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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
On the one hand May has to go because she's tried to make us take a shit deal".
On the other hand "Once she's gone we'll take that shit deal with open arms".
Nonsensical.The Withdrawal Agreement is only one part. I think it's the next step (the future relationship with the EU) which they are concerned about.
They are worried that the future relationship will be Brexit in name only - free movement, bound by EU laws, trade policy decided by Brussels under a Customs Union.
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
Probably fair, however the timing of all this unfolding is purely down to May, so I'm in no position to be charitable. If this process was where it is right now 6-12 months ago, then thats fine. But not now.
In a nutshell.
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
s.Whilst I'm no fan of May and her handling of this issue (and the fucking election) I do think that calling this May's deal is not really the point. This is the EU's deal. She doesn't get to choose what goes in to the deal and what stays out, they do. Some would say that's a good illustration of what is wrong with the EU but in this instance I think it is just negotiating from a strong position. Their strong position is a direct result of our weak position and that is not down to May in the main.
Probably fair, however the timing of all this unfolding is purely down to May, so I'm in no position to be charitable. If this process was where it is right now 6-12 months ago, then thats fine. But not now.
I’m not so sure that it’s purely down to May, sure she’s handled things badly but she has never had a united cabinet behind her, with many flip/flopping around. Not giving her a get out of jail free card but she’s the only one to really stick their head above the parapet and she she looks round for support she sees fuck all.
If it's not her deal, and it's the EU's deal, then she shouldn't even be presenting it. This deal has been out there a while, and I'd still say it was late.
With Corbyn insisting publicly that no deal be taken off the table and the DUP wanting nothing to do with a no deal, she had fuck all cards to play. Add to that a bunch of fluffybunnies as her “allies”, I’d say she was pretty much hamstrung.It's quite different even 6 months out saying, the EU are pushing this parliament into a no-deal Brexit due to this deal and therefore I must conclude we prepare for that. The EU have shown quite clearly they are dead against no-deal Brexit and hence will have softened.
I agree with this point but the (her?) inability to garner any meaningful support, leaves her a long way up shit creek sans paddle. She’s not done well (understatement alert) but when we’re lining up all the duplicitous and useless fluffybunnies up against the wall to be shot, well we’ll need a bloody long wall.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
On the one hand May has to go because she's tried to make us take a shit deal".
On the other hand "Once she's gone we'll take that shit deal with open arms".
Nonsensical.The Withdrawal Agreement is only one part. I think it's the next step (the future relationship with the EU) which they are concerned about.
They are worried that the future relationship will be Brexit in name only - free movement, bound by EU laws, trade policy decided by Brussels under a Customs Union.
But that is not May, that is all down to the deal. I can understand people not wanting the deal and I can understand people not wanting May because she’s offering a shit deal. But saying I’m happy to eat the shit sandwich as long as she’s not watching is sod all to do with trying to do a good job for the country.
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
They don't trust May to do a "proper" deal in the next stage of the process. Bit irrelevant really as it's bloody obvious she'll be gone soon.
trying to do a good job for the country.
Fat chance of that from the fundamentalist MPs on either side of the debate
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
They don't trust May to do a "proper" deal in the next stage of the process. Bit irrelevant really as it's bloody obvious she'll be gone soon.
trying to do a good job for the country.
Fat chance of that from the fundamentalist MPs on either side of the debate
Aaah. We have common ground.
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The thing which gets me is that there's a big prize to be won. A close relationship and FTA with the EU and the ability to be smart and forge deals with the rest of the world - increasingly important as the EU's influence wanes globally.
But no, thinking strategically and sensibly is way too much for our professional politicians
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Brexit:
The thing which gets me is that there's a big prize to be won. A close relationship and FTA with the EU and the ability to be smart and forge deals with the rest of the world - increasingly important as the EU's influence wanes globally.
But no, thinking strategically and sensibly is way too much for our professional politicians
And the ability to avoid destructive immigration policy.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Brexit:
And the ability to avoid destructive immigration policy.
That is really key, I think.. Whatever deal goes thru, it has to address this head on.
That’s actually all it has to do, really.
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So now the MPs have voted to take control of the parliamentary timetable to try and find a majority to decide a Brexit strategy. So the lunatics actually have taken over the asylum. This is going to be interesting though, will they realise that it's just not that easy and go with May's deal, will they go cap in hand to the EU to ask for more time or will we be out of the EU in April with no deal?
