Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc



  • @Number-10 said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    NZR don't need to commission a report - they are aware of the financial status of the provincial unions, because the unions have to file their financial reports (balance sheets etc) every year to them as NZR inspect them to ensure the salary cap has not been breached.

    I'm being somewhat flippant. The report that came out around 2009 pretty clearly spelled out a 14 team top flight was not viable and identified the best candidates to drop. The economic reality in the decade since has only made the situation worse. While other unions made radical improvements in the past decade like BOP & Tasman it is really disappointing to see Northland and Southland cap in hand yet again. Ditto Harbour.



  • @rotated said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    I'm being somewhat flippant. The report that came out around 2009 pretty clearly spelled out a 14 team top flight was not viable and identified the best candidates to drop. The economic reality in the decade since has only made the situation worse. While other unions made radical improvements in the past decade like BOP & Tasman it is really disappointing to see Northland and Southland cap in hand yet again. Ditto Harbour.

    giuven the doctored report you allude to actually recommended Southland to stay up and Northland and Tasman go down, unsure why you would bring it up, AGAIN.



  • @taniwharugby said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    giuven the doctored report you allude to actually recommended Southland to stay up and Northland and Tasman go down, unsure why you would bring it up, AGAIN.

    Because it is for the most part the same franchises again and again. Do we have to do the same song and dance every decade?

    Southland were right on the cusp and on-field performance was weighted heavily and they were in a purple patch. Less so now. Tasman has benefited from systemic changes to the relationship between provinces and franchises.

    I take no pleasure in seeing any union in the mire but if this is a pathway to a coherent 10-12 team top flight then so be it. These provinces still have a place at Heartland level.





  • @rotated said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    @taniwharugby said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    giuven the doctored report you allude to actually recommended Southland to stay up and Northland and Tasman go down, unsure why you would bring it up, AGAIN.

    Because it is for the most part the same franchises again and again. Do we have to do the same song and dance every decade?

    Southland were right on the cusp and on-field performance was weighted heavily and they were in a purple patch. Less so now. Tasman has benefited from systemic changes to the relationship between provinces and franchises.

    I take no pleasure in seeing any union in the mire but if this is a pathway to a coherent 10-12 team top flight then so be it. These provinces still have a place at Heartland level.

    Tasman have benefited also from being a NZRU investment due to population growth and geographical desire for a top tier team to be cemented in. Follow that up with a nice earner from hosting an AB test and they are now set.

    I don't see Northland or Southland being given these earners while Naki and NH have had a hand as well.
    CM usually get the 'game of three halves'. Surprisingly BOP are in the cold.

    In the last 10 years AB tests outside of the 4 main centres

    2010 Taranaki (Ireland)
    2011 Waikato (Japan)
    2012 Waikato (Ireland)
    2013 Taranaki (France) and Waikato (Arg)
    2014 Waikato (England), Hawkes Bay (Arg)
    2015 None
    2016 Waikato (Arg)
    2017 Taranaki (Arg), North Harbour (SA)
    2018 Tasman (Arg)
    2019 Waikato (Tonga)

    So Waikato have been well propped up, Naki were also getting hand. HB, Tasman and NH thrown the odd bone.



  • @Crucial Whangarei and Rotorua hosted a Lions game in 2017 so that should have generated some income. All host unions still need to pay NZR a fee so the larger the stadium the more profit you make.

    I am surprised that NH has financial problems because of their population base.



  • @Bovidae My anecdotal experience is that rugby is almost completely dead on the North Shore now.



  • @Tim

    I was visiting family on the weekend in Long Bay, which was all new for me. A nice area but the demographic isn't exactly "kiwi rugby folk".



  • @Crucial Rotorua has hosted well-attended Maori All Blacks games (v B&I Lions and v Fiji) in recent years.



  • @Bovidae also had 2 x RWC games up here.

    TBH, up until this event, my understanding is NRU had been operating well within thier means, so assuming sponsor $$$ have dried up, I believe they were in the middle of re-negotiating thier gear sponsor too, so that wouldnt have helped.

    'naki have gone from being one of the more flush unions to one in a deep hole.





  • @taniwharugby said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    @Bovidae also had 2 x RWC games up here.

    TBH, up until this event, my understanding is NRU had been operating well within thier means, so assuming sponsor $$$ have dried up, I believe they were in the middle of re-negotiating thier gear sponsor too, so that wouldnt have helped.

    'naki have gone from being one of the more flush unions to one in a deep hole.

    I suspect that RWC games have a different gate arrangement.

    Isn't Naki in trouble due to the stadium problems? On the brink since at least last year?



