Iron-Voodoo
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In 2022 I did the Port Macquarie 70.3 - for those not familiar with the vernacular, that's a half-ironman. 1.9km swim, 90km bike, 21.1km run (it adds up to 70.3 when converted to miles)
This was my 2nd half, and in a moment of post-event glow, I decided that 2023 was the year I'd have a go at a full ironman.
For those without a calculator, that's a 3.8km swim, 180km ride, and 42.2km run.
Yikes
By way of pedigree (ha ha), I've done 2 x half-ironman races (2014 and 2022), and 1 x marathon (can't remember the year, but 4-5 years ago I guess). The triathlon times were both pretty slow, around 6 hours I believe - 2014 I was really fit but it was 37 degrees and I totally fcked the race, and 2022 I didn't train very hard so went very slow to make sure I survived.
Marathon was done in 3:53 I think.
I'm a decent sized unit at 6'2 and 100kgs, so not really built for these events, but whatever - I see footage of older, less-fit (looking), fatter people than me completing them.
So here we are. I had planned to make January a big training month, but a couple of injuries got in the way. But I now feel good, and am planning a dry-Feb to really make some progress.
Target is just to finish the race - if I can do it in 14-15 hours, that would be great - but just crossing the line will be enough, given that just getting to the start line seems a challenge right now!
Key for me will be dropping 8-10kgs by changing my diet (cutting down drastically on booze and oversized late night meals) - I don't mind the training side of it, it's the indulgences that have to go.
I'll post a few recent workouts and a few going forward - wish me luck!
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@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
In 2022 I did the Port Macquarie 70.3 - for those not familiar with the vernacular, that's a half-ironman. 1.9km swim, 90km bike, 21.1km run (it adds up to 70.3 when converted to miles)
This was my 2nd half, and in a moment of post-event glow, I decided that 2023 was the year I'd have a go at a full ironman.
For those without a calculator, that's a 3.8km swim, 180km ride, and 42.2km run.
Yikes
By way of pedigree (ha ha), I've done 2 x half-ironman races (2014 and 2022), and 1 x marathon (can't remember the year, but 4-5 years ago I guess). The triathlon times were both pretty slow, around 6 hours I believe - 2014 I was really fit but it was 37 degrees and I totally fcked the race, and 2022 I didn't train very hard so went very slow to make sure I survived.
Marathon was done in 3:53 I think.
I'm a decent sized unit at 6'2 and 100kgs, so not really built for these events, but whatever - I see footage of older, less-fit (looking), fatter people than me completing them.
So here we are. I had planned to make January a big training month, but a couple of injuries got in the way. But I now feel good, and am planning a dry-Feb to really make some progress.
Target is just to finish the race - if I can do it in 14-15 hours, that would be great - but just crossing the line will be enough, given that just getting to the start line seems a challenge right now!
Key for me will be dropping 8-10kgs by changing my diet (cutting down drastically on booze and oversized late night meals) - I don't mind the training side of it, it's the indulgences that have to go.
I'll post a few recent workouts and a few going forward - wish me luck!
Wholly fuck. Good luck man. No advice, just admiration that you are brave enough to give this a try!
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Hey MajorRage, that thunder of yours looks nice, I'll take it thanks.
Just kidding, good luck fella. Looking forward to going through hell together!
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@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
In 2022 I did the Port Macquarie 70.3 - for those not familiar with the vernacular, that's a half-ironman. 1.9km swim, 90km bike, 21.1km run (it adds up to 70.3 when converted to miles)
This was my 2nd half, and in a moment of post-event glow, I decided that 2023 was the year I'd have a go at a full ironman.
For those without a calculator, that's a 3.8km swim, 180km ride, and 42.2km run.
Yikes
By way of pedigree (ha ha), I've done 2 x half-ironman races (2014 and 2022), and 1 x marathon (can't remember the year, but 4-5 years ago I guess). The triathlon times were both pretty slow, around 6 hours I believe - 2014 I was really fit but it was 37 degrees and I totally fcked the race, and 2022 I didn't train very hard so went very slow to make sure I survived.
Marathon was done in 3:53 I think.
