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    Kane Williamson and Tim Southee

    Sports Talk
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    • MN5
      MN5 last edited by Duluth

      Deserves it’s own thread if true.

      Did NOT see this one coming !!!!!

      https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/130769644/tim-southee-set-to-replace-kane-williamson-as-black-caps-test-captain

      Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )

      If it helps KWs batting then I’m all for it.

      Donsteppa 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • dogmeat
        dogmeat last edited by

        Weird.

        Latham has always captained the test side when Williamson has been unavailable.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
        • Donsteppa
          Donsteppa @MN5 last edited by

          @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

          Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )

          Pat Cummins is the incumbent for Oz at the moment.

          When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.

          MN5 Bovidae 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • MN5
            MN5 @Donsteppa last edited by MN5

            @Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

            @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

            Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )

            Pat Cummins is the incumbent for Oz at the moment.

            When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.

            Great point.

            But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains ( Border, Taylor, Waugh, Ponting, Clarke, Smith ) so it’s definitely unusual

            Ours is….um….less impressive but the principle is the same !

            Donsteppa nzzp 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • Donsteppa
              Donsteppa @MN5 last edited by

              @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

              @Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

              @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

              Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )

              Pat Cummins is the incumbent for Oz at the moment.

              When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.

              Great point.

              But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains ( Border, Taylor, Waugh, Ponting, Clarke, Smith ) so it’s definitely unusual

              Ours is….um….less impressive but the principle is the same !

              From a spin bowling point of view we did have that stellar period of Dan Vettori captaining, being the best bowler, batting in the middle order, and driving the team bus...

              MN5 Windows97 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 5
              • Bovidae
                Bovidae @Donsteppa last edited by Bovidae

                @Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.

                It's not like NZC and Stead to make the wrong decision is it? 😉

                I guess this also means that Kane is determined to continue to cash in on T20s if possible.

                canefan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • Crazy Horse
                  Crazy Horse last edited by

                  Has Southee got much longer in him? Seems like he has been around for ever.

                  mariner4life dogmeat Kiwiwomble 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                  • MN5
                    MN5 @Donsteppa last edited by

                    @Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                    @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                    @Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                    @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                    Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )

                    Pat Cummins is the incumbent for Oz at the moment.

                    When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.

                    Great point.

                    But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains ( Border, Taylor, Waugh, Ponting, Clarke, Smith ) so it’s definitely unusual

                    Ours is….um….less impressive but the principle is the same !

                    From a spin bowling point of view we did have that stellar period of Dan Vettori captaining, being the best bowler, batting in the middle order, and driving the team bus...

                    I don’t count him cos ( rather embarrassingly ) he was one of the better batsmen in the team during his reign.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • mariner4life
                      mariner4life @Crazy Horse last edited by

                      @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                      Has Southee got much longer in him? Seems like he has been around for ever.

                      this is the most important question really.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • dogmeat
                        dogmeat @Crazy Horse last edited by

                        @Crazy-Horse 34 this week so two years older than Kane.

                        Has been around forever. I mean his first captain was Fleming FFS, but he keeps himself fit so might fill in for a couple of seasons. Also, might blow up in his next test and be forced to retire so bit of a risk.

                        Surprised it's not Latham as he's only 30.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                        • nzzp
                          nzzp @MN5 last edited by

                          @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                          But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains

                          spot on - their best batsman is inevitably the captain. Paine and then Cummins are the first to really break that for decades I think

                          MN5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • MN5
                            MN5 @nzzp last edited by

                            @nzzp said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                            @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                            But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains

                            spot on - their best batsman is inevitably the captain. Paine and then Cummins are the first to really break that for decades I think

                            Was Tubby the best ? Probably not. Can’t argue with the rest though.

                            ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • Windows97
                              Windows97 @Donsteppa last edited by

                              @Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                              @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                              @Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                              @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                              Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )

                              Pat Cummins is the incumbent for Oz at the moment.

                              When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.

                              Great point.

                              But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains ( Border, Taylor, Waugh, Ponting, Clarke, Smith ) so it’s definitely unusual

                              Ours is….um….less impressive but the principle is the same !

                              From a spin bowling point of view we did have that stellar period of Dan Vettori captaining, being the best bowler, batting in the middle order, and driving the team bus...

                              As one Aussie commentator said at the time - he should come out onto the pitch on a white horse...

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                              • canefan
                                canefan @Bovidae last edited by

                                @Bovidae said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                @Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.

                                It's not like NZC and Stead to make the wrong decision is it? 😉

                                I guess this also means that Kane to determined to continue to cash in on T20s if possible.

                                Only problem is he's a shit T20 player now

                                Bovidae 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Chris
                                  Chris last edited by

                                  Well our on field Reviews are not going to last long with Southee as Captain if he is bowling everything is out.