  • @Crucial said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    @taniwharugby said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    @Bovidae also had 2 x RWC games up here.

    TBH, up until this event, my understanding is NRU had been operating well within thier means, so assuming sponsor $$$ have dried up, I believe they were in the middle of re-negotiating thier gear sponsor too, so that wouldnt have helped.

    'naki have gone from being one of the more flush unions to one in a deep hole.

    I suspect that RWC games have a different gate arrangement.

    Isn't Naki in trouble due to the stadium problems? On the brink since at least last year?

    Yeah, I think that's it.



  • @Crucial yup, I think the oil exploration (cancellation of) has hit the economy there too?

    Yeah I think Jeremy Parkinson walked into that one, first week on the job, hey look your stadium is farked, you wont be able to use half of it for the coming season...which also affected sponsors.



  • @Tim said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    @Crucial said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    @taniwharugby said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    @Bovidae also had 2 x RWC games up here.

    TBH, up until this event, my understanding is NRU had been operating well within thier means, so assuming sponsor $$$ have dried up, I believe they were in the middle of re-negotiating thier gear sponsor too, so that wouldnt have helped.

    'naki have gone from being one of the more flush unions to one in a deep hole.

    I suspect that RWC games have a different gate arrangement.

    Isn't Naki in trouble due to the stadium problems? On the brink since at least last year?

    Yeah, I think that's it.

    Just did some searching and they went from having an $800k surplus from hosting the AB game (which balanced the books) straight to an $800k loss due to having no grandstands.



  • @taniwharugby said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    @Bovidae also had 2 x RWC games up here.

    TBH, up until this event, my understanding is NRU had been operating well within thier means, so assuming sponsor $$$ have dried up, I believe they were in the middle of re-negotiating thier gear sponsor too, so that wouldnt have helped.

    'naki have gone from being one of the more flush unions to one in a deep hole.

    I think the jersey deal was locked in before covid, Palladin surprisingly got the flick, can’t recall which brand they’ve gone with now though.



  • I find this article really annoying because it’s come from a journalist that’s taken free license to implicate both Northland and Southland without doing some serious research ..
    There’s is also someone within the NZRFU leaking info as well who would probably rather not see a Mitre 10 Cup up and running .
    From what I understand there are some factions that would prefer to have an 8 or 10 team competition, I think if we wrote down a few a names ,we would all come up with similar names..
    The most disappointing aspect is, at a time when these unions need to be united , some are looking at saving their own skin.
    I know of one Union that is Super Franchise base that took out a massive loan from the NZRFU last year to prop itself up..How does that work...?
    I know both Northland & Southland are good to go in what ever format the competition takes shape ,
    the players understand The circumstances they find themselves in at this time especially with the staff at the respect unions
    Our good old mate Rob Nichol’s name kept popping up in some of the conversations I have had some today ...

    Have heard some great things about the new CEO for the Blues who is working hard with the 3 unions that make up the franchise, only disappointing aspect is to hear one of them is not playing ball.



  • From NRU

    Kia ora,

    The Northland Rugby Football Union seek to clarify statements made in several news articles and TV items over recent days regarding our participation in the 2020 Mitre 10 Cup.

    Reference in the articles, and the TV news item, to Northland “not being one of the starters” for Mitre 10 Cup is incorrect and misleading. The NRU is, and always has been, committed to participating in a 14 Team Mitre 10 Cup competition as agreed with all other Provincial Unions and previously communicated very clearly to NZ Rugby and our own stakeholder base. The NRU Board and staff were excited and focussed when NZ Rugby confirmed on the 12th May, that a full 14 team Mitre 10 Cup competition would kick off on 11 September. We have accordingly ramped up planning and preparation, that was already in play, to align to the new start date.

    All Provincial Unions understand that their participation is subject to fully understanding the financial impact of doing so and so we eagerly await a resolution to the current negotiations between NZ Rugby, the New Zealand Rugby Players Association and Provincial Unions to provide greater certainty around player costs to align more realistically with what we have been forced to undertake ourselves due to Covid 19. Whilst we have great lines of communication with our local media, NRU has not been approached for comment regarding participation in the competition by the media who published the national articles.

    We are extremely disappointed that Northland has incorrectly identified as a non-starter in the Mitre 10 Cup. Equally this has created concern and distress across our passionate supporter base and confusion in the Mitre 10 Coaching and Player squad which we are at pains to set straight. Even more so at a time like this, inaccurate speculation is unhelpful and an unnecessary distraction as we plan and look forward to the commencement of the community and high performance rugby season.

    Kia rewa, kia runga te Taniwha!

