Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final
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Thought I'd start this thread because you misogynists haven't yet.
Genuine question.
What happened to Charmaine McMenamin?
Was hugely impressed with her v Aus. A little less so v Scotland admittedly.
Does she get look in for the rest of the games?
Ant other changes for this week?
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Referee: Joy Neville (IRFU)
Assistant Referee 1: Sara Cox (RFU)
Assistant Referee 2: Amber McLachlan (RA)
TMO: Ian Tempest (RFU) -
@booboo said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
What happened to Charmaine McMenamin?
Liana Mikaele-Tu'u
McM was playing well but LMT has pushed past
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Have avoided the thread as I'm pretty sure what is being said. But I'll throw my tuppence out there four days later (this coming Friday). So late it's probably no longer relevant or of any interest, but anyways...
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I’m not expecting much change from last week.
I think that the front rows are sorted and also the locks although bench may depend on who works best in combo with front rows.
Hirini may move to bench for Kennedy-Simon to start
The biggest question is whether the tactic of Ayesha, Portia and Ruby is deemed a starting or finishing proposition.
Can’t see Smith being conservative though. -
@Crucial said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
I’m not expecting much change from last week.
I think that the front rows are sorted and also the locks although bench may depend on who works best in combo with front rows.
Hirini may move to bench for Kennedy-Simon to start
The biggest question is whether the tactic of Ayesha, Portia and Ruby is deemed a starting or finishing proposition.
Can’t see Smith being conservative though.Our biggest chance is to attack them through the backs. Our back three need to attack at every opportunity
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@Billy-Tell said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
Have avoided the thread as I'm pretty sure what is being said. But I'll throw my tuppence out there four days later (this coming Friday). So late it's probably no longer relevant or of any interest, but anyways...
Interesting attempt at a sledge ... I think
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@canefan said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@Crucial said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
I’m not expecting much change from last week.
I think that the front rows are sorted and also the locks although bench may depend on who works best in combo with front rows.
Hirini may move to bench for Kennedy-Simon to start
The biggest question is whether the tactic of Ayesha, Portia and Ruby is deemed a starting or finishing proposition.
Can’t see Smith being conservative though.Our biggest chance is to attack them through the backs. Our back three need to attack at every opportunity
For sure but I am not convinced that the combination of those three worked that well. When you also have Fitzpatrick and Fluhler in the midfield there may be an option to secure the backfield kicking with Holmes (France kick more than any other side) and then decide where to put a reserve attacker on the field.
I am fairly certain they will go all out to start though. -
@Crucial said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@canefan said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@Crucial said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
I’m not expecting much change from last week.
I think that the front rows are sorted and also the locks although bench may depend on who works best in combo with front rows.
Hirini may move to bench for Kennedy-Simon to start
The biggest question is whether the tactic of Ayesha, Portia and Ruby is deemed a starting or finishing proposition.
Can’t see Smith being conservative though.Our biggest chance is to attack them through the backs. Our back three need to attack at every opportunity
For sure but I am not convinced that the combination of those three worked that well. When you also have Fitzpatrick and Fluhler in the midfield there may be an option to secure the backfield kicking with Holmes (France kick more than any other side) and then decide where to put a reserve attacker on the field.
I am fairly certain they will go all out to start though.I worry about Holmes because of the way she got handled in the Aussie test
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@canefan said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@Crucial said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@canefan said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@Crucial said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
I’m not expecting much change from last week.
I think that the front rows are sorted and also the locks although bench may depend on who works best in combo with front rows.
Hirini may move to bench for Kennedy-Simon to start
The biggest question is whether the tactic of Ayesha, Portia and Ruby is deemed a starting or finishing proposition.
Can’t see Smith being conservative though.Our biggest chance is to attack them through the backs. Our back three need to attack at every opportunity
For sure but I am not convinced that the combination of those three worked that well. When you also have Fitzpatrick and Fluhler in the midfield there may be an option to secure the backfield kicking with Holmes (France kick more than any other side) and then decide where to put a reserve attacker on the field.
I am fairly certain they will go all out to start though.I worry about Holmes because of the way she got handled in the Aussie test
She was better when she came on last game.
I wouldn’t start her either but it is an option depending on whether they want to throw everything at the frogs from the start or later. -
My worry would be if the French kick deep and Tui is forced to kick. Her option from fullback is always run first.
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@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
My worry would be if the French kick deep and Tui is forced to kick. Her option from fullback is always run first.
They don’t really want to kick in their own half and I can understand the tactic. Many women’s teams play this way as to play traditionally requires a strong boot which isn’t a common part of the women’s teams.
If you can run forward and find enough support to recycle around the 22 you will eventually gain more ground than a kick handing a lineout to the opponents around the same spot.
The tactic relies on the ability to find support and the support players being aware and ready. -
@Crucial I haven't seen the French play at the RWC but I did read that their fullback is a very good kicker. I expect they'll try to play the territorial game and rely on their defence to keep the BFs in their own half, and force errors. It will be a clash of styles although the French do have some good backs, based on the games they played against NZ on the tour last year.
