All Blacks vs Wales
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Given Cane, Coles have gone home and Patty, Ennor, RTS, McKenzie have gone back to AB XV here's what I think the team will be;
- DeGroot
- Taukie'aho
- Lomax
- Retallick *
- Whitelock (c)
- A. Ioane
- Papali'i
- Savea
- Smith
- Mo'unga
- Clarke
- J.Barrett
- R.Ioane
- Reece
- B.Barrett
Res: Taylor, Tu'ungufasi, Newell, S.Barrett, Sotutu, Christie, Havili, ALB
If Retallick is unavailable with suspension, Barrett to start and Va'ai on the bench.
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@TheMojoman I'd be very happy with that team.
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@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
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I'm not sure Havili AND ALB on the bench is the best long-term option, but I doubt they'll be brave enough to include Telea or LF.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Frizell in the 23.
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@TheMojoman said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Given Cane, Coles have gone home and Patty, Ennor, RTS, McKenzie have gone back to AB XV here's what I think the team will be;
- DeGroot
- Taukie'aho
- Lomax
- Retallick *
- Whitelock (c)
- A. Ioane
- Papali'i
- Savea
- Smith
- Mo'unga
- Clarke
- J.Barrett
- R.Ioane
- Reece
- B.Barrett
Res: Taylor, Tu'ungufasi, Newell, S.Barrett, Sotutu, Christie, Havili, ALB
If Retallick is unavailable with suspension, Barrett to start and Va'ai on the bench.
If Rettalick cleared: Barrett 6, (Ioane 20), Sotutu out...
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Not a big fan of Reece. Shame that Jordan isn't available
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
But what about when ST started and played well. I would have him starting. And I hope Aumua gets game time in at least one test. So if not Wales then Scotland.
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@Winger said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
But what about when ST started and played well. I would have him starting. And I hope Aumua gets game time in at least one test. So if not Wales then Scotland.
These guys that have stepped up from XVs are on a hiding to nothing. Selected in the AB XV to give them a showcase but now have to be tackle bag holders and reserve reserves for the main team.
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@Winger said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Not a big fan of Reece. Shame that Jordan isn't available
Reece is a better winger than Jordan, offers a lot more physicality which Jordan lacks.
5kg heavier, much stronger & dominant tackler, with a ridiculous work-rate off the ball.
Jordan is a fullback and isn't nearly as effective on the wing.
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@kiwi_expat Jodan offers a strike ability that Reece doesn't possess. Look at Jordan's long range tries vs Ireland and in both Bledisloes.
Jordan's workrate was really strong in Bledisloe 2.
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@Winger said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Not a big fan of Reece. Shame that Jordan isn't available
I really rate Reece. Quality winger, huge workrate, effective. Proven against top opposition.
Jordan this year has had question marks at the top level; bloody good player, but hasn't put it on the park consistently.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Not a big fan of Reece. Shame that Jordan isn't available
I really rate Reece. Quality winger, huge workrate, effective. Proven against top opposition.
Jordan this year has had question marks at the top level; bloody good player, but hasn't put it on the park consistently.
It was good to see Reece get a good hitout. He made some errors but since the Irish series he’s played less than 80 minutes of test footy. I really like his endeavour and the fact he backs himself. With Jordan out, unless they are going to do something funky with Ioane or Jordie, then he is the next cab off the rank.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@kiwi_expat Jodan offers a strike ability that Reece doesn't possess. Look at Jordan's long range tries vs Ireland and in both Bledisloes.
Jordan's workrate was really strong in Bledisloe 2.
Jordan is wasted on the wing. He is effective for the Crusaders at fullback because he comes from deep to hit the ball at full-pace & has a roaming license, always prowling in the back of the field of play, watching, assessing, waiting for the just the right opportunity to inject himself into the attack. Razor's gameplan utilizes his personal & their attributes perfectly, Foster's square-pegs in round-holes' approach does not (see Havili, Jordie at 14/15).
Jordan does not get nearly enough touches at 14, he is wasted there.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Razor's gameplan utilizes his personal & their attributes perfectly, Foster's square-pegs in round-holes approach does not (see Havili).
Looking at Jordan's last start at Eden Park he had 9 carries for 119 metres.
Part of this I think is Jordie at 12 and Beauden at 15 - Jordie looks comfortable distributing from 12 which should open up opportunities and in addition Beauden is a better distributor from 15 than Jordie.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@kiwi_expat Jodan offers a strike ability that Reece doesn't possess. Look at Jordan's long range tries vs Ireland and in both Bledisloes.
Jordan's workrate was really strong in Bledisloe 2.