I'm a decent sized unit at 6'2 and 100kgs, so not really built for these events, but whatever - I see footage of older, less-fit (looking), fatter people than me completing them.
So here we are. I had planned to make January a big training month, but a couple of injuries got in the way. But I now feel good, and am planning a dry-Feb to really make some progress.
Target is just to finish the race - if I can do it in 14-15 hours, that would be great - but just crossing the line will be enough, given that just getting to the start line seems a challenge right now!
Key for me will be dropping 8-10kgs by changing my diet (cutting down drastically on booze and oversized late night meals) - I don't mind the training side of it, it's the indulgences that have to go.
I'll post a few recent workouts and a few going forward - wish me luck!
Normally I'd say you're fůcking mad, but you have the muscle memory and experience. Good luck.
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Good luck! My 2p worth: 1. quality rather than quantity of training (though don’t skip your ‘long’ session each week) 2. Get yourself a good training plan (I used Fink) but use it as a guide only. 3. Practice your race nutrition over and over again (my pref was a water bottle filled with decanted gels, until the run. Solid food can give you problems). 4. Get into the habit of a short brick run after each training ride. 5. Always have something left in the tank for the run, no matter how good you might feel. It’s not like running a normal marathon; it’s fucking attritional. My longest training run was a half marathon and I pumped out a 3:50 run on my last IM (as a 82kg 44 yo) by not getting caught up in the moment and just running to my steady virtual partner pace the whole way. 6. It’s going to hurt. A lot.
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@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
Good luck! My 2p worth: 1. quality rather than quantity of training (though don’t skip your ‘long’ session each week) 2. Get yourself a good training plan (I used Fink) but use it as a guide only. 3. Practice your race nutrition over and over again (my pref was a water bottle filled with decanted gels, until the run. Solid food can give you problems). 4. Get into the habit of a short brick run after each training ride. 5. Always have something left in the tank for the run, no matter how good you might feel. It’s not like running a normal marathon; it’s fucking attritional. My longest training run was a half marathon and I pumped out a 3:50 run on my last IM (as a 82kg 44 yo) by not getting caught up in the moment and just running to my steady virtual partner pace the whole way. 6. It’s going to hurt. A lot.
Legend, thanks!
I’ll probably ask a bunch of questions, feel free to ignore them 😁
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@voodoo no problem. I’m no coach or super experienced; I’ve done a couple of IM (same race both times). The difference between the first and second was light years in terms of knowledge and lessons learned (and I was a reasonably experienced age grouper in shorter distances).
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6 hours is not slow you bragging fluffybunny
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@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
In 2022 I did the Port Macquarie 70.3 - for those not familiar with the vernacular, that's a half-ironman. 1.9km swim, 90km bike, 21.1km run (it adds up to 70.3 when converted to miles)
This was my 2nd half, and in a moment of post-event glow, I decided that 2023 was the year I'd have a go at a full ironman.
For those without a calculator, that's a 3.8km swim, 180km ride, and 42.2km run.
Yikes
By way of pedigree (ha ha), I've done 2 x half-ironman races (2014 and 2022), and 1 x marathon (can't remember the year, but 4-5 years ago I guess). The triathlon times were both pretty slow, around 6 hours I believe - 2014 I was really fit but it was 37 degrees and I totally fcked the race, and 2022 I didn't train very hard so went very slow to make sure I survived.
Marathon was done in 3:53 I think.
I'm a decent sized unit at 6'2 and 100kgs, so not really built for these events, but whatever - I see footage of older, less-fit (looking), fatter people than me completing them.
So here we are. I had planned to make January a big training month, but a couple of injuries got in the way. But I now feel good, and am planning a dry-Feb to really make some progress.
Target is just to finish the race - if I can do it in 14-15 hours, that would be great - but just crossing the line will be enough, given that just getting to the start line seems a challenge right now!
Key for me will be dropping 8-10kgs by changing my diet (cutting down drastically on booze and oversized late night meals) - I don't mind the training side of it, it's the indulgences that have to go.
I'll post a few recent workouts and a few going forward - wish me luck!
That’s a man after my own heart, outstanding stats.
Fuck doing an Ironman though, I’ll leave that up to you.
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legend, hat off to you good sir!
