NZ Politics



  • @Godder said in NZ Politics:

    Doesn't look like Labour have any great ambitions to massive structural changes, so I don't think there will be much radical change coming.

    Of course you say that to encourage voting Labour



  • @booboo said in NZ Politics:

    @Godder said in NZ Politics:

    Doesn't look like Labour have any great ambitions to massive structural changes, so I don't think there will be much radical change coming.

    Of course you say that to encourage voting Labour

    in fairness to @godder, he's absolutely right. Modern politicians have big ambitions, but timid implementations. It's really hard to pick them apart on policy, and has been since MMP kicked off. If you don't live and breathe in the centre, you won't be in power. It's really simple.

    Hell - even the Greens signed up for the Budget Responsiblity Rules before the last election. They are really disappointing - as I've said before (and it'll never happen) the gains they could have got by negotiating iwth National (or even threatening it) would have been immense.



  • @reprobate said in NZ Politics:

    @Kirwan said in NZ Politics:

    @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    Is anyone else totally bemused by the National Party strategy - assuming there is one?

    It seems to be fatally flawed to me. Trying to make Collins all cutesy and user friendly. Never going to win that battle. Might as well channel the inner pit bull and go all out.

    If it was me I'd be campaigning along the lines of Vote Labour if you want moonbeams and unicorns but not if you want stuff done. Kiwibuild, Light Rail, Child Poverty, Pay Inequality, Secure Borders? Kiwibuild, Light Rail, Child Poverty, Pay Inequality, Secure Borders
    Put the snarl up against the Smile. Probably doomed to fail but at least you'd be trying. All National seem to be trying to achieve is something better than 2002

    My Facebook is full of National announcements on policy and trying to set a vision. Good long term planning type stuff. Not sure where you are seeing the cutesy stuff, but I guess on TV?

    To me it looks like they are positioning themselves as the party that can things done, and Labour as the party of broken promises (they are stacking up now) and people out of their depth.

    Will it be enough change the media narrative, particularly about Taxinda? Probably not, but at least there are ideas being talked about instead of babies and the gender of a leader.

    Obviously you're a righty, but why Taxinda? What tax increases have there been?

    ACT have a handy summary;

    https://www.act.org.nz/cost-of-labour

    According to them, eight new or increases to taxes from Labour, amounting to the average household paying $2,279 more in tax per year. Doesn't include the increase to the top rate recently announced either.

    Just looking at the regional fuel tax, and the impact in Auckland. Before Labour introduced that tax I never knew the cost of petrol, or saw queues in petrol stations. Now when the local Gull has their Thursday deal the queue stretches along the street.

    A tax that hits poor people the hardest, just getting to work.

    Taxinda is a well earned nickname.

    As for being a righty. I'm pro gay marriage (including allowing adoption), have no problems with legalised prostitution, legalised dope, and plenty of other "lefty" positions.

    I just believe that politicians should have as little impact on the economy as possible, especially as NZ is in a short three year election lolly scramble cycle.



  • @Kirwan ACT are correct of course but it's almost fake news in that it ignores the fact that every government increases taxes like this.

    National introduced the brightline tax, increased tobacco, fuel and alcohol every year, raised GST 2.5%, introduced a tax on employer KiwiSaver contributions and halved the annual member tax credit, cutting up to $512 a year off savers, introduced a border levy, a tax on digital purchases and raised fees for prescriptions, family courts etc

    so how come it wasn't bills-us-english or keyp-our-money?



  • @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    @Kirwan ACT are correct of course but it's almost fake news in that it ignores the fact that every government increases taxes like this.

    National introduced the brightline tax, increased tobacco, fuel and alcohol every year, raised GST 2.5%, introduced a tax on employer KiwiSaver contributions and halved the annual member tax credit, cutting up to $512 a year off savers, introduced a border levy, a tax on digital purchases and raised fees for prescriptions, family courts etc

    so how come it wasn't bills-us-english or keyp-our-money?

    So Taxinda has raised taxes? Which was the question being asked.

    Tried desperately for a captial gains tax and now is raising the top end rate for income tax. National do that?



  • @Kirwan It wasn't me that queried the Taxinda name - I have no issues with it. I was merely pointing out that every party raises taxes by stealth. Labour this term has been no better or worse than their predecessors.