Jordan is wasted on the wing. He is effective for the Crusaders at fullback because he comes from deep to hit the ball at full-pace & has a roaming license, always prowling in the back of the field of play, watching, assessing, waiting for the just the right opportunity to inject himself into the attack. Razor's gameplan utilizes his personal & their attributes perfectly, Foster's square-pegs in round-holes' approach does not (see Havili, Jordie at 14/15).
Jordan does not get nearly enough touches at 14, he is wasted there.
It is far easier to have a roaming licence on the wing at Test level. Doing so from fullback means that you need to sacrifice a wing to always watch what the fullback is doing and cover where he should be.
At Super you can do what he does. Doesn't work so well against the better teams at the international level.Put it another way. Would you play DMac with a roaming licence at 15 and Jordan on the wing but covering the back? Probably not because Jordan would then be wasted and get few opportunities.
The back three needs balance. If we had Ben Smith on the wing I would be happier with that plan but Reece is no Ben Smith. -
@KiwiMurph It took Foster 29 tests and injuries to all of his available centres to realize that Jordie's physical attributes might be best utilized at 12.
Meanwhile, Razor had already been advocating for J.Barrett as the All Black's 12 for the last 3 years.
We'd already have established experienced combinations instead of dealing with Foster's indecisiveness, last minute fixes determined by injuries forcing his hand.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph It took Foster 29 tests and injuries to all of his available centres to realize that Jordie's physical attributes might be best utilized at 12.
Meanwhile, Razor had already been advocating for J.Barrett as the All Black's 12 for the last 3 years.
Reinventing history one post at a time.
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@Crucial nope, in interviews as far back as 2020 Razor wanted J.Barrett at 12.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph It took Foster 29 tests and injuries to all of his available centres to realize that Jordie's physical attributes might be best utilized at 12.
Meanwhile, Razor had already been advocating for J.Barrett as the All Black's 12 for the last 3 years.
We'd already have established experienced combinations instead of dealing with Foster's indecisiveness, last minute fixes determined by injuries forcing his hand.
I certainly agree that Foster has been too slow to play Jordie at 12.
However, that seems like a different discussion point than talking about Jordan vs Reece as wing options.
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
my counter to that would be that Sami is about the only forward getting over the advantage line when he carries.. you need that from the start, not just the last 20
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@WillieTheWaiter And why I think Frizell will be in team, he carries in close and usually will get over advantage line. Why Barrett is good at 6 I think
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@WillieTheWaiter And why I think Frizell will be in team, he carries in close and usually will get over advantage line. Why Barrett is good at 6 I think
Saturday is counterpoint to that
He had less run metres than runs
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@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
my counter to that would be that Sami is about the only forward getting over the advantage line when he carries.. you need that from the start, not just the last 20
I get that. Love him as much as everyone else on here.
But he wasn't effective starting on Saturday.
Not saying I'm unhappy with him starting, but would give serious consideration to swapping the hookers.
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
my counter to that would be that Sami is about the only forward getting over the advantage line when he carries.. you need that from the start, not just the last 20
I get that. Love him as much as everyone else on here.
But he wasn't effective starting on Saturday.
Not saying I'm unhappy with him starting, but would give serious consideration to swapping the hookers.
Really? He went forward with his balling running as he always does. Retallick's try came from Samisoni busting the defence and then putting BBBR away with the final pass.
The lineout certainly wasn't operating at 100% but to me the throws looked ok to me - looked more like issues with reception by the jumpers.
He's our best hooker by a country mile - need him playing 50-60 minutes in big tests. He's shown in multiple tests he is an effective starter. Suddenly benching him based on one outing vs Japan when he wasn't even that bad feels like over-thinking it.
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@KiwiMurph also would still have a better lineout accuracy rate this year at this level than the other two..Cant see Taylor or Coles throwing that try contributing throw to RTS either, that Reece scored from. If the others did do it, it would only be likely missing their own targets as an accident..
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@WillieTheWaiter And why I think Frizell will be in team, he carries in close and usually will get over advantage line. Why Barrett is good at 6 I think
Saturday is counterpoint to that
He had less run metres than runs
Frizell is the modern day Reuben Thorne which isn’t all negative. You need the backrowers who do the dirty work, strong tackles, clean outs etc.
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@mariner4life yep but generally he is a bloody good carrier in close. Also pretty good lineout target generally.
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@bayimports not this season but Taylor and Coles have done those throws in previous seasons.
Given Sami was supposed to be a reserve on Saturday I wonder if that disrupts what they were planning for him in terms of playing time and keeping him fresh enough for the England test.
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I have to say ST lineout throw to RTS for that try was just pure gold. The accuracy and power to throw the ball like that would make Brady smile.
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
But he wasn't effective starting on Saturday.
Not saying I'm unhappy withYou are kidding right? Did you see his bursting runs and cleanouts and his big hand in two tries? Yes he missed a couple of insignificant tackles when others were there to mop up and had a wobbly throw-in and another where our jumper was impeded. So far from perfect but still a strong performance in my opinion.
