Twice in the last 10 minutes Chiefs either bombed a try or Reds scrambling defence was unbelievably good. Sad, but that was an exciting game
Tordah
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@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mencey worth a listen. Talks about Savea penalty
Too long for me to listen to. Care to summarize that specific part? It's the least you can do after winning the cup. Thanks a lot
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Damian Penaud looks like a special needs Stifler from American Pie, his eyes are too close together. Therefore: Will Jordan, despite his performance in the final.
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@MiketheSnow said in 7. 2023 OPENSIDE FLANKER:
Jac Morgan
Bolter I know but was part of everything good about Wales in the RWC
Great on attack and defence
Great composure for a young fella
Future Lions captainDidn't he kick a 50/22 also? Against Fiji or Aussie, methinks
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@Catogrande said in 10. 2023 FIRST FIVE-EIGHTH:
@Tordah said in 10. 2023 FIRST FIVE-EIGHTH:
George Ford for that performance against Argentina alone.
It would have ti be for that performance alone, he's not been given the chance to do much more.
yeah, weird how they just put Farrell in again after Ford did so well, I thought.
Also weird how there was really no consistently great 1st five this whole year, apparently. -
George Ford for that performance against Argentina alone.
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Jamison Gibson-Park has had a pretty good year once again. Not necessarily the best halfback, but certainly among the top tier. Helps Ireland have a good half-pairing despite Jonny "lame duck" Sexton.
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Angus the Bangbus. Angus Bell was decent in the scrum and the best ball playing prop I've seen since... I dunno, anyone who was a really good ball playing prop
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Jonathan Danty from France was pretty good in attack and at the breakdown all year
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I will never forgive him for that non-forward pass (1h30m10s YT time)
Barnes was probably the only person in the world who thought that pass was forward. Awful, awful stuff.
Other than that, he was OK, I guess, always thought of him as a bit overrated. -
With so many punters saying South Africa are deserved winners, I wonder what they would say had Jordie's kick gone over? Terrible team, losing to a 14 men ABs? Springboks performance would have been the exact same, the outcome completely different. In theory, it should not change what you think of the team, but we all know they would be labelled extreme chokers.
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Inspired by this post from sparky https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/6373/rwc-final-all-blacks-v-springboks/2176?_=1698681956589 and a 40 minute commute with nothing else to do.
Sorry for the long post.Regarding refereeing in general, I believe that over the course of time, most calls even out. The Springboks might have been lucky this time around, they weren't as lucky in 2011, judging by the vitriol that was spewed. Anger about decisions is natural, but won't ever change that some will feel aggrieved by certain calls, because refs make mistake and rugby is a very difficult, interpretative game. What constitutes "on one's feet" at the ruck? Certainly, many of the caterpillar players are not holding their weight, although that is a story for another day (refs just get it plain wrong)
But this is about a real problem with the current TMO protocols:
Imagine this...
It is the Champion’s Cup final. Glasgow lead Benneton Treviso by 22-20. Time’s in the red. Benneton has the ball near their own 10 m line, but center Menoncello shrugs of a weak tackle by Matt Fagerson and storms into the Scottish team’s half. The Italians in the crowd go wild. He is brought down by the Warriors’ fullback, Ollie Smith, and Benneton barely keep the ball, as their players come flying in (legally) to secure the ruck. The halfback fumbles the ball a bit but no harm done...
As you watch this half awake on your TV at home, sitting in your dirty underwear, looking ugly as always, BOOMFAH! A door to five different parallel universes opens up. Wow, you can see what happens in all of these, isn’t this exciting.
Universe 1: Benneton halfback Garbisi picks up the ball, passes to the left, the ball goes wide to Monty Ioane who skins Kyle Rowe on the outside, sprints for the corner, steps inside the covering fullback and scores close to the corner. Benetton’s players are ecstatic as the referee, Luke Pearce, blows his whistle for the try. Tommaso Allan lines up the kick, but suddenly we hear the unbearable voice of the TMO, Dick Head, “Check, check – Luke, I want to show you a clear knock-on by green nine as he picks up the ball.”. The crowd goes silent as Pearce makes the square gesture and signals for a TMO check. Everyone can see it on the big screen. Garbisi knocked the ball on. It happened. Pearce is quick to overrule the try. The Scots in the crowd and on the ground are ecstatic, as Pearce pulls up the final whistle, Italians are dejected, the players slump to the floor. Glasgow wins 22-20 and are Champion’s Cup winners in 2024.
Universe 2: Benneton halfback Garbisi picks up the ball, passes to the left, the ball goes wide to Monty Ioane who skins Kyle Rowe on the outside, sprints for the corner, steps inside the covering fullback but is brought down by the retreating Ali Price close to the line. Benetton go through four more phases, as suddenly, Benneton’s Henry Stowers just runs through the Scottish defence and reaches the line with the ball. The Benetton players are ecstatic as the referee, Luke Pearce, blows his whistle for the try. Tommaso Allan lines up the kick, but suddenly we hear the unbearable voice of TMO Dick Head, “Check, check – Luke, I want to show you a clear knock-on by green nine as he picks up the ball.”. The crowd goes silent as Pearce makes the square gesture and signals for a TMO check. Everyone can see it on the big screen. Garbisi knocked the ball on. It happened. Pearce is quick to overrule the try. The Benneton players complain “It’s five phase ago!”. Pearce doesn’t listen. The game is over. The Scots in the crowd and on the ground are ecstatic, as Pearce pulls up the final whistle, Italians are dejected, the players slump to the floor. Glasgow wins 22-20 and are Champion’s Cup winners in 2024.
