Six Nations 2023
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I couldn't find an overall thread to cover this except for the individual match threads. But please combine if there is one
I have almost lost interest in rugby until now. But I thought this article was interesting. And concerning for NZ and Aust rugby. Hopefully SA is never allowed to join. Travel for one would be a pain for the current sides. And why change what works
NZ or Aust winning this years RWC will remove the gloss somewhat
Regarding the 6 nation teams. I've always had a soft spot for Wales so hope they can perform better.now with super coach Gatland back in charge.
A South African's view of the Guinness Six Nations
I’d have bet the farm on the All Blacks, Wallabies and Springboks lifting the Six Nations trophy if given the chance.
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Predictions of final places
France
Ireland
England
Wales
Scotland
Italy -
@Winger The 6N has so many great things going for it.
Chiefly the fan experience which comes down to travel times. The longest travel time in the 6N is less than the shortest was in the RC. The notion of a weekend in Rome wity a rugby game as the centrepiece is phenomenal.
This in turn makes the experience at the ground much better because there is a sizeable travelling and vocal away support.
The grounds are all magnificent
There is a sense of history that professional rugby in the southern hemisphere cannot match.
The competition is much more even
What's not to like. I'd follow it even if the rugby was shite. Which let's face it has often been the case.
Joining the 6N has always made sense for Sth Africa. Easier travel. No long tour. Better time zones. It isn't such a great deal for the existing competitors though. What's in it for them? Even more importantly- what's in it for their constituent clubs? I can't see them wanting more disruption to their club seasons.
It was a very short-term focused article IMO. The NH look to be heading for financial trauma.
The long decline in, and then demise of, the RC has presented all the participants with challenges. But also opportunities.
If they can join the 6N I think it would be a good call for SA but not necessarily to their long term benefit. When the cycle turns and NZ is strong again, not playing us twice a year will have repercussions too.
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If WR/NH unions allow SA to go to the 6 Nations then they really don't give a shit about rugby in a broad sense.
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@Nepia said in Six Nations 2023:
If WR/NH unions allow SA to go to the 6 Nations then they really don't give a shit about rugby in a broad sense.
lol fuck you think they do? oh you poor naïve fool
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@Nepia said in Six Nations 2023:
If WR/NH unions allow SA to go to the 6 Nations then they really don't give a shit about rugby in a broad sense.
Agree with this. They would almost destroy NZ rugby (or speed a decline). Same for Aust Esp considering that's where all the money comes from. Not super rugby
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@dogmeat said in Six Nations 2023:
If they can join the 6N I think it would be a good call for SA but not necessarily to their long term benefit.
Wonder what the financial payout would be for SA from a 6 or 7 nations vs the RC. I would guess more and a lot but maybe not
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It's not Six-Nations season until this old story gets printed... again.
AND... exactly the same responses trotted out... again. -
SA are desperate to join as they have such a huge, relatively wealthy & influential fanbase here & are desperate to get rid of mediocre RC results which they blame on excessive travel.
The consensus seems to be leaning towards having SA clubs in the club tournament has been a bit of a disaster, so I'd say its less likely than ever.
SA would also need to understand that they would go from being the big boy in the room to likely 6th out of 7 in pecking order. Not sure that would work.
Anyway, love the 6N, can't wait. Ireland for me,as I think they are home against France. Which is obviously the biggest match. Will be interesting to see how the new England goes too. Borthwick bounce?
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I think SA joining the NH would be a good idea, although a considerable risk to every other nation. Imagine if they learnt some stodgy forward play, the defining characteristic of NH rugby, to go with their natural tendency to run with the ball. They'd be unbeatable.
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I know it's not 6N as such, but anyone see the U20s games this morning? Saw some of Italy/France and most of Wales/Ireland bloody good. The Wesh team had a bloody good midfield that impressed hell our of me, and keep an eye out for Scarfe their No2, looks to have the goods. Ireland had the better all round team, and certainly were good for the win, and have a good amount of talent coming through, looks like good pathways there.
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@Dan54 The U20 replays are on Sky Sport, tonight. On now (Sky Sport 9), England v Scotland, followed by Italy v France at 9.05pm, and then Wales v Ireland at 11.00pm.
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@Stargazer Yep mate were all on live this morning about 7,30-8. Sorry if I spoiled the viewing assumed everyone would of seen it.
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So who else watched and enjoyed this morning's (NZ time) tests. I surely did very good rugby!
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@Dan54 watched the replays. Both ended up surprisingly as I expected. VDM was on fire.
