ball skills out of any loosie in the country, and has the potential to be an amazing link player. Given how we love to have forwards clogging up our back line, having one who can actually pass has some appeal.
What he's not though is a big munter in the Collins/Kaino/Frizzel style, so you need one of those alongside him for balance. And that's not Ioane either, despite his size and strength.
I guess that's historically a lot less important against Aussie, as far as this game goes. -
@reprobate said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
I like Sotutu. He's got the best ball skills out of any loosie in the country, and has the potential to be an amazing link player. Given how we love to have forwards clogging up our back line, having one who can actually pass has some appeal.
What he's not though is a big munter in the Collins/Kaino/Frizzel style, so you need one of those alongside him for balance. And that's not Ioane either, despite his size and strength.
I guess that's historically a lot less important against Aussie, as far as this game goes.Not a hater or anything, just not sure his style transfers to test rugby, and think if they start him, I personally would have either Jacobson or barrett at 6, more Frizell style than a slightly looser Akira?
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From this article re: Sotutu -
Breaking it Down: 'Carries' | The Analyst
‘Breaking It Down’ goes beneath the surface of some of Opta's most important rugby metrics. This week, we're looking at carries.
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I expect Barrett, Cane, Sotutu
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@Machpants said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
I expect Barrett, Cane, Sotutu
Same.
Really would like to see Dalton get some more game time though
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@Daffy-Jaffy thanks for posting that. Like all stats, you can make lots up from them.
I was interested that they didn't look at 'post contact metres' as that is a good indicator of pushing the defence onto the back foot eg Sami T made an average of around 2m post contact on his carries the other night. -
@Machpants said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
I expect Barrett, Cane, Sotutu
So do I. Sotutu is the most 'like for like' for Savea I would think and Scooter has already been used at 6 as next cab from Frizell.
Jacobsen is the other option at 6 for me but I guess that would depend greatly on how quickly he gels at training. -
6 for Melbourne is an interesting one.
Barrett seems the favoured choice but the speed of the game may not suit him (if the roof is closed + Wallaby style).
Akira went well vs Wallabies last year but doesn't have the greatest combo with Sotutu despite their franchise connection.
Jacobson gives you more mobility but hasn't been with the team and is probably better suited to 8.
Papali'i is better suited to 7 and really struggled to impose himself at 6 vs Ireland (also under the roof).
I think Sotutu has to be at 8 otherwise what the hell is he doing in the squad (plus he's earnt it after a magnificent season for the Blues)
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@KiwiMurph said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
6 for Melbourne is an interesting one.
Barrett seems the favoured choice but the speed of the game may not suit him (if the roof is closed + Wallaby style).
Akira went well vs Wallabies last year but doesn't have the greatest combo with Sotutu despite their franchise connection.
Jacobson gives you more mobility but hasn't been with the team and is probably better suited to 8.
Papali'i is better suited to 7 and really struggled to impose himself at 6 vs Ireland (also under the roof).
I think Sotutu has to be at 8 otherwise what the hell is he doing in the squad (plus he's earnt it after a magnificent season for the Blues)
The Wallabies are basically playing two locks plus a lock/6 in their back 5. Holloway is not the quickest guy.
Valentini does a lot of grunt work for this Wallaby side. McReight is a genuine speedster type though. Almost a Michael Hooper clone.
I don’t think speed will be much of an issue. OZ ball runners have had an issue of isolating themselves as well.
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@ACT-Crusader Yeah I guess i'm anticipating Wallabies mixing up their loose forward trio and giving someone like Leota or Samu a crack at 6. Holloway was pretty poor on the weekend I thought.
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So is Tupou Vaa'i now only seen as a lock, or also an option for 6?
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@BartMan said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
Thoughts? I'll post mine at Smoko, but suffice to say I DON'T want Sotutu and Akira at 8 and 6....
Went back to the 3 Bleds from last year.
Akira got a lot of love in there - MOTM in 2, and in the mix in 1 and 3.
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4824/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-iii
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/4792/all-blacks-motm-vs-aus-ii
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I'd be 100% starting Akira, he's been good this year and carved them up last year. Akira - Cane - Sotutu makes good sense against the Wallabies.