    It's actually a problem for National as one of their traditional major focuses of attack has been removed. Taxinda has said she will never revisit CGT and the 39% tax rate isn't going to lose them many, if any, voters.

    What National should concentrate on is why the govt spent all that time and money on a tax working group and then did nothing. Remind some on the left that Labour isn't delivering.



  • @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    @Kirwan It wasn't me that queried the Taxinda name - I have no issues with it. I was merely pointing out that every party raises taxes by stealth. Labour this term has been no better or worse than their predecessors.

    It's actually a problem for National as one of their traditional major focuses of attack has been removed. Taxinda has said she will never revisit CGT and the 39% tax rate isn't going to lose them many, if any, voters.

    What National should concentrate on is why the govt spent all that time and money on a tax working group and then did nothing. Remind some on the left that Labour isn't delivering.

    And as I mentioned earlier, that's what many of their social media posts are doing. Some of them are quite funny.

    I was replying to an earlier poster that queried the name, the implication that it was unfair. Clearly they have raised and introduced (and tried for more) enough taxes for that name to stick.

    The regional fuel tax in particular is a painful tax. She then had the balls to blame the fuel companies when 40% of the price of fuel is now tax.



  • Regional Fuel tax is a strange example to moan about.
    It is your council that asked for the provision to be put in place then your council that asked to use it.



  • Yeah I have no issue with the Regional Fuel tax if it delivers much needed infrastructure. I can see why the likes of @Snowy out in the boonies might feel he gets no benefit from it but that's the nature of any taxation. My tax contributes to lots of things that don't benefit me directly.

    I have to admit I don't even know what petrol costs as I haven't had to pay for any for decades but the commerce commission decided the fuel companies were ripping the public off didn't they so tax take irrespective they were a deserving target.

    I have done some quick research. National increased fuel tax by 20 cents, introduced a 9 cent/litre carbon tax and increased GST by 2.5% Labour have increased fuel tax by 10.5 cents and introduced Regional Fuel tax.

    Not sure which govt first committed to actually spending the tax on transport



  • @Crucial said in NZ Politics:

    Regional Fuel tax is a strange example to moan about.
    It is your council that asked for the provision to be put in place then your council that asked to use it.

    Oh, you make a distinction between the Phil Goff lead council and Labour? Cute.

    It's 100% a Labour led tax.



  • @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    Yeah I have no issue with the Regional Fuel tax if it delivers much needed infrastructure. I can see why the likes of @Snowy out in the boonies might feel he gets no benefit from it but that's the nature of any taxation. My tax contributes to lots of things that don't benefit me directly.

    I have to admit I don't even know what petrol costs as I haven't had to pay for any for decades but the commerce commission decided the fuel companies were ripping the public off didn't they so tax take irrespective they were a deserving target.

    I have done some quick research. National increased fuel tax by 20 cents, introduced a 9 cent/litre carbon tax and increased GST by 2.5% Labour have increased fuel tax by 10.5 cents and introduced Regional Fuel tax.

    Not sure which govt first committed to actually spending the tax on transport

    One of the main justifications of the tax increase was the light rail white elephant policy from Labour, now "on hold". So again, they aren't keeping their promises.



  • @Kirwan Akl Council wanted it to support CRL

    The light rail timeframe they promised was never going to be achieved but it's now on hold because of muppet Twyford getting seduced by the Super Fund light metro proposal which really would be a nonsensical white elephant.

    Much as I want light rail on the isthmus and even more urgently out to Westgate I'm glad NZF scuppered Twyfords folly even if they did it for all the wrong reasons



  • @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    I can see why the likes of @Snowy out in the boonies might feel he gets no benefit from it but that's the nature of any taxation. My tax contributes to lots of things that don't benefit me directly.

    All of mine does go somewhere else, which is my issue. Fuel tax? For AKL? WTF. I live so far away and try not to go there but still cop it. I could drive 60km north and save some cash but that is defeating the purpose. I would rather the tax money went somewhere and could see some results, which we don't.

    Rates are tax. I get nothing. Why are they they same everywhere? The supercity is a serious rort.



  • @Snowy said in NZ Politics:

    @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    I can see why the likes of @Snowy out in the boonies might feel he gets no benefit from it but that's the nature of any taxation. My tax contributes to lots of things that don't benefit me directly.