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BBBR will have a sit down surely?
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Wales:
BBBR will have a sit down surely?
Yup he'll be going home on Tuesday
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
my counter to that would be that Sami is about the only forward getting over the advantage line when he carries.. you need that from the start, not just the last 20
I get that. Love him as much as everyone else on here.
But he wasn't effective starting on Saturday.
Not saying I'm unhappy with him starting, but would give serious consideration to swapping the hookers.
Sorry, fuck off to that.
Samisoni gets dropped to the bench based on one sub-par performance and Taylor gets the start???
Taylor has to play his way back in by being consistently better than Samisoni.
Samisoni is now the incumbent. -
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
my counter to that would be that Sami is about the only forward getting over the advantage line when he carries.. you need that from the start, not just the last 20
I get that. Love him as much as everyone else on here.
But he wasn't effective starting on Saturday.
Not saying I'm unhappy with him starting, but would give serious consideration to swapping the hookers.
Sorry, fuck off to that.
Samisoni gets dropped to the bench based on one sub-par performance and Taylor gets the start???
Taylor has to play his way back in by being consistently better than Samisoni.
Samisoni is now the incumbent.You misinterpret.
I'm not saying Taylor is better so he is the starter.
In fact the complete opposite.
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@Winger said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Not a big fan of Reece. Shame that Jordan isn't available
Happy with either TBH - we're pretty spoiled in that slot. Pleased if Reece gets some decent game time and a bit of a break might help Jordan
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@bayimports not this season but Taylor and Coles have done those throws in previous seasons.
Given Sami was supposed to be a reserve on Saturday I wonder if that disrupts what they were planning for him in terms of playing time and keeping him fresh enough for the England test.
My thoughts exactly. He's a star player but that doesn't mean his workload shouldn't be managed.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Wales:
It took Foster 29 tests and injuries to all of his available centres to realize that Jordie's physical attributes might be best utilized at 12.
Meanwhile, Razor had already been advocating for J.Barrett as the All Black's 12 for the last 3 years.He's played one game at 12 against an Australian team which was pretty much dominated by an AB team - and one coached by Foster at that.
So let's see how he goes against some decent NH sides before proclaiming him the new messiah at 12.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
my counter to that would be that Sami is about the only forward getting over the advantage line when he carries.. you need that from the start, not just the last 20
I get that. Love him as much as everyone else on here.
But he wasn't effective starting on Saturday.
Not saying I'm unhappy with him starting, but would give serious consideration to swapping the hookers.
Really? He went forward with his balling running as he always does. Retallick's try came from Samisoni busting the defence and then putting BBBR away with the final pass.
The lineout certainly wasn't operating at 100% but to me the throws looked ok to me - looked more like issues with reception by the jumpers.
He's our best hooker by a country mile - need him playing 50-60 minutes in big tests. He's shown in multiple tests he is an effective starter. Suddenly benching him based on one outing vs Japan when he wasn't even that bad feels like over-thinking it.
Sami’s throws were off in Saturday. Lucky BBBR try wasn’t cancelled for crooked throw. Even TJ noticed that and a second one, later in first H, I think.
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Whitelock has been named the captain, Savea and B Barrett are vice-captains.
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@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@KiwiMurph @TheMojoman #metoo
Although I'll put forward the suggestion that ST and Taylor swap roles. Feel we'll get more from his impact against less structured defences.
I'm ready for the counter arguments. But I disagree.
I also feel my suggestion was kind of supported by performances on Saturday.
my counter to that would be that Sami is about the only forward getting over the advantage line when he carries.. you need that from the start, not just the last 20
I get that. Love him as much as everyone else on here.
But he wasn't effective starting on Saturday.
Not saying I'm unhappy with him starting, but would give serious consideration to swapping the hookers.
Really? He went forward with his balling running as he always does. Retallick's try came from Samisoni busting the defence and then putting BBBR away with the final pass.
The lineout certainly wasn't operating at 100% but to me the throws looked ok to me - looked more like issues with reception by the jumpers.
He's our best hooker by a country mile - need him playing 50-60 minutes in big tests. He's shown in multiple tests he is an effective starter. Suddenly benching him based on one outing vs Japan when he wasn't even that bad feels like over-thinking it.
Sami’s throws were off in Saturday. Lucky BBBR try wasn’t cancelled for crooked throw. Even TJ noticed that and a second one, later in first H, I think.
Don't believe a word of what the commentators say with regard to decisions. They spent ages trying to convince everyone about a forward pass that wasn't because they only looked at the passer's body and not his arm/hand.
The refs on the board can probably confirm this but 'crooked' throws aren't necessarily a problem unless the catcher reaches to the outside of the line to catch.