In the end the BF forwards will be more important to have parity in the scrums and avoid defending lineout drives.
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@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@Crucial I haven't seen the French play at the RWC but I did read that their fullback is a very good kicker. I expect they'll try to play the territorial game and rely on their defence to keep the BFs in their own half, and force errors. It will be a clash of styles although the French do have some good backs, based on the games they played against NZ on the tour last year.
In the end the BF forwards will be more important to have parity in the scrums and avoid defending lineout drives.
French strategy so far has been a kick and defend one counting on executing opportunities offered (eg attacking scrums, mauls, turnovers). Not a lot dissimilar to how the ABs have played at times but without the same level of flair on counter attack.
They have only recently moved one of their better players to 15. I think this is partly the common thinking in the womens game around it being more beneficial to run forward from deep, reset and then kick.
Generally though, they back a well organised defence to choke the opportunities of the other team. This will be the most fascinating aspect of seeing whether Smith's plans will work. Neither England or France are used to teams forcing them into decision making on defence. They both play very traditionally with their running lines and passing laterally. Offloads are rare. Oz sliced the French open easily when they got some front foot attacking ball. They just didn't have the rest of the game to support things. -
@Crucial said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@Crucial I haven't seen the French play at the RWC but I did read that their fullback is a very good kicker. I expect they'll try to play the territorial game and rely on their defence to keep the BFs in their own half, and force errors. It will be a clash of styles although the French do have some good backs, based on the games they played against NZ on the tour last year.
In the end the BF forwards will be more important to have parity in the scrums and avoid defending lineout drives.
French strategy so far has been a kick and defend one counting on executing opportunities offered (eg attacking scrums, mauls, turnovers). Not a lot dissimilar to how the ABs have played at times but without the same level of flair on counter attack.
They have only recently moved one of their better players to 15. I think this is partly the common thinking in the womens game around it being more beneficial to run forward from deep, reset and then kick.
Generally though, they back a well organised defence to choke the opportunities of the other team. This will be the most fascinating aspect of seeing whether Smith's plans will work. Neither England or France are used to teams forcing them into decision making on defence. They both play very traditionally with their running lines and passing laterally. Offloads are rare. Oz sliced the French open easily when they got some front foot attacking ball. They just didn't have the rest of the game to support things.If Oz could do it we can do it. Can we do it enough to win? It will be a battle of styles that is for sure. I want to see us play our style as opposed to trying to combat their game
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For me this is any easy choice , I just think Kennedy Simon is much more of physical presence
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@Steven-Harris said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
For me this is any easy choice , I just think Kennedy Simon is much more of physical presence
Not so sure it is an easy choice. Agree about the physicality but Hirini was my POTM last game. The workrate and decision making was top notch.
I think they will share the time, just depends on tactics who starts. -
@Steven-Harris Hirini also doubles as a LO receiver, our kick reception too was a lot more secure when she was there. Lose our kickoffs as Aus did, and you leave yourself exposed. Want good front foot ball. Bit reluctant to throw Kennedy in as a starter, as France will surely target our set piece. The prof has a good headache!
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@Steven-Harris said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
For me this is any easy choice , I just think Kennedy Simon is much more of physical presence
Yes, she is a very abrasive and physical player. I would start Simon and bring Hirini on, but Simon can also play no.8, so we might see them both at the end.
I would start Connor and Ngan-Woo, as I think they strengthen the scrum and ball-carrying, but I don't see that happening.
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@Bovidae I wondered whether Ngan-Woo was carrying an injury? She seemed less abrasive than usual v Wales.
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@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@Steven-Harris said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
For me this is any easy choice , I just think Kennedy Simon is much more of physical presence
Yes, she is a very abrasive and physical player. I would start Simon and bring Hirini on, but Simon can also play no.8, so we might see them both at the end.
I would start Connor and Ngan-Woo, as I think they strengthen the scrum and ball-carrying, but I don't see that happening.
I think I mentioned in another thread that the French target the scrum at the reserve changeover for a period. They will try and out last the starting tight five and smash a couple of scrums when new players come on.
I wouldn't necessarily put all of our eggs into the starter basket. The coaches will have worked out combos in training and although the Cantab FR may not be the absolute strongest combo they would be the next best and then Connor can strengthen the reserves. There's also that Connor and Taumata have played together a lot and Taumata is very young so the known experience next to her may help. -
The same starting forward pack. Holmes at fullback.
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Like the look of that team. Attack. Interesting that Woodman switches wings, Leti-iga drops to the bench to accommodate Holmes, with Tubic as added insurance. Tui sent back to the wing on a roving commission you would think . Must be expecting a fair bit of kicking. Hirini's good form, athleticism and link play is rewarded with a starting Jersey. Big tick for the pack. Let's go!
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@Jailbreak7 Portia was stationed as first receiver alot v Wales behind scrums (left and right) and at other times even when she didnt take the ball, so she is a great player to have just to attract the defences interest.
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@Jailbreak7 said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@Bovidae I wondered whether Ngan-Woo was carrying an injury? She seemed less abrasive than usual v Wales.