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@No-Quarter me too, and i think sotutu and Akira's time at the blues would make up a bit for not having played over the last few weeks...but now people have reminded me of barrett being seen as a 6...i think that it probably the most likely
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@Stargazer said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
So is Tupou Vaa'i now only seen as a lock, or also an option for 6?
I think that for the ABs he was only ever seen as a lock that could slide into 6 in an emergency. He only really played a bit at 6 for the Chiefs due to injuries even if he did play quite well and showed promise there if he wanted to reinvent himself.
@ACT-Crusader good point about Valentini doing much of the carry work. Maybe Jacobsen is more of an option than I thought if the role of the 6 will be to stop their 8 in his tracks. Jacobsen has a hard and accurate shoulder.
Ironically the work on that Foster gave him was to get his wide game going but maybe they have had a re-think and want a tight-loosie now. I think he fits that bill.I don't think Akira is the right guy against Valentini. He will bring him down but he has more of a wrestle tackle which will allow momentum.
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@No-Quarter said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
I'd be 100% starting Akira, he's been good this year and carved them up last year. Akira - Cane - Sotutu makes good sense against the Wallabies.
I think he’s been a bit up and down (like a few others). Some very good and some where he’s been less prominent.
@nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye 😉
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@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye 😉
Stats, eh
Just pointing out that Akira played really well against the Wobs last year. Unlike Codie, his form hasn't fallen off a cliff.
There's a part of me that thinks if you don't play him and /or Sotutu, why pick them? I'd have no issues with a Sotutu/Cane/Ioane trio ... but some get concerned.
Ultimately, the tight 5 will be more important than who we field in the loosies. Having two genuine lineout options in the loose is nice though
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@nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye 😉
Stats, eh
Just pointing out that Akira played really well against the Wobs last year. Unlike Codie, his form hasn't fallen off a cliff.
There's a part of me that thinks if you don't play him and /or Sotutu, why pick them? I'd have no issues with a Sotutu/Cane/Ioane trio ... but some get concerned.
Ultimately, the tight 5 will be more important than who we field in the loosies. Having two genuine lineout options in the loose is nice though
Given Cane and Savea were in our top 3 or 4 players in the last test, I’d say the loose forwards are very important to our success or otherwise.
The Argies loose forwards were dominant in their win against the Aussies.
I’d prefer Ioane off the bench if Sotutu is a starter.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye 😉
Stats, eh
Just pointing out that Akira played really well against the Wobs last year. Unlike Codie, his form hasn't fallen off a cliff.
There's a part of me that thinks if you don't play him and /or Sotutu, why pick them? I'd have no issues with a Sotutu/Cane/Ioane trio ... but some get concerned.
Ultimately, the tight 5 will be more important than who we field in the loosies. Having two genuine lineout options in the loose is nice though
Given Cane and Savea were in our top 3 or 4 players in the last test, I’d say the loose forwards are very important to our success or otherwise.
The Argies loose forwards were dominant in their win against the Aussies.
I’d prefer Ioane off the bench if Sotutu is a starter.
you don't think the tight 5 work enables the loosies to shine? Because I do - it starts up front, and gives the rest of the team the time and space to look awesome. Rugby's good like that
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i wouldnt mind seeing a cane/ioane/jacobson trio
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After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu
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@Canes4life said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu
That’s not enough, you need to throw in controversial opinions that totally contradicts anything that you would have read.
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@MN5 said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Canes4life said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu
That’s not enough, you need to throw in controversial opinions that totally contradicts anything that you would have read.
Or not read the thread at all and make an unqualified pronouncement
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@canefan said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@MN5 said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Canes4life said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu
That’s not enough, you need to throw in controversial opinions that totally contradicts anything that you would have read.
Or not read the thread at all and make an unqualified pronouncement
Samisoni to 6, he's everything we're asking for there. Taylor to start.
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@Bones said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@canefan said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@MN5 said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Canes4life said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu
That’s not enough, you need to throw in controversial opinions that totally contradicts anything that you would have read.
Or not read the thread at all and make an unqualified pronouncement
Samisoni to 6, he's everything we're asking for there. Taylor to start.
Too short. Should be a 12.