I know a guy that has done a number of full Iron Man, and seeing the work he puts in, puts me off haha, so to even do half that is too much for me!
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am I too late to stage an intervention!! Get this man a meat pie, a bag of chips, and a full sugar 2.25 litre coke!
Actually, shitty kai intake aside, you'd be able to manage that on such a high workrate. Ya bastard!
Awesome work on completing your second half bro! That is impressive, especially as you're in the big rig category! Endurance racing is addictive (or so I hear lol) and I can see the appeal of going for a full ironman.
Keep us posted on training mate - I find the training stuff fascinating when people are preparing for these massive races. "Just ran a light/easy 20km into a headwind - felt ok but forgot my shoes, lol" you fit punks!!
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So quick training baseline:
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I started the year at 102kgs, thinking I had 4 months to train
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wasn't running much in Dec (idea was to drop some weight before picking up running distance), was riding 80-100kms, and able to swim 2-3km at a very slow clip
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Jan was supposed a big month of healthy eating, weight loss, and a big uptick in training
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went away the first weekend with Voodoo Jnr whose band was playing a music festival - he's only 13 so I had to be close but not there the whole time, so I took the bike and did 2 x 115km rides on consecutive days
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I had thought you couldn't injure yourself riding, but apparently you can - stressed the knee a fair bit so cost myself 2 weeks
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away on hols last week and got back into the running - 3 x 8km runs at 5:12/km / 4:57/km / 5:06/km pace, plus a set with Miss Voodoo Jnr which involved some fartlek - 5 x 3mins hard (c. 4:05/km) with 1 min off between sets - 1km WU and 1km WD. Bloody good to be out running again.
Last night I looked at a training plan I downloaded a couple of months ago, and it says I'm supposed to be doing a 28km run this Sunday - so I found a new training plan...
Lots of work to do in the next 3 months if I'm going to get close to finishing this thing.
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@voodoo re knee pain: have you had a decent bike fit done? Are you on a road bike, road bike with clip on aero bars, or a TT? In any case, get a bike fit if you haven’t already done so (eg Retul). It’s money well spent and being able to hold a good, reasonably aero position for 180km will help with the speed/energy trade off.
The more quality riding you can do as part of your plan, the better. Pumping out a good bike split whilst saving your legs for the attritional marathon, is key in my view.
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@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo re knee pain: have you had a decent bike fit done? Are you on a road bike, road bike with clip on aero bars, or a TT? In any case, get a bike fit if you haven’t already done so (eg Retul). It’s money well spent and being able to hold a good, reasonably aero position for 180km will help with the speed/energy trade off.
The more quality riding you can do as part of your plan, the better. Pumping out a good bike split whilst saving your legs for the attritional marathon, is key in my view.
I haven't had a bike fit in years - not since the bike shop did some assessment for size when I bought my current ride (so never actually a proper fit). I have a roadie, Focus Izalco, a few years old with clip-on aero bars - to be fair, I don't really use the bars much as my gut makes it a bit uncomfortable
The 2 x rides I did around Orange the other week I had to do with only the small ring - so was great for getting my cadence up, but probably not optimal for performance...I wondered if that might have contributed to the knee issue too. I have since had the shifter replaced, I'm back to all 22 gears
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@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo re knee pain: have you had a decent bike fit done? Are you on a road bike, road bike with clip on aero bars, or a TT? In any case, get a bike fit if you haven’t already done so (eg Retul). It’s money well spent and being able to hold a good, reasonably aero position for 180km will help with the speed/energy trade off.
The more quality riding you can do as part of your plan, the better. Pumping out a good bike split whilst saving your legs for the attritional marathon, is key in my view.
I haven't had a bike fit in years - not since the bike shop did some assessment for size when I bought my current ride (so never actually a proper fit). I have a roadie, Focus Izalco, a few years old with clip-on aero bars - to be fair, I don't really use the bars much as my gut makes it a bit uncomfortable
The 2 x rides I did around Orange the other week I had to do with only the small ring - so was great for getting my cadence up, but probably not optimal for performance...I wondered if that might have contributed to the knee issue too. I have since had the shifter replaced, I'm back to all 22 gears
is that bike 2 x 11? I dont know much about those lycra carrying style of bikes
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@JK said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo re knee pain: have you had a decent bike fit done? Are you on a road bike, road bike with clip on aero bars, or a TT? In any case, get a bike fit if you haven’t already done so (eg Retul). It’s money well spent and being able to hold a good, reasonably aero position for 180km will help with the speed/energy trade off.