Whatever the outcome, this is a major blow for May and I feel that if there was a credible alternative that was putting their hand up, she'd be toast already. Odd that no-one is putting their hand up - realisation of just how deep this load of shit really is perhaps?
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
s.Whilst I'm no fan of May and her handling of this issue (and the fucking election) I do think that calling this May's deal is not really the point. This is the EU's deal. She doesn't get to choose what goes in to the deal and what stays out, they do. Some would say that's a good illustration of what is wrong with the EU but in this instance I think it is just negotiating from a strong position. Their strong position is a direct result of our weak position and that is not down to May in the main.
Probably fair, however the timing of all this unfolding is purely down to May, so I'm in no position to be charitable. If this process was where it is right now 6-12 months ago, then thats fine. But not now.
I’m not so sure that it’s purely down to May, sure she’s handled things badly but she has never had a united cabinet behind her, with many flip/flopping around. Not giving her a get out of jail free card but she’s the only one to really stick their head above the parapet and she she looks round for support she sees fuck all.
Of course it's not purely down to May. Johnson, Rees-Mogg and crew should take blame as well for creating such a split down the party. Maybe May felt her only option was to just do what she wanted and that's that.
However, she put her hand up for the job, talked the talk and we are where we are.
If it's not her deal, and it's the EU's deal, then she shouldn't even be presenting it. This deal has been out there a while, and I'd still say it was late.
With Corbyn insisting publicly that no deal be taken off the table and the DUP wanting nothing to do with a no deal, she had fuck all cards to play. Add to that a bunch of fluffybunnies as her “allies”, I’d say she was pretty much hamstrung.It's quite different even 6 months out saying, the EU are pushing this parliament into a no-deal Brexit due to this deal and therefore I must conclude we prepare for that. The EU have shown quite clearly they are dead against no-deal Brexit and hence will have softened.
I agree with this point but the (her?) inability to garner any meaningful support, leaves her a long way up shit creek sans paddle. She’s not done well (understatement alert) but when we’re lining up all the duplicitous and useless fluffybunnies up against the wall to be shot, well we’ll need a bloody long wall.
I think there is one being built just north of Mexico which may work?
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@MajorRage I think we're in a agreement, just that when it comes down to apportioning blame we are, (according to Eddie Jones), 2.666% out of correlation.
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
s.Whilst I'm no fan of May and her handling of this issue (and the fucking election) I do think that calling this May's deal is not really the point. This is the EU's deal. She doesn't get to choose what goes in to the deal and what stays out, they do. Some would say that's a good illustration of what is wrong with the EU but in this instance I think it is just negotiating from a strong position. Their strong position is a direct result of our weak position and that is not down to May in the main.
Probably fair, however the timing of all this unfolding is purely down to May, so I'm in no position to be charitable. If this process was where it is right now 6-12 months ago, then thats fine. But not now.
I’m not so sure that it’s purely down to May, sure she’s handled things badly but she has never had a united cabinet behind her, with many flip/flopping around. Not giving her a get out of jail free card but she’s the only one to really stick their head above the parapet and she she looks round for support she sees fuck all.
Of course it's not purely down to May. Johnson, Rees-Mogg and crew should take blame as well for creating such a split down the party. Maybe May felt her only option was to just do what she wanted and that's that.
However, she put her hand up for the job, talked the talk and we are where we are.
If it's not her deal, and it's the EU's deal, then she shouldn't even be presenting it. This deal has been out there a while, and I'd still say it was late.
With Corbyn insisting publicly that no deal be taken off the table and the DUP wanting nothing to do with a no deal, she had fuck all cards to play. Add to that a bunch of fluffybunnies as her “allies”, I’d say she was pretty much hamstrung.It's quite different even 6 months out saying, the EU are pushing this parliament into a no-deal Brexit due to this deal and therefore I must conclude we prepare for that. The EU have shown quite clearly they are dead against no-deal Brexit and hence will have softened.
I agree with this point but the (her?) inability to garner any meaningful support, leaves her a long way up shit creek sans paddle. She’s not done well (understatement alert) but when we’re lining up all the duplicitous and useless fluffybunnies up against the wall to be shot, well we’ll need a bloody long wall.
I think there is one being built just north of Mexico which may work?
So you just apportion blame to May and Brexiters?