    All of mine does go somewhere else, which is my issue. Fuel tax? For AKL? WTF. I live so far away and try not to go there but still cop it. I could drive 60km north and save some cash but that is defeating the purpose. I would rather the tax money went somewhere and could see some results, which we don't.

    Rates are tax. I get nothing. Why are they they same everywhere? The supercity is a serious rort.

    Blame ACT for that one, that was a Rodney Hide special.

    Despite the complaints, we tax fuel less than most of the OECD apparently (https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/owning-a-car/fuel-prices-and-types/how-petrol-prices-are-calculated/)

    Hypothecation of fuel taxes was introduced by Dr Cullen (Labour) from July 2008.

    I know people like to complain, but we are a low tax country by OECD measures. A few tweaks and small increases here and there doesn't change that. Even if we introduced the Green tax and welfare policies, we would still be in the bottom half of the OECD for tax.



  • @Godder said in NZ Politics:

    @Snowy said in NZ Politics:

    @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    I can see why the likes of @Snowy out in the boonies might feel he gets no benefit from it but that's the nature of any taxation. My tax contributes to lots of things that don't benefit me directly.

    All of mine does go somewhere else, which is my issue. Fuel tax? For AKL? WTF. I live so far away and try not to go there but still cop it. I could drive 60km north and save some cash but that is defeating the purpose. I would rather the tax money went somewhere and could see some results, which we don't.

    Rates are tax. I get nothing. Why are they they same everywhere? The supercity is a serious rort.

    Blame ACT for that one, that was a Rodney Hide special.

    Despite the complaints, we tax fuel less than most of the OECD apparently (https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/owning-a-car/fuel-prices-and-types/how-petrol-prices-are-calculated/)

    Hypothecation of fuel taxes was introduced by Dr Cullen (Labour) from July 2008.

    I know people like to complain, but we are a low tax country by OECD measures. A few tweaks and small increases here and there doesn't change that. Even if we introduced the Green tax and welfare policies, we would still be in the bottom half of the OECD for tax.

    Yep, everyone upset about NZ tax hikes should try living in the UK. Scandinavian-style tax with the state providing comparatively stuff all..



  • @nzzp said in NZ Politics:

    In the UK they had stamp duty on house sales - kind of a CGT in another name. Low rated, but applied to every property transaction.Just looked it up (https://www.gov.uk/stamp-duty-land-tax/residential-property-rates#:~:text=You usually pay Stamp Duty,when you bought the property) - free up to GBP500k, then 5-12% above that!

    Just catching up on this thread, so forgive me if addressed, but you triggered me. They changed Stamp duty recently as part of covid I think. We got absolutely reamed selling sub 300k last year.



  • @Godder said in NZ Politics:

    @Snowy said in NZ Politics:

    @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    I can see why the likes of @Snowy out in the boonies might feel he gets no benefit from it but that's the nature of any taxation. My tax contributes to lots of things that don't benefit me directly.

    All of mine does go somewhere else, which is my issue. Fuel tax? For AKL? WTF. I live so far away and try not to go there but still cop it. I could drive 60km north and save some cash but that is defeating the purpose. I would rather the tax money went somewhere and could see some results, which we don't.

    Rates are tax. I get nothing. Why are they they same everywhere? The supercity is a serious rort.

    Blame ACT for that one, that was a Rodney Hide special.

    you can - and the Super hasn't been awesome, but the previous configuration wasn't working either. Trying to get region wide agreement on work was damn near impossible - and then (and this goes back to Robbie's light rail) councils (well, politicians) seemed to oppose initiatives, not because they would lose out, but because someone else would gain more. It was dysfunctional and toxic.

    No obvious fixes, and a lot of that has got a heap better. But yeah, 'super city' eh. Needs a Tui billboard.



  • @Bones said in NZ Politics:

    @nzzp said in NZ Politics:

    In the UK they had stamp duty on house sales - kind of a CGT in another name. Low rated, but applied to every property transaction.Just looked it up (https://www.gov.uk/stamp-duty-land-tax/residential-property-rates#:~:text=You usually pay Stamp Duty,when you bought the property) - free up to GBP500k, then 5-12% above that!