The more quality riding you can do as part of your plan, the better. Pumping out a good bike split whilst saving your legs for the attritional marathon, is key in my view.
I haven't had a bike fit in years - not since the bike shop did some assessment for size when I bought my current ride (so never actually a proper fit). I have a roadie, Focus Izalco, a few years old with clip-on aero bars - to be fair, I don't really use the bars much as my gut makes it a bit uncomfortable
The 2 x rides I did around Orange the other week I had to do with only the small ring - so was great for getting my cadence up, but probably not optimal for performance...I wondered if that might have contributed to the knee issue too. I have since had the shifter replaced, I'm back to all 22 gears
is that bike 2 x 11? I dont know much about those lycra carrying style of bikes
Yep, 11 on the back and 2 on the front for 22. Having just the small ring didn’t matter on the climbs but it was average on everything else
And we all know you wear Lycra on your bush-bike
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@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
And we all know you wear Lycra on your bush-bike
Dont need no lycra to attract the ladies when ya look like this
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@JK said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
And we all know you wear Lycra on your bush-bike
Dont need no lycra to attract the ladies when ya look like this
So very true.
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Fuck
The dodgy mo, the blowfly glasses, and the skew wiff helmet.
I bet there are soaked panties all over the northern MB trails
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@mariner4life said in Iron-Voodoo:
Fuck
The dodgy mo, the blowfly glasses, and the skew wiff helmet.
I bet there are soaked panties all over the northern MB trails
Ginga facial hair should be illegal.
People tell me that all the time, luckily it’s starting to go grey.
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@mariner4life said in Iron-Voodoo:
Fuck
The dodgy mo, the blowfly glasses, and the skew wiff helmet.
I bet there are soaked panties all over the northern MB trails
That skew helmet was due to having a bit of a crash not much earlier actually. Must have skidded out on one of the many soaked panties!
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@JK said in Iron-Voodoo:
@mariner4life said in Iron-Voodoo:
Fuck
The dodgy mo, the blowfly glasses, and the skew wiff helmet.
I bet there are soaked panties all over the northern MB trails
That skew helmet was due to having a bit of a crash not much earlier actually. Must have skidded out on one of the many soaked panties!
they can be slick
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@mariner4life said in Iron-Voodoo:
@JK said in Iron-Voodoo:
@mariner4life said in Iron-Voodoo:
Fuck
The dodgy mo, the blowfly glasses, and the skew wiff helmet.
I bet there are soaked panties all over the northern MB trails
That skew helmet was due to having a bit of a crash not much earlier actually. Must have skidded out on one of the many soaked panties!
they can be slick
And that sir is why I grew the mo....
Apologies @voodoo back to your training regime...
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@JK said in Iron-Voodoo:
@mariner4life said in Iron-Voodoo:
@JK said in Iron-Voodoo:
@mariner4life said in Iron-Voodoo:
Fuck
The dodgy mo, the blowfly glasses, and the skew wiff helmet.
I bet there are soaked panties all over the northern MB trails
That skew helmet was due to having a bit of a crash not much earlier actually. Must have skidded out on one of the many soaked panties!
they can be slick
And that sir is why I grew the mo....
Apologies @voodoo back to your training regime...
a most welcome diversion
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OK, 2 weeks later.
Had a go at Dry Feb, didn't go so well. Have been better on the food intake though, down to 98.5kgs this morning - another 6kgs to go ideally.
