Kane Williamson and Tim Southee
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Deserves it’s own thread if true.
Did NOT see this one coming !!!!!
Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )
If it helps KWs batting then I’m all for it.
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Weird.
Latham has always captained the test side when Williamson has been unavailable.
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@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )
Pat Cummins is the incumbent for Oz at the moment.
When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.
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@Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )
Pat Cummins is the incumbent for Oz at the moment.
When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.
Great point.
But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains ( Border, Taylor, Waugh, Ponting, Clarke, Smith ) so it’s definitely unusual
Ours is….um….less impressive but the principle is the same !
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@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )
Pat Cummins is the incumbent for Oz at the moment.
When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.
Great point.
But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains ( Border, Taylor, Waugh, Ponting, Clarke, Smith ) so it’s definitely unusual
Ours is….um….less impressive but the principle is the same !
From a spin bowling point of view we did have that stellar period of Dan Vettori captaining, being the best bowler, batting in the middle order, and driving the team bus...
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@Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.
It's not like NZC and Stead to make the wrong decision is it?
I guess this also means that Kane is determined to continue to cash in on T20s if possible.
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Has Southee got much longer in him? Seems like he has been around for ever.
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@Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )
Pat Cummins is the incumbent for Oz at the moment.
When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.
Great point.
But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains ( Border, Taylor, Waugh, Ponting, Clarke, Smith ) so it’s definitely unusual
Ours is….um….less impressive but the principle is the same !
From a spin bowling point of view we did have that stellar period of Dan Vettori captaining, being the best bowler, batting in the middle order, and driving the team bus...
I don’t count him cos ( rather embarrassingly ) he was one of the better batsmen in the team during his reign.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Has Southee got much longer in him? Seems like he has been around for ever.
this is the most important question really.
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@Crazy-Horse 34 this week so two years older than Kane.
Has been around forever. I mean his first captain was Fleming FFS, but he keeps himself fit so might fill in for a couple of seasons. Also, might blow up in his next test and be forced to retire so bit of a risk.
Surprised it's not Latham as he's only 30.
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@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains
spot on - their best batsman is inevitably the captain. Paine and then Cummins are the first to really break that for decades I think
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@nzzp said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains
spot on - their best batsman is inevitably the captain. Paine and then Cummins are the first to really break that for decades I think
Was Tubby the best ? Probably not. Can’t argue with the rest though.
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@Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Still very unusual to see a pace bowler given the captaincy at test level, who has done it….Bob Willis ? Courtney Walsh ? Shaun Pollock ( well, he was an all rounder )
Pat Cummins is the incumbent for Oz at the moment.
When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.
Great point.
But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains ( Border, Taylor, Waugh, Ponting, Clarke, Smith ) so it’s definitely unusual
Ours is….um….less impressive but the principle is the same !
From a spin bowling point of view we did have that stellar period of Dan Vettori captaining, being the best bowler, batting in the middle order, and driving the team bus...
As one Aussie commentator said at the time - he should come out onto the pitch on a white horse...
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@Bovidae said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@Donsteppa said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
When I saw the rumours on Twitter earlier I was thinking Kane might give up captaincy in the shorter forms, not the longer, but either way it's a good move.
It's not like NZC and Stead to make the wrong decision is it?
I guess this also means that Kane to determined to continue to cash in on T20s if possible.
Only problem is he's a shit T20 player now
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Well our on field Reviews are not going to last long with Southee as Captain if he is bowling everything is out.
But I see the logic in the Captain change take the Workload of Kane fresh ideas,but I think it should have been the 20/20 Captaincy he relinquished as that is were he is most vulnerable.
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@canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Only problem is he's a shit T20 player now
That's my point. He should be moving away from T20s, not tests, but the money is in the former. Stead hasn't got the balls to make the hard call himself.
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Seems to hit at Kane playing less test cricket moving forward. Probably a combination of his elbow injury and $$ informing that decision. Hell of a shame though as his best format is the test arena.
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@No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Seems to hit at Kane playing less test cricket moving forward. Probably a combination of his elbow injury and $$ informing that decision. Hell of a shame though as his best format is the test arena.
For sure. There’s loads of examples of guys being brilliant at one format and not so crash hot at others. KWs test returns are the kind of stuff I as a fan could only dream of after Crowe had retired in the 90s and we had a succession of journeymen ( and that’s being kind to lots of them )
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@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Has Southee got much longer in him? Seems like he has been around for ever.
when i saw the thread title i thought he was also retiring for the same reasons!....never corssed my mind he was taking over
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Well if Southee doesn't continue with the current defensive captaincy tactics and selection then I am ok with it, even if it only lasts for a summer before he probably retires..
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Southee is definitely the right pick, he's always been at the heart of the team tactics anyway so makes sense to give him the reigns for a couple of years. I don't think anyone is really screaming out as captain material, Latham hasn't been great when he's led the team, I think Southee will be a lot more proactive in the field.
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@bayimports said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Well if Southee doesn't continue with the current defensive captaincy tactics and selection then I am ok with it, even if it only lasts for a summer before he probably retires..
Who’s next ? Who are other options ?