Universe 3: Benneton halfback Garbisi picks up the ball, passes to the left, the ball goes wide to Monty Ioane who skins Kyle Rowe on the outside, sprints for the corner, steps inside the covering fullback but is brought down by the retreating Ali Price close to the line. Benetton go through four more phases, as suddenly, Benneton’s Henry Stowers just runs through the Scottish defence and reaches the line with the ball. The Benetton players are ecstatic as the referee, Luke Pearce, blows his whistle for the try. Tommaso Allan lines up the kick, but suddenly we hear the unbearable voice of TMO Dick Head, “Check, check – Luke, I want to show you a clear knock-on by green nine as he picks up the ball.”. The crowd goes silent as Pearce makes the square gesture and signals for a TMO check. Everyone can see it on the big screen. Garbisi knocked the ball on. It happened. Pearce asks “Wasn’t this more than 2 phases ago?” – TMO “Yuss, but I just wanted to sh-“ – “Shut up and don’t be annoying. Try’s good then”. The Glasgow players complain “Clear knock on, ref!”. Pearce doesn’t listen. The game is over. The Scots in the crowd and on the ground are dejected, as Pearce pulls up the final whistle, the team from Italy wins, 25-22 and are Champion’s Cup winners in 2024.
Universe 4: Benneton halfback Garbisi picks up the ball, passes to the left, the ball goes wide to Monty Ioane who skins Kyle Rowe on the outside, sprints for the corner, steps inside the covering fullback but is brought down by Ali Price agonizingly close. The Scots regroup. They pass to the right and Henry Stowers rumbles it up and is tackled 10m in front of the goal posts. Garbisi arrives at the ruck quickly, passes it back to his Tommaso Allan who quickly drops a goal – and it shaves the posts and the ref is unsure whether it’s over. Italians are confidently but carefully rejoicing, Scots are slumping to their knees. Pearce asks the TMO, Dick Head for advice, who confirms with an annoying voice that it’s between the posts. A replay of how the drop goal transpired showed Garbisi knocked the ball on in the ruck two phases ago! Pearce blows the final whistle, the Scots in the stadium are furious. Benetton Treviso wins 23-22 and are Champion’s Cup winners in 2024.
Universe 5: Benneton halfback Garbisi picks up the ball, passes to the left, the ball goes wide to Monty Ioane who skins Kyle Rowe on the outside, sprints for the corner, steps inside the covering fullback but is brought down by Ali Price agonizingly close. The Scots regroup. They pass to the right and Benneton No. 8 Henry Stowers rumbles it up and is tackled high 10m in front of the goal posts. The Benetton players cry for a penalty and Pearce awards it. Tommaso Allan points at the posts, it’s an easy kick. As the kicking tee is brought onto the field, the replays show that the Garbisi knocked the ball on at the ruck two phases prior. The Scots complain about it, ref says there’s nothing he can do. Tommaso Allan looks at the post, then at the ball, back at the post, starts, kicks. It’s over. Italians are partying hard. Some Glasgow players are sulking, some are furious and berating the referee. Benetton Treviso wins 23-22 and are Champion’s Cup winners in 2024.
TL;DR: TMO protocols don’t make any sense currently. In the exact same situation, going for a try instead of a dropgoal or playing for a penalty is punished, deterring teams from playing more exciting rugby (unless you consider tries less exciting than waiting 55 seconds for a kick to go between or next to some posts).
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No use complaining about refereeing, you win some, you lose some, and it is easier to remember the whistles that went against you.
The TMO interventions are annoying, though, and getting problematic.
Going back to chalk off tries but not doing the same for penalties and drop goals doesn't make a lick of sense. Foul play interventions are fine in theory, but rugby has far, far too many (coincidental/accidental) collisions with heads, that it tarnishes the spectacle when the TMO is used this way. -
well deserved, especially if you add the snub in 2022.
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@W32 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Beauden blames the ref
Dont put words in his mouth. He spoke well and was asked about a specific instance Barnes got wrong which meant three points for the Boks.
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I think the rebuilding after the 2015 cup was probably way bigger, wasn't it?
Losing McCaw, Kaino, Nonu, Conrad, and probably a few more (sorry), those were probably all World XV starters (anyone who takes O'Driscoll over Conrad has just got it wrong). Now, the locks are going to be hard to replace, but otherwise it isn't looking too bad. -
what a cnut, mate
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The 2019 semi was easier to digest for me, England was awesome in that test. Yesterday's has too many "what ifs"
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@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Machpants said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nostrildamus said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@mariner4life said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
That final play sort of summed it up
DMac somehow breaks the field open. Savea (who was exhausted) wasn't clean, and nor was ALB.I may be alone on this but I would have played DMac a lot earlier.
No, it was clear that the game was crying out for his skill set
If I was to be super critical of the coaches, there was a window with 10 or 11 minutes to go where I thought DMac on for Barrett and the game might open up for us. In hindsight and with the 2nd Boks YC, it probably would’ve.
Beaudy was pretty awful, under the high ball, kicking, decisions etc. I would have put DMac back there at half time
He just went to pieces didn't he? We were lucky he didn't take us out of the running altogether
Only Player ever to score tries in two rwc finals
Reds v Chiefs
RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
14. 2023 RIGHT WINGER
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10. 2023 FIRST FIVE-EIGHTH
10. 2023 FIRST FIVE-EIGHTH
9. 2023 HALFBACK
1. 2023 LOOSE-HEAD PROP
12. 2023 SECOND FIVE-EIGHTH
Wayne Barnes gooone!
RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks
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