I am shocked.... -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
s.Whilst I'm no fan of May and her handling of this issue (and the fucking election) I do think that calling this May's deal is not really the point. This is the EU's deal. She doesn't get to choose what goes in to the deal and what stays out, they do. Some would say that's a good illustration of what is wrong with the EU but in this instance I think it is just negotiating from a strong position. Their strong position is a direct result of our weak position and that is not down to May in the main.
Probably fair, however the timing of all this unfolding is purely down to May, so I'm in no position to be charitable. If this process was where it is right now 6-12 months ago, then thats fine. But not now.
I’m not so sure that it’s purely down to May, sure she’s handled things badly but she has never had a united cabinet behind her, with many flip/flopping around. Not giving her a get out of jail free card but she’s the only one to really stick their head above the parapet and she she looks round for support she sees fuck all.
Of course it's not purely down to May. Johnson, Rees-Mogg and crew should take blame as well for creating such a split down the party. Maybe May felt her only option was to just do what she wanted and that's that.
However, she put her hand up for the job, talked the talk and we are where we are.
If it's not her deal, and it's the EU's deal, then she shouldn't even be presenting it. This deal has been out there a while, and I'd still say it was late.
With Corbyn insisting publicly that no deal be taken off the table and the DUP wanting nothing to do with a no deal, she had fuck all cards to play. Add to that a bunch of fluffybunnies as her “allies”, I’d say she was pretty much hamstrung.It's quite different even 6 months out saying, the EU are pushing this parliament into a no-deal Brexit due to this deal and therefore I must conclude we prepare for that. The EU have shown quite clearly they are dead against no-deal Brexit and hence will have softened.
I agree with this point but the (her?) inability to garner any meaningful support, leaves her a long way up shit creek sans paddle. She’s not done well (understatement alert) but when we’re lining up all the duplicitous and useless fluffybunnies up against the wall to be shot, well we’ll need a bloody long wall.
I think there is one being built just north of Mexico which may work?
So you just apportion blame to May and Brexiters?
I am shocked....No. Not even close to what I said.
-
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
s.Whilst I'm no fan of May and her handling of this issue (and the fucking election) I do think that calling this May's deal is not really the point. This is the EU's deal. She doesn't get to choose what goes in to the deal and what stays out, they do. Some would say that's a good illustration of what is wrong with the EU but in this instance I think it is just negotiating from a strong position. Their strong position is a direct result of our weak position and that is not down to May in the main.
Probably fair, however the timing of all this unfolding is purely down to May, so I'm in no position to be charitable. If this process was where it is right now 6-12 months ago, then thats fine. But not now.
I’m not so sure that it’s purely down to May, sure she’s handled things badly but she has never had a united cabinet behind her, with many flip/flopping around. Not giving her a get out of jail free card but she’s the only one to really stick their head above the parapet and she she looks round for support she sees fuck all.
Of course it's not purely down to May. Johnson, Rees-Mogg and crew should take blame as well for creating such a split down the party. Maybe May felt her only option was to just do what she wanted and that's that.
However, she put her hand up for the job, talked the talk and we are where we are.
If it's not her deal, and it's the EU's deal, then she shouldn't even be presenting it. This deal has been out there a while, and I'd still say it was late.
With Corbyn insisting publicly that no deal be taken off the table and the DUP wanting nothing to do with a no deal, she had fuck all cards to play. Add to that a bunch of fluffybunnies as her “allies”, I’d say she was pretty much hamstrung.It's quite different even 6 months out saying, the EU are pushing this parliament into a no-deal Brexit due to this deal and therefore I must conclude we prepare for that. The EU have shown quite clearly they are dead against no-deal Brexit and hence will have softened.
I agree with this point but the (her?) inability to garner any meaningful support, leaves her a long way up shit creek sans paddle. She’s not done well (understatement alert) but when we’re lining up all the duplicitous and useless fluffybunnies up against the wall to be shot, well we’ll need a bloody long wall.
I think there is one being built just north of Mexico which may work?
So you just apportion blame to May and Brexiters?
I am shocked....No. Not even close to what I said.
Did you name and blame the Remainers?
-
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
s.Whilst I'm no fan of May and her handling of this issue (and the fucking election) I do think that calling this May's deal is not really the point. This is the EU's deal. She doesn't get to choose what goes in to the deal and what stays out, they do. Some would say that's a good illustration of what is wrong with the EU but in this instance I think it is just negotiating from a strong position. Their strong position is a direct result of our weak position and that is not down to May in the main.