    Just catching up on this thread, so forgive me if addressed, but you triggered me. They changed Stamp duty recently as part of covid I think. We got absolutely reamed selling sub 300k last year.

    211bfd80-9608-4790-b873-7e2864d05490-image.png



  • @nzzp I love Ice Cube though.



  • @TeWaio said in NZ Politics:

    @Godder said in NZ Politics:

    @Snowy said in NZ Politics:

    @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    I can see why the likes of @Snowy out in the boonies might feel he gets no benefit from it but that's the nature of any taxation. My tax contributes to lots of things that don't benefit me directly.

    All of mine does go somewhere else, which is my issue. Fuel tax? For AKL? WTF. I live so far away and try not to go there but still cop it. I could drive 60km north and save some cash but that is defeating the purpose. I would rather the tax money went somewhere and could see some results, which we don't.

    Rates are tax. I get nothing. Why are they they same everywhere? The supercity is a serious rort.

    Blame ACT for that one, that was a Rodney Hide special.

    Despite the complaints, we tax fuel less than most of the OECD apparently (https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/owning-a-car/fuel-prices-and-types/how-petrol-prices-are-calculated/)

    Hypothecation of fuel taxes was introduced by Dr Cullen (Labour) from July 2008.

    I know people like to complain, but we are a low tax country by OECD measures. A few tweaks and small increases here and there doesn't change that. Even if we introduced the Green tax and welfare policies, we would still be in the bottom half of the OECD for tax.

    Yep, everyone upset about NZ tax hikes should try living in the UK. Scandinavian-style tax with the state providing comparatively stuff all..

    Lived in the UK for over ten years, experienced that shit show. A big reason I don't want NZ to go down the same path.

    Also, pointing at other countries (like Godder above) saying we aren't as bad as them is such a low bar. We are a small country and need to be innovative as much as possible to maximise what little benefits we have.





  • The controversial ‘selfie' photo was taken with a group of Ardern’s fans during her visit to the university.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122824985/election-2020-david-seymour-criticises-jacinda-arderns-lack-of-social-distancing-in-selfie-while-on-the-campaign-trail



  • @taniwharugby One rule for the ruling classes....



  • @Kirwan it's outside Auckland, under a hundy, all good!



  • Let's kick employers while they're down, they can afford it....



  • @canefan Jesus Christ! Wtf this along with increase to minimum wage. Insanity



  • @Rembrandt said in NZ Politics:

    @canefan Jesus Christ! Wtf this along with increase to minimum wage. Insanity

    They clearly feel they can't lose and are slipping a few extra things in



  • @Kirwan said in NZ Politics:

    @taniwharugby One rule for the ruling classes....

    Not a great look after imposing the strictest lockdowns on the planet. Is it a serious virus or isn't it?



  • The 10 days sick leave is an E Tu policy remit I believe. The $20 minimum wage by April 2021 is current policy agreed with NZ First, so not much of an announcement.



  • @Godder said in NZ Politics:

    The 10 days sick leave is an E Tu policy remit I believe. The $20 minimum wage by April 2021 is current policy agreed with NZ First, so not much of an announcement.

    How useful is a minimum wage? Is it just inflationary or does it actually help prevent exploitation? I live in Switzerland, where everyone is well paid, and interestingly there is no legal minimum wage. I’ve now lived in NZ, Australia, France, Ireland and Switzerland, and the latter is by far and away the best run country.



  • @Billy-Tell said in NZ Politics:

    @Godder said in NZ Politics:

    The 10 days sick leave is an E Tu policy remit I believe. The $20 minimum wage by April 2021 is current policy agreed with NZ First, so not much of an announcement.

    How useful is a minimum wage? Is it just inflationary or does it actually help prevent exploitation? I live in Switzerland, where everyone is well paid, and interestingly there is no legal minimum wage. I’ve now lived in NZ, Australia, France, Ireland and Switzerland, and the latter is by far and away the best run country.

    Depends on the country I guess. A lot of Scandinavian countries also have no legal minimum wage, but there are union-negotiated awards which do the same job.

    The original purpose of the minimum wage was to allow a man to support a family on one income with enough surplus to buy a house and enough spare time to keep a vegetable garden. Has been a long time since that was possible on the minimum wage...