    Nga Mihi

    Cameron Bell  - Chief Executive Officer                          
    Ajit Balasingham - Chairman



  • You never know who to believe "the board has hundred percent confidence in......"



  • @taniwharugby the most disappointing aspect was, many of the players ended up ringing the union to see if they were still on the books as it was news to them.



  • This may be an issue for more NPC teams (and SR teams), who're thinking of signing players who are still contracted to clubs overseas.

    The cost of insuring Liam Squire has erased Tasman's hopes of signing the ex-All Black for its Mitre 10 premiership title defence later this year.
    
    Although contracted to Japanese club NTT Docomo Hurricanes for two seasons, Squire has returned to New Zealand due to the Top League competition being cancelled because of Covid-19.
    
     Recruiting the 23-test loose forward, who has played 47 games for Tasman, would undoubtedly be welcomed by rugby followers at the top of the South Island but Tasman CEO Tony Lewis said he won’t take the field for the Mako because of financial reasons.
    
    “The one thing I do know, as much as the media and public speculates, is that the sheer cost of insuring Liam’s participation in the Mitre 10 Cup in case of injury would make it absolutely impossible for Tasman to afford,’’ Lewis said.
    
    (...)
    
    While Lewis wouldn’t divulge the price for insuring Squire he acknowledged it would be “more than $10,000 - more like tens of thousands’’.
    
     Former All Blacks captain Kieran Read, who is contracted to Japanese club Toyota Verblitz, recently signalled he was keen to play in the Mitre 10 Cup but in these straitened times it may be difficult for a union to cover his insurance fees.
    
    Read was contracted to Counties-Manukau before he relocated to Japan after the World Cup, but played the majority of his provincial career with Canterbury.
    

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/300020744/high-price-puts-kibosh-on-tasman-signing-exall-black-liam-squire





  • A full 13-team Farah Palmer Cup has today been confirmed by New Zealand Rugby (NZR), with the season to kick off in August.
    
    In a move to further delight rugby fans, the country’s best women players will be on show across a nine-week season, set to feature Black Ferns and Black Ferns Sevens stars.
    

    https://www.allblacks.com/news/farah-palmer-cup-to-kick-off-in-2020-as-season-confirmed/



  • @KiwiMurph So no Thursday night games - good.

    An extra game on Sunday probably means a 7:30 pm kickoff like Saturday.



  • @Bovidae it also mentions this "Two of the games on each of those days being played at same time." so i'd suggest that means no Sunday night games.



  • @Bovidae

    A revised format will see teams compete in North and South pools, with seven weeks of round robin, before two weeks of play off matches.
    

    As the South Island has only three women's teams, I assume the teams from the Hurricanes region will join the South pool to make it 6. Canterbury can already book a spot in the semis before playing a game.

    I wonder whether they're going to use the same format in the Mitre 10 Cup, too?



  • @KiwiMurph Good point. The late game on Sunday was 4:35 pm so better to play as many games during the daylight hours in the spring months. Sky will ultimately decide which time slots are used for the double-up games.



  • @Stargazer said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    As the South Island has only three women's teams, I assume the teams from the Hurricanes region will join the South pool to make it 6. Canterbury can already book a spot in the semis before playing a game.

    That would make sense. BOP could be strong if they keep some of the sevens girls who moved to Mt Maunganui.

    I wonder whether they're going to use the same format in the Mitre 10 Cup, too?

    7 round robin games means you have to play a team from your pool twice or have some cross-over games.



  • I find it interesting that Sky have agreed to give up Thursday nights. As I understand, it was quite profitable for them. I wonder if the extra weekend game is the NZRU realising that teams will need the extra revenue at the gate?



  • I really hope that "two games at the same time" doesn't mean that one of these games won't be televised.



  • @Stargazer said in Mitre 10 Cup - news, injuries etc:

    I really hope that "two games at the same time" doesn't mean that one of these games won't be televised.

    There would be an uproar if Sky did that. They can use a pop-up channel or another sports channel to broadcast the other game.



  • Sky have long been the ones championing a reduction to a 10-team NPC. They only want to broadcast five matches a week. More than that and they are throwing money away on outside broadcasts.

    I'd imagine they have been instrumental in this latest schedule. Be interesting what level of coverage the concurrent matches receive.



  • @Wurzel Well if there's any suggestion they won't cover each of the concurrent games live, it's nuts. The only possible way to do that without losing substantial subscription support would be to ensure the game that wasn't covered live was between two small market teams and they'd probably both need to not be a top side. This rules out Tasman for example. Southland vs Northland is absolute fodder for this cause though, as are games between those sides and anyone other than Auckland, BOP, Waikato, Wellington and Canterbury as the largest population bases.


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