Training a mixed bag:
- Have done a couple of 10km runs at c. 5:05/km pace - it's been bloody hot and humid so not ideal for anything longer
- got on the trainer once and had the same knee/quad issue the next few days - so having to dial the riding right back, will be starting 30 minute sessions at low power and building slowly
- Swimming plodding along, trying to get to squad once per week (c. 3km drill sessions over 75mins or so)
This week will be short run today (Edit - complete, 5.5kms @ 4:37/km), swimming squad tomorrow morning, short ride on the trainer Thursday, then a long run Friday/Sat. I need to slow the runs down to closer to race pace and get the endurance up - will aim for a 90min run this week at about 5:20/km I think
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Decent week just gone:
- 2km in the pool last Monday, slow as hell, but getting through it
- put some pace in the legs with a 5.5km run Tuesday at 4:37/km - nice to run quicker again
- swimming squad Wednesday, 2.7km of drills and a pathetically slow 100m time trial - I was the last finisher in the entire squad with a 1:50
- Thursday was a 7.5km run on grass and trails while my daughter did her running squad, 5:26/km
- Friday rest day
- Saturday I spun the legs out on the trainer, nothing crazy, but felt OK so I think I am ready to pick that up again
- Sunday was a 15.3km run at 5:15/km - nice to lift the distance, felt Ok though am sore today
Will try and swim today, but am coming off 5 hours sleep courtesy of the concert I took my last to last night - priorities!
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That’s impressive mate. I started swimming a little while again (just once a week) and so far can only get about a kilometer before I drop my balls.
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@gt12 I didn’t do any swim technique as a kid, so I’m terrible. It’s a weird sport, I feel like I can swim at a super slow 2:20/100m for ages, like 4km probably. But when I try to “sprint”, I just make a shit tonne more splash and barely go any faster 😁
If you think about your running pace and going from a 4km to a 100m, you should be going almost twice as fast over the 100m (pulling a hammy aside).
And yet in the pool my time goes from 2:20 pace to 1:50 pace - bloody ludicrous for the additional effort!
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Decent last 7 days, feeling OK but clearly need to lift, especially on the ride. Diet good on the food front, poor on the booze intake – standard story.
- Monday – rest day
- Tuesday – circuit at the gym, created 3 days of hurt for all those lady-muscles that you never usually exercise
- Wednesday – swim squad, 3.1kms of drills, pretty hard work
- Thursday – run in the city, 8.15kms at 5:11/km
- Friday – mini-brick, short session on the trainer then a 3km run at 5:08/km
- Saturday – flat out with kids stuff so forced rest day
- Sunday – 19.65km long run at 5:13/km – I really should slow these longer runs down
So solid enough output, but I really need to get back on the bike again and punch out some 130-150km rides (with a run off the back). Need to practice nutrition and get the endurance aspect going again.
Challenge is the kids activities show bugger all signs of slowing down and the wife has just taken a new job that involves some interstate travel every fortnight. Have to be more disciplined - story of my life I guess.
Weighed in at 97.5kgs this morning though, so that's 4.5kgs off my 2023 starting weight - at least that's something!
68 days to go…
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@voodoo nice work mate but imo yes you need to focus more on the bike. All that running prep won’t count for much if your ring piece is hanging out after a 180km slog.
Maybe use the trainer more during the week? 2 hr sessions doing this at say zone 2 pace is boring AF but it’s also good mental training. Then a short run brick each time. Do a long ride at the weekend.
Being in a good place after the bike leg is the absolute key to success. The run is so attritional both mentally and physically.
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@scribe yep, have been nervous on the bike after the last 2 efforts blew my knee/quad up for days afterwards. But had a easing-back session last night, 75mins doing the Matt Hayman Paris Roubaix on Zwift, some decent efforts. Woke up with knees feeling great today, so Sat I’ll be back on the road for 100km+ or if raining (it looks shit) will be on the trainer for 2 hours instead
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@voodoo one other thing I’m not sure I’ve mentioned, find yourself a good sports massage therapist. Have an intensive session now on all the big cycling muscles and lighter session maybe 3 weeks out. Invaluable and it may sort out some of the niggles you’re experiencing. If you’ve not had a proper session you’re in for a real treat! Most definitely no happy ending.
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@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo one other thing I’m not sure I’ve mentioned, find yourself a good sports massage therapist. Have an intensive session now on all the big cycling muscles and lighter session maybe 3 weeks out. Invaluable and it may sort out some of the niggles you’re experiencing. If you’ve not had a proper session you’re in for a real treat! Most definitely no happy ending.