                                  But I see the logic in the Captain change take the Workload of Kane fresh ideas,but I think it should have been the 20/20 Captaincy he relinquished as that is were he is most vulnerable.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Bovidae
                                    Bovidae @canefan last edited by

                                    @canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                    Only problem is he's a shit T20 player now

                                    That's my point. He should be moving away from T20s, not tests, but the money is in the former. Stead hasn't got the balls to make the hard call himself.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • No Quarter
                                      No Quarter last edited by

                                      Seems to hit at Kane playing less test cricket moving forward. Probably a combination of his elbow injury and $$ informing that decision. Hell of a shame though as his best format is the test arena.

                                      MN5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • MN5
                                        MN5 @No Quarter last edited by MN5

                                        @No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                        Seems to hit at Kane playing less test cricket moving forward. Probably a combination of his elbow injury and $$ informing that decision. Hell of a shame though as his best format is the test arena.

                                        For sure. There’s loads of examples of guys being brilliant at one format and not so crash hot at others. KWs test returns are the kind of stuff I as a fan could only dream of after Crowe had retired in the 90s and we had a succession of journeymen ( and that’s being kind to lots of them )

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Kiwiwomble
                                          Kiwiwomble @Crazy Horse last edited by Kiwiwomble

                                          @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                          Has Southee got much longer in him? Seems like he has been around for ever.

                                          when i saw the thread title i thought he was also retiring for the same reasons!....never corssed my mind he was taking over

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • B
                                            bayimports last edited by

                                            Well if Southee doesn't continue with the current defensive captaincy tactics and selection then I am ok with it, even if it only lasts for a summer before he probably retires..

                                            MN5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • No Quarter
                                              No Quarter last edited by

                                              Southee is definitely the right pick, he's always been at the heart of the team tactics anyway so makes sense to give him the reigns for a couple of years. I don't think anyone is really screaming out as captain material, Latham hasn't been great when he's led the team, I think Southee will be a lot more proactive in the field.

                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                              • MN5
                                                MN5 @bayimports last edited by

                                                @bayimports said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                Well if Southee doesn't continue with the current defensive captaincy tactics and selection then I am ok with it, even if it only lasts for a summer before he probably retires..

                                                Who’s next ? Who are other options ?

                                                It would be nice if Southee got some tips from James Anderson on longevity, if he did that he has another 5 + years in him.

                                                His improvement over the years from ordinary pace bowler who does well in English conditions to current number two in the world has been absolutely remarkable.

                                                B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                • B
                                                  bayimports @MN5 last edited by

                                                  @MN5 I think he is far more positive than Latham but at 34, he can't be far off retirement. Who is next captain, I dont know? I would like to see someone more aggressive. Doesn't appear to be any obvious choices.. only just become a kiwi, but is it Conway?

                                                  canefan MN5 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                  • canefan
                                                    canefan @bayimports last edited by canefan

                                                    @bayimports said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                    @MN5 I think he is far more positive than Latham but at 34, he can't be far off retirement. Who is next captain, I dont know? I would like to see someone more aggressive. Doesn't appear to be any obvious choices.. only just become a kiwi, but is it Conway?

                                                    So is Timmy's elevation over Latham a strike against Tommy's chances at the top job?

                                                    B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • No Quarter
                                                      No Quarter last edited by

                                                      Cool stat

                                                      MN5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                      • MN5
                                                        MN5 @No Quarter last edited by

                                                        @No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                        Cool stat

                                                        I used to like it when they interviewed Francis Payne on the Dilmah tea party. Definitely on the spectrum ( as I suppose you have to be to find out stats like that )

                                                        Onya Kane. Some illustrious company there.

                                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                        • MN5
                                                          MN5 @bayimports last edited by

                                                          @bayimports said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                          @MN5 I think he is far more positive than Latham but at 34, he can't be far off retirement. Who is next captain, I dont know? I would like to see someone more aggressive. Doesn't appear to be any obvious choices.. only just become a kiwi, but is it Conway?

                                                          I’d rather Conway prove he is truly world class as opposed to a battler who has had a fantastic start to his test career.

                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                          • B
                                                            bayimports @canefan last edited by

                                                            @canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                            @bayimports said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                            @MN5 I think he is far more positive than Latham but at 34, he can't be far off retirement. Who is next captain, I dont know? I would like to see someone more aggressive. Doesn't appear to be any obvious choices.. only just become a kiwi, but is it Conway?

                                                            So is Timmy's elevation over Latham a strike against Tommy's chances at the top job?

                                                            Tommy is still vice captain and will still have his chances, the cynic in me still feels this looks like a nod to give Southee a shot before he retires..