  • @Godder the price of vege's is truly a disgrace

    NZ Business pre-election survey had something like 68% of companies in favour of paying the Living Wage so a rise to the minimum wage doesn't seem out of step with business sentiment

    @Billy-Tell agree about Switzerland - unless you want to wash your car on a Sunday of course or disagree with the mandatory irony by-pass



  • @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    @Godder the price of vege's is truly a disgrace

    NZ Business pre-election survey had something like 68% of companies in favour of paying the Living Wage so a rise to the minimum wage doesn't seem out of step with business sentiment

    @Billy-Tell agree about Switzerland - unless you want to wash your car on a Sunday of course or disagree with the mandatory irony by-pass

    Huh?



  • @booboo said in NZ Politics:

    @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    @Godder the price of vege's is truly a disgrace

    NZ Business pre-election survey had something like 68% of companies in favour of paying the Living Wage so a rise to the minimum wage doesn't seem out of step with business sentiment

    @Billy-Tell agree about Switzerland - unless you want to wash your car on a Sunday of course or disagree with the mandatory irony by-pass

    Huh?

    command and control: https://www.newlyswissed.com/11-weird-swiss-laws/

    Naturally, you may not wash your car on a Sunday.
    Washing a car on Sunday in a car-wash is no problem. In fact, some car washes are so remote that nobody would even notice!

    However, it becomes a problem when someone decides to wash a car in their driveway - on a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday... You get the picture! Local Swiss laws prohibit the use of a power washer altogether, and there is concern that the detergent would pollute the ground water and thus the environment.



  • @booboo illegal in some cantons - Holy Day meant solely for contemplating how sinful you are. Billy Tell is right about how well organised it is but fuck the Fun Police come out in force. Laid back / spontaneous really aren't the thing.



  • I’m not encouraged by National’s dropping the ball on something as simple as arithmetic. if their point of difference is economic competence they’ve got a weird way of demonstrating it. It’s a bit scary that our choices for running the country’s Treasury are between two parties who don’t seem to understand the importance of precision.

    Still, it’s only money and I’ll be dead long before they pay off this debt.

    Shame about your guys kids though.



  • @JC said in NZ Politics:

    I’m not encouraged by National’s dropping the ball on something as simple as arithmetic.

    They're not going to get into power, but they could at least make Labour work for it. Reminds me of the Cunliffe/Goff years - opposition is really really tough. Incumbency is very powerful, and having the apparatus of the state around helps even further.

    in other muppetry, it seems Treasury usually second someone into the Opposition leader's office (which makes a lot of sense) ... but Simon Bridges turned it down, so they are flying solo. I have little to no sympathy.

    Underpinning all of this, is no one seems to want to talk about how they are actually going to get our economy moving again. as @JC said, sorry about our kids paying for this for a decade or more. It's damn scary.



  • @JC Given their strategy is the strength of their team it's a minor miracle they are polling above the 5% threshold.

    Robertson really does love trucking out the "Wouldn't have happened under Key or English" line to contrast the true strength of the current team vis-a-vis that of 08-17. Like comparing Henry's Blues to Umaga's.



  • @nzzp TBF the greens are putting out a lot of policy- its just that they're irrelevant. ACT has a plan too. Cut welfare by 38 Billion and give a 38 Billion tax cut.

    The open, transparent, caring and transformational government of Adern don't give two fucks about anything other than winning an election at which they have already promised three years of doing fuck all.

    COVID really has been a godsend for Labour. If this election was being fought on how well they have delivered on their 2017 campaign promises Soimon would already be redecorating the ninth floor



  • @dogmeat said in NZ Politics:

    COVID really has been a godsend for Labour. If this election was being fought on how well they have delivered on their 2017 campaign promises Soimon would already be redecorating the ninth floor

    As Harold MacMillan said, Events, dear boy, events.

    We've had a brutal few years as a country, but they have played straight into the strengths of Labour. Caring, kind and emotional, compared ot the actual hard business of delivery (even with the Ministries to help). Christchurch Mosque, White Island and then Covid. Looks like we're going to be getting three years of command economy and tax mindsets, which I doubt are likely to drive economic performance.

    before we get all doom and gloom, and aside from Covid, remember that economic growth has some downsides, doesn't help everyone equally, but seems to be the way to lift countries out of poverty.

    https://ourworldindata.org/a-history-of-global-living-conditions-in-5-charts


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