I got one on Monday! The massage that is, not the happy ending. I'm a complete wimp when it comes to massage so it was 60mins of fucking agony - barely even massage, more like poking and elbowing and leaning on me with sharp parts of her body. It would be bloody funny to see a time-lapse of my face grimacing through the session!
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@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo one other thing I’m not sure I’ve mentioned, find yourself a good sports massage therapist. Have an intensive session now on all the big cycling muscles and lighter session maybe 3 weeks out. Invaluable and it may sort out some of the niggles you’re experiencing. If you’ve not had a proper session you’re in for a real treat! Most definitely no happy ending.
I got one on Monday! The massage that is, not the happy ending. I'm a complete wimp when it comes to massage so it was 60mins of fucking agony - barely even massage, more like poking and elbowing and leaning on me with sharp parts of her body. It would be bloody funny to see a time-lapse of my face grimacing through the session!
The son's partner is a massage therapist. Works on the ABs when they are down south. I wont let her go near me. Like you say, it's all elbows and pain.
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@scribe said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo nice work mate but imo yes you need to focus more on the bike. All that running prep won’t count for much if your ring piece is hanging out after a 180km slog.
Maybe use the trainer more during the week? 2 hr sessions doing this at say zone 2 pace is boring AF but it’s also good mental training. Then a short run brick each time. Do a long ride at the weekend.
Being in a good place after the bike leg is the absolute key to success. The run is so attritional both mentally and physically.
Question for you on HR Zones - are you able to actually do anything remotely productive in Z2? If I look at the plan I am loosely following, it looks like this:
Max = 165
Z1 = 60-65% = 105-114bmp
Z2 = 65-75% = 114-131bpm
Z3 = 75-80% = 131-140bpm
Z4 = 80-90% = 140-158bpmIf I look at anything I do, only swimming has me sitting Z2 for any length of time.
This was the week gone, adding HR's for extra data:
- Monday = rest day
- Tuesday = 1hr 20 on the trainer. average HR 141bpm
- Wednesday = Squad swimming - 3km drills, average HR 130bpm
- Thursday = Brick - 50mins on the trainer, average HR 135, then 8.24km run at 5:12/km - average HR 154bpm
- Friday = 2km swim, all FS, no stops - took almost 50mins (god I am slow) and average HR was 130bpm
- Saturday = Brick - 1hr40mins trainer (didn't capture HR) then 5km run at 4:47/km, average HR 161bpm
- Sunday = 8km run at 4:55/km, average HR 155bpm
I reckon I'd enter Z2 doing a slow walk, and I can't stay there in anything except swimming (who knew drowning was such low-stress on your heart?),.
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@voodoo Kipchoge does ~80% of his training in zone two.
I watched this a couple of months ago and have adopted it in my rowing training:
The caveat is it takes some time for the body to adapt. I'm at that unenviable state where I can't run slowly enough to do low heart rate training - it's run at may preferred speed, walk until I recover, run, walk, repeat ad nauseum.
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@antipodean said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo Kipchoge does ~80% of his training in zone two.
I watched this a couple of months ago and have adopted it in my rowing training:
The caveat is it takes some time for the body to adapt. I'm at that unenviable state where I can't run slowly enough to do low heart rate training - it's run at may preferred speed, walk until I recover, run, walk, repeat ad nauseum.
Z2 training by extension requires huge amounts of time that I just don't have
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@voodoo said in Iron-Voodoo:
@antipodean said in Iron-Voodoo:
@voodoo Kipchoge does ~80% of his training in zone two.
I watched this a couple of months ago and have adopted it in my rowing training:
The caveat is it takes some time for the body to adapt. I'm at that unenviable state where I can't run slowly enough to do low heart rate training - it's run at may preferred speed, walk until I recover, run, walk, repeat ad nauseum.
Z2 training by extension requires huge amounts of time that I just don't have
Yes, admittedly from what I've read it requires considerable lead time to adopt.
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@antipodean Also - fuck that 65kg skinny-ass weakling and his "check out my sub-3hr marathon while I'm jabbering away to you guys, you can do it too if you run 27,000kms in the next 10yrs" video.
Bet he can't sink piss for shit.