The other thing I have liked about Ngan-Woo is being used as a distributor in the midfield, which is something Bremner and Roos don't offer. It adds some variety to the attack.
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Very much as expected. I think they have gradually worked on Holmes after the opening game mess at the start.
Holmes is the 'safety net' in a way. Has better range on her kicks and her positioning at the back is better in covering kicks. If we need to pull the trigger/ play catch up etc later in the game then Ayesha could come on and Tui move back.
Ayesha is definately a talent but her inexperience showed last week a couple of times. She also discovered that some of what she does gets shut down a bit quicker at this level.
I think the balance is good.
If this is the top 23 as it seems it is then there are a couple of unlucky players in the squad in. McMeniman and duPlessis. Of the others, when you list them out it becomes even more obvious that this is the right team.Delamare - will be an adequate reserve if required but certainly No3 hooker
Kalounivale - strong but hasn't managed to fix her body position issues at scrum and maul time. Too upright and will get destroyed. Big work on for her.
Tangen-Wainohu - just hasn't shown enough either in the scrum or carrying
Reynolds - like Delamare would acquit herself well if called on but better options
Marino-Tauhinu - close second to Bayler IMO. Cocksedge was always going to be there for the experience factor and Bayler probably has a slightly better mix of defence/vision and passing
Wickliffe - Like Reynolds and Delamare, a safe sound experienced backup -
You have to have some sympathy for Glenn Moore as Wayne Smith has a roll call of AB greats at his disposal. This is also a black mark against NZR because it highlights the lack of resources the previous coach had.
Let's hope it works!
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Have to say I like the look of the team, and absolutely stoked to see we still see bloody good players missing out, and how bloody good is it? Here we all are getting excited over the Women's game and really looking forward to the game.
Big plus all the way round! -
@Bovidae said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
You have to have some sympathy for Glenn Moore as Wayne Smith has a roll call of AB greats at his disposal. This is also a black mark against NZR because it highlights the lack of resources the previous coach had.
Let's hope it works!
Pretty awesome to see.
I also have sympathy for Moore. The media picked on a couple of things in the review and scapegoated him into an untenable position but the bulk of the report was criticism toward NZRU about the levels and quality of support offered to the team. Almost well meaning volunteers without adequate guiding management leading to mixed messages and disenfranchised players.
I think Morre would have done better with support but in order to turn things around quickly he fell on his sword. -
Worth a watch for some insights into The Professor's ways of working.
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Excuse my ignorance, I’ve been following our girls but don’t have a great knowledge of our opposition,
Is the a 50/50 or are we favourites ?
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@kiwiinmelb said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
Excuse my ignorance, I’ve been following our girls but don’t have a great knowledge of our opposition,
Is the a 50/50 or are we favourites ?
They dominated us when we toured there last year(?). But we were struggling post-covid19 and there was discord in the team, and they had regular play in the 6N. I would assume we are a much more dangerous proposition now
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@kiwiinmelb said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
Excuse my ignorance, I’ve been following our girls but don’t have a great knowledge of our opposition,
Is the a 50/50 or are we favourites ?
The exciting thing is that we truly don’t know and this will be a clash of styles.
It is as close to an old school SH v NH rugby game as you’ll get. One side keeping the ball in hand, running lines and offloading, the other with a kick and defend style. Well organised and ready to smash it up in a 10 man way.
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@canefan said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@kiwiinmelb said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
Excuse my ignorance, I’ve been following our girls but don’t have a great knowledge of our opposition,
Is the a 50/50 or are we favourites ?
They dominated us when we toured there last year(?). But we were struggling post-covid19 and there was discord in the team, and they had regular play in the 6N. I would assume we are a much more dangerous proposition now
Yeah I was aware of those results I watched those games ,
Just wasn’t 100 percent if we had improved enough to move ahead in the favouritism
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@Crucial said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
@kiwiinmelb said in Black Ferns v France, RWC Semi Final:
Excuse my ignorance, I’ve been following our girls but don’t have a great knowledge of our opposition,
Is the a 50/50 or are we favourites ?
The exciting thing is that we truly don’t know and this will be a clash of styles.
It is as close to an old school SH v NH rugby game as you’ll get. One side keeping the ball in hand, running lines and offloading, the other with a kick and defend style. Well organised and ready to smash it up in a 10 man way.
Cool , that’s what I figured , have enjoyed watching them thus far , plenty of fun to watch , let’s hope we can keep it going
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Only 20,000 tickets sold for the Womens Rugby World Cup semi finals Still it is 2,000 tickets more than they had for the 2017 Womens Rugby World Cup final played at Kingspan home ground of Ulster in Ireland Probably about several thousand more that rock up to Blues games during the season and probably about 19,000 more twhat rock up to Auckland NPC games at home .
If they can get a walk up of 5’000-7’000 given the weather for tomorrow is good .
You would take that would’nt you ..? -
@Steven-Harris I'm not surprised. I think it was 35k rocked up for the hype around the triple header opening day.
People will jump on the bandwagon if the BFs make the final at the same venue a week later.
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Comparatively good numbers but we should be able to do better IMO. The free to air on TV3 wont help.