It would be nice if Southee got some tips from James Anderson on longevity, if he did that he has another 5 + years in him.
His improvement over the years from ordinary pace bowler who does well in English conditions to current number two in the world has been absolutely remarkable.
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@MN5 I think he is far more positive than Latham but at 34, he can't be far off retirement. Who is next captain, I dont know? I would like to see someone more aggressive. Doesn't appear to be any obvious choices.. only just become a kiwi, but is it Conway?
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@bayimports said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@MN5 I think he is far more positive than Latham but at 34, he can't be far off retirement. Who is next captain, I dont know? I would like to see someone more aggressive. Doesn't appear to be any obvious choices.. only just become a kiwi, but is it Conway?
So is Timmy's elevation over Latham a strike against Tommy's chances at the top job?
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@No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Cool stat
I used to like it when they interviewed Francis Payne on the Dilmah tea party. Definitely on the spectrum ( as I suppose you have to be to find out stats like that )
Onya Kane. Some illustrious company there.
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@bayimports said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@MN5 I think he is far more positive than Latham but at 34, he can't be far off retirement. Who is next captain, I dont know? I would like to see someone more aggressive. Doesn't appear to be any obvious choices.. only just become a kiwi, but is it Conway?
I’d rather Conway prove he is truly world class as opposed to a battler who has had a fantastic start to his test career.
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@canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@bayimports said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@MN5 I think he is far more positive than Latham but at 34, he can't be far off retirement. Who is next captain, I dont know? I would like to see someone more aggressive. Doesn't appear to be any obvious choices.. only just become a kiwi, but is it Conway?
So is Timmy's elevation over Latham a strike against Tommy's chances at the top job?
Tommy is still vice captain and will still have his chances, the cynic in me still feels this looks like a nod to give Southee a shot before he retires..
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Changing the subject ( in a thread I started so it’s ok )
Can anyone tell me about Blair Tickner and try and justify why he’s in the team ?
He screams “journeyman” more than John Mitchell in his days as AB coach telling us we’re going on a “journey”
From the glory days of the mid 2010s I’m really feeling we’re getting that inevitable decline ( a far cry from the Windies or Sri Lanka thankfully ) where guys get selected on the back of some pretty ordinary first class numbers.
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Maybe I'm dreaming, but it looks slightly to me like they're aiming at a more aggressive approach to tests. I can see the temptation with the Bazball success thus far, but I can't see it working if they half-arse it.
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@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@nzzp said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
But Oz themselves have a tradition of fantastic batsmen as captains
spot on - their best batsman is inevitably the captain. Paine and then Cummins are the first to really break that for decades I think
Was Tubby the best ? Probably not. Can’t argue with the rest though.
Let’s not forget that Taylor burst on the scene with a flurry of runs - 6 hundreds including a double ton, plus 8 half centuries after a dozen or so tests. He was pretty consistent thereafter but then probably got the captains curse and his batting somewhat suffered. Got some injuries as well if I recall because I remember Waugh captaining on a couple of tours before Taylor eventually retired.
But I always thought that Taylor would be the natural successor of Border.
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Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.
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@No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.
I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.
I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.
He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level
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@canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.
I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.
He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level
Definitely the better bat, no argument there.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.
I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.
He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level
Definitely the better bat, no argument there.
The team we had in the year leading up to the WTC win was probably the best we've ever had. He made good solid decisions as well but the team was stacked. Contrast some of his decisions in the recent Oz T20 series and the T20 WC, maybe it's just that T20 isn't his strong suit
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@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.
I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.
He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level
Definitely the better bat, no argument there.
Night and day.
I appreciated McCullum when he was on but he had a shitload of troughs in his career too.
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@canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.
I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.
He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level
Definitely the better bat, no argument there.
The team we had in the year leading up to the WTC win was probably the best we've ever had. He made good solid decisions as well but the team was stacked. Contrast some of his decisions in the recent Oz T20 series and the T20 WC, maybe it's just that T20 isn't his strong suit
No probables, definitely.
Most of them are firmly in the discussion for best test XI of all time.
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@MN5 said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@canefan said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@Crazy-Horse said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
@No-Quarter said in Kane Williamson and Tim Southee:
Also, 22 wins in 40 tests with 10 draws is absolutely phenomenal, what a golden age for NZ test cricket. Then you add the test championship on top of that and he's easily our GOAT captain.
I don't think he is a great captain. Not a poor one by any stretch, but in my lifetime I reckon we have had better.
He is quite a passive captain, whereas Baz was bolder. But Kane is a far superior batsman, especially at test level
Definitely the better bat, no argument there.
Night and day.
I appreciated McCullum when he was on but he had a shitload of troughs in his career too.
absolutely, there was a period though when Baz was captain and Kane was scoring well which was my favourite combo. Even the fielders were rushing in and the whole whole team was positive. Obviously we also had Boult and Southee playing their part too..but that was my favourite era. We had dropped the sledging but played hard.
Kane kept that energy up for a little bit and now it has reverted to defensive test cricket approach. Hopefully Kane puts on some massive innings to help whoever is captain as I hate saying anything negative about the bloke..he is still a legend and would always like to think of him that way.