Probably fair, however the timing of all this unfolding is purely down to May, so I'm in no position to be charitable. If this process was where it is right now 6-12 months ago, then thats fine. But not now.
I’m not so sure that it’s purely down to May, sure she’s handled things badly but she has never had a united cabinet behind her, with many flip/flopping around. Not giving her a get out of jail free card but she’s the only one to really stick their head above the parapet and she she looks round for support she sees fuck all.
Of course it's not purely down to May. Johnson, Rees-Mogg and crew should take blame as well for creating such a split down the party. Maybe May felt her only option was to just do what she wanted and that's that.
However, she put her hand up for the job, talked the talk and we are where we are.
If it's not her deal, and it's the EU's deal, then she shouldn't even be presenting it. This deal has been out there a while, and I'd still say it was late.
With Corbyn insisting publicly that no deal be taken off the table and the DUP wanting nothing to do with a no deal, she had fuck all cards to play. Add to that a bunch of fluffybunnies as her “allies”, I’d say she was pretty much hamstrung.It's quite different even 6 months out saying, the EU are pushing this parliament into a no-deal Brexit due to this deal and therefore I must conclude we prepare for that. The EU have shown quite clearly they are dead against no-deal Brexit and hence will have softened.
I agree with this point but the (her?) inability to garner any meaningful support, leaves her a long way up shit creek sans paddle. She’s not done well (understatement alert) but when we’re lining up all the duplicitous and useless fluffybunnies up against the wall to be shot, well we’ll need a bloody long wall.
I think there is one being built just north of Mexico which may work?
So you just apportion blame to May and Brexiters?
I am shocked....No. Not even close to what I said.
Did you name and blame the Remainers?
At no point did I blame anybody on their remain / leave views.
-
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
s.Whilst I'm no fan of May and her handling of this issue (and the fucking election) I do think that calling this May's deal is not really the point. This is the EU's deal. She doesn't get to choose what goes in to the deal and what stays out, they do. Some would say that's a good illustration of what is wrong with the EU but in this instance I think it is just negotiating from a strong position. Their strong position is a direct result of our weak position and that is not down to May in the main.
Probably fair, however the timing of all this unfolding is purely down to May, so I'm in no position to be charitable. If this process was where it is right now 6-12 months ago, then thats fine. But not now.
I’m not so sure that it’s purely down to May, sure she’s handled things badly but she has never had a united cabinet behind her, with many flip/flopping around. Not giving her a get out of jail free card but she’s the only one to really stick their head above the parapet and she she looks round for support she sees fuck all.
Of course it's not purely down to May. Johnson, Rees-Mogg and crew should take blame as well for creating such a split down the party. Maybe May felt her only option was to just do what she wanted and that's that.
However, she put her hand up for the job, talked the talk and we are where we are.
If it's not her deal, and it's the EU's deal, then she shouldn't even be presenting it. This deal has been out there a while, and I'd still say it was late.
With Corbyn insisting publicly that no deal be taken off the table and the DUP wanting nothing to do with a no deal, she had fuck all cards to play. Add to that a bunch of fluffybunnies as her “allies”, I’d say she was pretty much hamstrung.It's quite different even 6 months out saying, the EU are pushing this parliament into a no-deal Brexit due to this deal and therefore I must conclude we prepare for that. The EU have shown quite clearly they are dead against no-deal Brexit and hence will have softened.
I agree with this point but the (her?) inability to garner any meaningful support, leaves her a long way up shit creek sans paddle. She’s not done well (understatement alert) but when we’re lining up all the duplicitous and useless fluffybunnies up against the wall to be shot, well we’ll need a bloody long wall.
I think there is one being built just north of Mexico which may work?
So you just apportion blame to May and Brexiters?
I am shocked....No. Not even close to what I said.
Did you name and blame the Remainers?
At no point did I blame anybody on their remain / leave views.
You specifically listed Mogg and Johnson....
and zero remainers. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
s.Whilst I'm no fan of May and her handling of this issue (and the fucking election) I do think that calling this May's deal is not really the point. This is the EU's deal. She doesn't get to choose what goes in to the deal and what stays out, they do. Some would say that's a good illustration of what is wrong with the EU but in this instance I think it is just negotiating from a strong position. Their strong position is a direct result of our weak position and that is not down to May in the main.