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@Bones said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@canefan said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@MN5 said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Canes4life said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
After reading none of the thread I would go Barrett/Cane/Sotutu
That’s not enough, you need to throw in controversial opinions that totally contradicts anything that you would have read.
Or not read the thread at all and make an unqualified pronouncement
Samisoni to 6, he's everything we're asking for there. Taylor to start.
Can you imagine Samisoni off the back of the scrum with a head of steam up? Un-fucking-stoppable
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@No-Quarter said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
Can you imagine Samisoni off the back of the scrum with a head of steam up? Un-fucking-stoppable
When I watched him play for St Paul's at 1st XV level he did alternate between hooker and no.8.
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@Bovidae said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@No-Quarter said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
Can you imagine Samisoni off the back of the scrum with a head of steam up? Un-fucking-stoppable
When I watched him play for St Paul's at 1st XV level he did alternate between hooker and no.8.
😳
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@nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye 😉
Stats, eh
Just pointing out that Akira played really well against the Wobs last year. Unlike Codie, his form hasn't fallen off a cliff.
There's a part of me that thinks if you don't play him and /or Sotutu, why pick them? I'd have no issues with a Sotutu/Cane/Ioane trio ... but some get concerned.
Ultimately, the tight 5 will be more important than who we field in the loosies. Having two genuine lineout options in the loose is nice though
Given Cane and Savea were in our top 3 or 4 players in the last test, I’d say the loose forwards are very important to our success or otherwise.
The Argies loose forwards were dominant in their win against the Aussies.
I’d prefer Ioane off the bench if Sotutu is a starter.
you don't think the tight 5 work enables the loosies to shine? Because I do - it starts up front, and gives the rest of the team the time and space to look awesome. Rugby's good like that
I think the game has evolved a bit more than that old adage. I think all forwards are there to provide the platform to provide space for their team mates to operate in. Just as tight 5 players are required to become distributors/ball players, so they aren’t always in the trenches. A bit of variation from our tight forwards is pretty important. Loosies in the trenches plus playing wider. Just about getting the balance right.
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Kaino, McCaw, Read.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@nzzp said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@nzzp does it count that Codie Taylor was in the top 3 for those Bled test, so he should play too aye 😉
Stats, eh
Just pointing out that Akira played really well against the Wobs last year. Unlike Codie, his form hasn't fallen off a cliff.
There's a part of me that thinks if you don't play him and /or Sotutu, why pick them? I'd have no issues with a Sotutu/Cane/Ioane trio ... but some get concerned.
Ultimately, the tight 5 will be more important than who we field in the loosies. Having two genuine lineout options in the loose is nice though
Given Cane and Savea were in our top 3 or 4 players in the last test, I’d say the loose forwards are very important to our success or otherwise.
The Argies loose forwards were dominant in their win against the Aussies.
I’d prefer Ioane off the bench if Sotutu is a starter.
you don't think the tight 5 work enables the loosies to shine? Because I do - it starts up front, and gives the rest of the team the time and space to look awesome. Rugby's good like that
I think the game has evolved a bit more than that old adage. I think all forwards are there to provide the platform to provide space for their team mates to operate in. Just as tight 5 players are required to become distributors/ball players, so they aren’t always in the trenches. A bit of variation from our tight forwards is pretty important. Loosies in the trenches plus playing wider. Just about getting the balance right.
You’re not wrong, just this season I saw Nepo Laulala catch a pass then pass it himself.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Tordah said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
Kaino, McCaw, Read.
Kaino, McCraw, Reid
Perfect
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@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Tordah said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
Kaino, McCaw, Read.
Kaino, McCraw, Reid
I'd prefer McGaw.
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@Bones said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Tordah said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
Kaino, McCaw, Read.
Kaino, McCraw, Reid
I'd prefer McGaw.
And Kamo
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@Machpants said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Bones said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Tordah said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
Kaino, McCaw, Read.
Kaino, McCraw, Reid
I'd prefer McGaw.
And Kamo
Don't forget Reed
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@canefan said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Machpants said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Bones said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
@Tordah said in Loose Trio for Bled 1?:
Kaino, McCaw, Read.
Kaino, McCraw, Reid
I'd prefer McGaw.
And Kamo
Don't forget Reed
Mesam was pretty good too