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@ARHS Yep no real surprises on results, that Irish team is so bloody good, and Scotland I think while not going to win it will push for 3rd place (unless Ireland lose Sexton to injury, then 2nd spot maybe open). That's not saying they one man team by any means, but he certainly sets their game plan.
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Youtube's 'Two Cents Rugby' has a front page headline article and a regular gig with Rugby Planet- good on him -
"Two Cents Rugby picks five of the standout players of the round and it’s a healthy mix of forwards and backs.
The YouTube star is joining us throughout the Championship and kicks off with his Round One selection."
Six Nations: Two Cents Rugby picks his top five players of Round One
With the first week of the Six Nations in the bag, Two Cents Rugby picks five of the best players of the round and it's a healthy mix of forwards and backs.
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An article with detailed eligibility info re: six nations squads -
Foreign-Born / Produced / Trained Players in 2023 Six Nations - Americas Rugby News
The 2023 Six Nations sees changes in player eligibility to that from prior years. World Rugby’s eligibility law changes entitle eligible players to represent a second country following a three-year stand-down period from their last binding representative appearance for their first country. The...
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@Daffy-Jaffy said in Six Nations 2023:
An article with detailed eligibility info re: six nations squads -
The 2023 Six Nations sees changes in player eligibility to that from prior years. World Rugby’s eligibility law changes entitle eligible players to represent a second country following a three-year stand-down period from their last binding representative appearance for their first country. The...
Went straight to Wales
Any list that contains Faletau as foreign is drivel
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They only said foreign born which is correct. The salient point for most of these "born here, play there" guys is where they learned their rugby, where they were brought up in effect. Faletau is as Welsh as anyone on that basis.
Looking at the Wales list you have four blatant poaches in Roberts, Francis, Tompkins and Cuthbert - all born there, played there and then jumped ship.
However, you can keep Cuthbert
Edit: I see Scotland have 20, bloody 20 in that category including 14 that have played representative rugby elsewhere. Sheesh!
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@MiketheSnow said in Six Nations 2023:
@Daffy-Jaffy said in Six Nations 2023:
An article with detailed eligibility info re: six nations squads -
The 2023 Six Nations sees changes in player eligibility to that from prior years. World Rugby’s eligibility law changes entitle eligible players to represent a second country following a three-year stand-down period from their last binding representative appearance for their first country. The...
Went straight to Wales
Any list that contains Faletau as foreign is drivel
It does say both born AND produced then clearly shows what is what.
Without looking closely at every "born and produced in one UK country but playing for another" to ascertain their exact story (it's not like there are hard borders) and therefore removing them and focussing on the born and produced in clearly other countries, then the numbers are more like
Scotland - 8
Ireland- 7
Wales - 1
Italy - 5
England - 1
France -2The only country that has clear signs of a poaching system to target players from other countries is Ireland IMO.
Scotland also draw on "heritage" players, a lot -
Personally I'm not a fan of the grandparent eligibility. It's not enough of a link in my opinion
Scotland - 8
Wales - 3
Ireland - 2
Italy -2
England - 1
France - 0 -
@Duluth said in Six Nations 2023:
Personally I'm not a fan of the grandparent eligibility. It's not enough of a link in my opinion
Scotland - 8
Wales - 3
Ireland - 2
Italy -2
England - 1
France - 0Agree. We jokingly had this conversation with one of the kids the other day that there were options to play for three countries. Apart from knowing that grandparents came from overseas they have zero attachment to that country culturally, financially or physically.
The various national laws around gaining citizenship then muddy the waters even further. -
@Crucial I personally don't really agree with parent rule, I believe where you were born, or where you reside. Only you yourself should influence your eligibility!
With Granparent rule there is a possibilty of eligibilty of 7 countries that you may not have ever been to! My kids nor I ever had the problem if we were good enough anyway as all parents and grandparents were kiwi born and raised, and I think in my case even my parents were in same boat! Kiwi as I,m afraid! -
Does India have a grandfather rule? Maybe it's not too late to play international rugby...
Doubt I'd make the cricket side
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Some of the lads on Mrs Cato’s side of the family have played international rugby for Malta based on the grandparent rule.
Also Mrs Cato has put in for a Maltese passport to enjoy the personal benefits of being a member of the EU.
After voting leave in 2016… 🙄
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The crazy thing about the grandparent eligibility is that in many cases those grandparents themselves emigrated as youngsters.
There is also the way that the rules are pretty much one-way traffic dragging new world players back to 'old' countries.
The craziness that is UK eligibility is a separate thing. Someone born in Berwick upon Tweed or Chester or the Wye Valley for example are virtually two country eligible from the start. Mum only had to pop over the river, over the road or off to a pub to find Dad and bang, there you go. -
Yep and if you’re born on one of the Channel Islands you are eligible for any of the four countries.