Probably fair, however the timing of all this unfolding is purely down to May, so I'm in no position to be charitable. If this process was where it is right now 6-12 months ago, then thats fine. But not now.
I’m not so sure that it’s purely down to May, sure she’s handled things badly but she has never had a united cabinet behind her, with many flip/flopping around. Not giving her a get out of jail free card but she’s the only one to really stick their head above the parapet and she she looks round for support she sees fuck all.
Of course it's not purely down to May. Johnson, Rees-Mogg and crew should take blame as well for creating such a split down the party. Maybe May felt her only option was to just do what she wanted and that's that.
However, she put her hand up for the job, talked the talk and we are where we are.
If it's not her deal, and it's the EU's deal, then she shouldn't even be presenting it. This deal has been out there a while, and I'd still say it was late.
With Corbyn insisting publicly that no deal be taken off the table and the DUP wanting nothing to do with a no deal, she had fuck all cards to play. Add to that a bunch of fluffybunnies as her “allies”, I’d say she was pretty much hamstrung.It's quite different even 6 months out saying, the EU are pushing this parliament into a no-deal Brexit due to this deal and therefore I must conclude we prepare for that. The EU have shown quite clearly they are dead against no-deal Brexit and hence will have softened.
I agree with this point but the (her?) inability to garner any meaningful support, leaves her a long way up shit creek sans paddle. She’s not done well (understatement alert) but when we’re lining up all the duplicitous and useless fluffybunnies up against the wall to be shot, well we’ll need a bloody long wall.
I think there is one being built just north of Mexico which may work?
So you just apportion blame to May and Brexiters?
I am shocked....No. Not even close to what I said.
Did you name and blame the Remainers?
At no point did I blame anybody on their remain / leave views.
You specifically listed Mogg and Johnson....
and zero remainers.May is a leaver? Wow.
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
@MajorRage said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
s.Whilst I'm no fan of May and her handling of this issue (and the fucking election) I do think that calling this May's deal is not really the point. This is the EU's deal. She doesn't get to choose what goes in to the deal and what stays out, they do. Some would say that's a good illustration of what is wrong with the EU but in this instance I think it is just negotiating from a strong position. Their strong position is a direct result of our weak position and that is not down to May in the main.
Probably fair, however the timing of all this unfolding is purely down to May, so I'm in no position to be charitable. If this process was where it is right now 6-12 months ago, then thats fine. But not now.
I’m not so sure that it’s purely down to May, sure she’s handled things badly but she has never had a united cabinet behind her, with many flip/flopping around. Not giving her a get out of jail free card but she’s the only one to really stick their head above the parapet and she she looks round for support she sees fuck all.
Of course it's not purely down to May. Johnson, Rees-Mogg and crew should take blame as well for creating such a split down the party. Maybe May felt her only option was to just do what she wanted and that's that.
However, she put her hand up for the job, talked the talk and we are where we are.
If it's not her deal, and it's the EU's deal, then she shouldn't even be presenting it. This deal has been out there a while, and I'd still say it was late.
With Corbyn insisting publicly that no deal be taken off the table and the DUP wanting nothing to do with a no deal, she had fuck all cards to play. Add to that a bunch of fluffybunnies as her “allies”, I’d say she was pretty much hamstrung.It's quite different even 6 months out saying, the EU are pushing this parliament into a no-deal Brexit due to this deal and therefore I must conclude we prepare for that. The EU have shown quite clearly they are dead against no-deal Brexit and hence will have softened.
I agree with this point but the (her?) inability to garner any meaningful support, leaves her a long way up shit creek sans paddle. She’s not done well (understatement alert) but when we’re lining up all the duplicitous and useless fluffybunnies up against the wall to be shot, well we’ll need a bloody long wall.
I think there is one being built just north of Mexico which may work?
So you just apportion blame to May and Brexiters?
I am shocked....No. Not even close to what I said.
Did you name and blame the Remainers?
At no point did I blame anybody on their remain / leave views.
You specifically listed Mogg and Johnson....
and zero remainers.May is a leaver? Wow.
Really.... thats the remainer you come up with?
Not all the hard core ones demanding.a second referendum or revoking article 50?You have proved my point
Brexit