                                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                            • MN5
                                                              MN5 last edited by MN5

                                                              Changing the subject ( in a thread I started so it’s ok )

                                                              Can anyone tell me about Blair Tickner and try and justify why he’s in the team ?

                                                              He screams “journeyman” more than John Mitchell in his days as AB coach telling us we’re going on a “journey”

                                                              From the glory days of the mid 2010s I’m really feeling we’re getting that inevitable decline ( a far cry from the Windies or Sri Lanka thankfully ) where guys get selected on the back of some pretty ordinary first class numbers.

                                                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                              • D
                                                                delicatessen last edited by

                                                                Maybe I'm dreaming, but it looks slightly to me like they're aiming at a more aggressive approach to tests. I can see the temptation with the Bazball success thus far, but I can't see it working if they half-arse it.

                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                • ACT Crusader
                                                                  ACT Crusader @MN5 last edited by

                                                                  @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                  @nzzp said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                  @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                  But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains

                                                                  spot on - their best batsman is inevitably the captain. Paine and then Cummins are the first to really break that for decades I think

                                                                  Was Tubby the best ? Probably not. Can’t argue with the rest though.

                                                                  Let’s not forget that Taylor burst on the scene with a flurry of runs - 6 hundreds including a double ton, plus 8 half centuries after a dozen or so tests. He was pretty consistent thereafter but then probably got the captains curse and his batting somewhat suffered. Got some injuries as well if I recall because I remember Waugh captaining on a couple of tours before Taylor eventually retired.

                                                                  But I always thought that Taylor would be the natural successor of Border.

                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                  • No Quarter
                                                                    No Quarter last edited by

                                                                    Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.

                                                                    Crazy Horse 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                                    • No Quarter
                                                                      No Quarter last edited by

                                                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                      • Crazy Horse
                                                                        Crazy Horse @No Quarter last edited by

                                                                        @No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                        Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.

                                                                        I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.

                                                                        canefan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                        • canefan
                                                                          canefan @Crazy Horse last edited by

                                                                          @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                          @No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                          Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.

                                                                          I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.

                                                                          He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level

                                                                          Crazy Horse 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                          • Crazy Horse
                                                                            Crazy Horse @canefan last edited by

                                                                            @canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                            @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                            @No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                            Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.

                                                                            I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.

                                                                            He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level

                                                                            Definitely the better bat, no argument there.

                                                                            canefan MN5 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                            • canefan
                                                                              canefan @Crazy Horse last edited by

                                                                              @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                              @canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                              @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                              @No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                              Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.

                                                                              I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.

                                                                              He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level

                                                                              Definitely the better bat, no argument there.

                                                                              The team we had in the year leading up to the WTC win was probably the best we've ever had. He made good solid decisions as well but the team was stacked. Contrast some of his decisions in the recent Oz T20 series and the T20 WC, maybe it's just that T20 isn't his strong suit

                                                                              MN5 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                              • MN5
                                                                                MN5 @Crazy Horse last edited by

                                                                                @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                @canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                @No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.

                                                                                I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.

                                                                                He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level

                                                                                Definitely the better bat, no argument there.

                                                                                Night and day.

                                                                                I appreciated McCullum when he was on but he had a shitload of troughs in his career too.

                                                                                B 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                • MN5
                                                                                  MN5 @canefan last edited by

                                                                                  @canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                  @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                  @canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                  @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                  @No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                  Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.

                                                                                  I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.

                                                                                  He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level

                                                                                  Definitely the better bat, no argument there.

                                                                                  The team we had in the year leading up to the WTC win was probably the best we've ever had. He made good solid decisions as well but the team was stacked. Contrast some of his decisions in the recent Oz T20 series and the T20 WC, maybe it's just that T20 isn't his strong suit

                                                                                  No probables, definitely.

                                                                                  Most of them are firmly in the discussion for best test XI of all time.

                                                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                  • B
                                                                                    bayimports @MN5 last edited by

                                                                                    @MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                    @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                    @canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                    @Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                    @No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:

                                                                                    Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.

                                                                                    I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.

                                                                                    He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level

                                                                                    Definitely the better bat, no argument there.

                                                                                    Night and day.

                                                                                    I appreciated McCullum when he was on but he had a shitload of troughs in his career too.

                                                                                    absolutely, there was a period though when Baz was captain and Kane was scoring well which was my favourite combo. Even the fielders were rushing in and the whole whole team was positive. Obviously we also had Boult and Southee playing their part too..but that was my favourite era. We had dropped the sledging but played hard.

                                                                                    Kane kept that energy up for a little bit and now it has reverted to defensive test cricket approach. Hopefully Kane puts on some massive innings to help whoever is captain as I hate saying anything negative about the bloke..he is still a legend and would always like to think of him that way.

                                                                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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