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@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2023:
Yep and if you’re born on one of the Channel Islands you are eligible for any of the four countries.
That's because it is unclear who is your parent and who is your grandparent.
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@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2023:
Yep and if you’re born on one of the Channel Islands you are eligible for any of the four countries.
I didn't know that. If your grandmother is born there, does that still count?
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@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2023:
Yep and if you’re born on one of the Channel Islands you are eligible for any of the four countries.
Budge Pountney had a grandparent from the Channel Islands so was eligible for all four nations
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@Duluth said in Six Nations 2023:
Personally I'm not a fan of the grandparent eligibility. It's not enough of a link in my opinion
There must be a fair few PIs eligible based on grandparent rule at the moment and it will only increase in the next decade. We're going to get to the situation in the future where a number of PI rep players kids aren't eligible for that PI.
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@Duluth said in Six Nations 2023:
@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2023:
Yep and if you’re born on one of the Channel Islands you are eligible for any of the four countries.
Budge Pountney had a grandparent from the Channel Islands so was eligible for all four nations
Sweet, me too - I reckon I could get on that Tier 2 team in white
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@Duluth said in Six Nations 2023:
Personally I'm not a fan of the grandparent eligibility. It's not enough of a link in my opinion
Scotland - 8
Wales - 3
Ireland - 2
Italy -2
England - 1
France - 0The grandparent rule can be looked at in two different ways.
My father came to NZ from Northern Ireland as a mature man a few years after WWII ended. Eventually his children came along over a number of years and then his grandchildren. All his grandchildren had huge amounts of contact and involvement with him and were all aware of his heritage, his Irish eccentricities, and most have had contact with family "back home". The quirks of the citizenship laws in Ireland automatically make all the grandchildren citizens of the Republic of Ireland (subject to their births being registered there) and most of them travel on a Republic of Ireland Passport (British Passports being unavailable to them). Most of the grandchildren have spent time living and working in the UK. What I am trying to convey is that the grandchildren still have strong ties to their grandfather's homeland and do not use that twist of fate as an "easy way" around things.
It turns out one of my nephews is currently a part of one of the four Irish United Championship squads and is classified as a local (he is an Irish citizen after all!) and in the unlikely event he ever managed to make the Ireland team would probably be labelled as an "import" (born in NZ to a NZ father/Aussie mother and learnt his rugby in Aus). The "grandparent rule" be dammed, he is about an Irish as a kiwi can get!
The other way I refer to was the case of Thomas the Tank Waldron who had to check with his mother whether his grandparent was English before making himself available for England. If he was committed to England you would have thought he would have known that without any hesitation. -
@Higgins said in Six Nations 2023:
The "grandparent rule" be dammed, he is about an Irish as a kiwi can get!
You undermine your own argument. Although automatic citizenship certainly strengthens the Irish case.
By comparison UK citizenship is not automatic if you have a grandparent who was a UK citizen, so to my mind you should not be able to qualify for England, Wales or Scotland through the grandparent ruling.
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@dogmeat His paternal grandmother is at least 75% English but the citizenship determining part was her mother and in those days mothers were unable to pass on citizenship, despite their being no doubt of said child's English parentage (unlike many cases involving potential English fathers!). The irony of it is that her children (unlike her) are British Citizens by birthright/decent through our Irish father!!! However being born outside the UK means we can only pass on Brititsh citizenship if our children were born in the UK, none were hence the use of the Republic of Ireland citizenship and passport by the grandchildren, comes in very handy for the rugby player.
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@Higgins For a rugby player who wants to play test rugby, having a certain passport or citizenship is irrelevant. That's the whole point of the eligibility rules. It only matters for Olympic Sevens, because the Olympic Charter requires an athlete to have the citizenship of the country (s)he represents. Eligibility depends on own birthplace, (grand)parent's birthplace or residency.
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My predictions for final positions after round 1:
- Ireland
- France
- England
- Scotland
- Italy
- Wales
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@Stargazer said in Six Nations 2023:
@Higgins For a rugby player who wants to play test rugby, having a certain passport or citizenship is irrelevant. That's the whole point of the eligibility rules. It only matters for Olympic Sevens, because the Olympic Charter requires an athlete to have the citizenship of the country (s)he represents. Eligibility depends on own birthplace, (grand)parent's birthplace or residency.
Not necessarily, as being a foreign born Citizen may circumvent any residency requirements and if they are good enough (and not tied to any standdown thanks to having represented another country) they could be straight into Test rugby. Think Michael Bent might be an example of this?
